He's so full of crap. I'm still waiting for them to remove the ten year plus beta sticker on Autopilot and everything else starting with "Auto*". Autopark, auto wipers et.c.
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
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- Tags
- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd has decision wobble fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd sometimes may not detect train crossings fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
The only thing that can be called end-to-end is when you have a single neural net taking all the sensor input and producing a steering angle and speed output.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
End2End means you input vision (images/video) into a large NN and you directly output control (steering, acceleration/braking). And Elon was very clear in his tweet that he meant vision in and control out. So no, he does not mean "end2end vision". That's not even true end2end.
jeewee3000
Active Member
It is a weird comment from Elon. Once "Full Self Driving" is out of Beta it would imply the software is at version 1.0 or in other words, complete.
As with anything Elon, I would interpret this as: "FSD v12 will no longer carry the "Beta" tag since the car will handle all driving tasks and be about as reliable as other driver assist systems." Driver supervision would still be necessary and no liability by Tesla would be taken.
(Again, compare it to other driver assist systems (except Mercedes L3 on slow highways) -> no company takes liability for use of TAAC or other driver assist systems.)
When the "Beta" tag is removed, it does however raise valid questions regarding the naming scheme of the Tesla driver assist system. (In the past I found this to be an ignorant argument since the terms of service are clear and the Beta label is obvious. But after v12? Tesla might consider a name change.
)I believe this like I believe Elon saying that the Model S/X horn will be moved to the center via software update in November 2021...
Elon saying V12 will not be beta simply means that he is expecting great improvements. Of course, since V12 does not yet exist in a releasable form, such comments should be taken as an expression of optimism that may not accurately describe the end result. Perhaps the plan is for V12 to be fully baked into the production software with elements replacing AP and NOA as well as being instantly available to any FSD subscriber. I certainly would not interpret this as an indication that V12 will be anything beyond an L2 ADAS system.
KArnold
Active Member
A.k.a. - yet another lie. He's a pitiful man.
jeewee3000
Active Member
Saying V12 is not Beta is not lying, he's not saying v12 will be L4.
It's a completely meaningless statement coming from a person with probably the worst track record of anyone in the world in predicting how self driving cars will evolve on insufficient hardware. Why that is is a separate question. I think he's a liar, but others might disagree.
What's a fact is that he's always been completely wrong about FSD timelines, despite being an insider. Draw your own conclusions. I would trust a monkey throwing arrows more than I trust Elon's FSD "predictions".
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BrownOuttaSpec
Active Member
I wonder if there is any relation of v12 beta FSD and v12 version of the Tesla car OS. v11 Car OS was released Christmas holiday time in 2021: Introducing Software V11.0 | Tesla but FSD beta was only on the 10.X build around that time.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
AFAIK, they are not related at all. The car OS and FSD are completely different software. It is just a coincidence if they have the same version number.
I’m sure he’s correct. There is an infinite number of version numbers between 11.4.6 and 12, after all.
Dr know it all doesn't know anything about autonomous vehicles or robotics. He spent a full video on explaining the SAE levels and insisted that Tesla was Level 3. I wouldn't trust anything he says. Like James Douma, he says things that are completely incorrect, but sound resonable if you are new to the area.
If people don't spend any time researching was goes on outside of the Tesla bubble, all you get is propaganda.
Unfortunately outside of the Tesla bubble is nothing but hate. Not a lot of people focus on the tech, most have to give their hateful 2 cents with laughing emojis and false equivalence.
I understand where it spawns from, which is that many believes Tesla make promises or market their software safer than it seems, or that they enable customers to have software that sometimes has problems.
However Tesla scoring almost a perfect score during NCAP AEB teat while all other systems ended up hitting something tells me objectively that other car companies ships even more incomplete software with little complaints from people outside of the bubble. Volvo drive couldn't handle light curves or stopped cars in stop and go traffic and its in customer's hands as well.
I get that there's a lot of BS thrown around about Tesla's system from Tesla Bulls, however many of you guys champions tech (waymo) that will eventually disappear while trashing Tesla. It's Tesla or bust so many you naysayers better get on board. Maybe I am lacking in the tech know how but I understand a balance sheet, earnings, and a viable business model. There are about zero possibilities any of these geo fenced autonomy business can stay in business. It's not rocket science to see their operating expense vs revenue is diverging, not converging.
I can see that Dr. Know It All isn't a reliable source, but James Douma is very impressive as a speaker. Can you think of any examples of stuff that he's gotten wrong? Are we talking "horses have five legs" wrong or "a horse's canter and a lope are not the same speed" wrong?
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Douma spreads a lot of misinformation. And yes they are "horses have 5 legs" type of lies. For example, he stated that lidar point clouds are very low res since they only have like 20 points at 50 ft. That's an outright lie since lidar point clouds have millions of points, are very high resolution, and have ranges over 900 ft.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Disagree. Sure there is some hate from shorts but it is not all hate. There is also a lot of good info and tech outside the Tesla bubble. Unfortunately, many Tesla fans stay inside the Tesla bubble. They only listen to misinformation from guys like Douma, Dr-Know-It-All, Hotz who just repeat the Tesla talking points. That's why so many Tesla fans still believe all kinds of lies and myths about AVs.
You are probably one of the loudest waymo cheerleader on TMC. I sometimes wonder why you don't go to a waymo's forum.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Because I am a Tesla owner and I love my Model 3. That's why I am on TMC. As a Tesla owner, I have every right to post my opinions on a Tesla forum.
Regarding my Waymo posts, I keep them to the Waymo mega thread which is a Waymo forum or sometimes in the general AV progress mega tread, not in the other Tesla threads. Or I post in the Waymo subreddit. So I do keep my Waymo posts to Waymo forums. But apparently, you cannot even post Waymo news in the Waymo thread now, unless it is anti-Waymo.
But this is typical Tesla Bubble: chase away anything that is outside of Tesla or not pro-Tesla.And if you don't like my Waymo posts then stay out of the Waymo mega thread. It's quite simple.
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