Yet another reason why the Dual Chargers option is worth having...

[TexasEV]

Because
a) they're paying for them
b) they want to strengthen the brand
c) they want to get other manufacturers to adopt their connector

Besides: what other BEVs travel far enough to need to stay in a hotel?

A 4th reason is marketing-- the destination gets the HPWC if it's installed in a prominent place. The point is for guests to see Teslas on display charging.

 

[qwk]

Not arguing that the Tesla connector isn't good... I'm just saying that Tesla HPWCs only work with some Teslas (i.e. not Roadsters) and the J1772 type work with all. Why is a 100 amp J1772 "crippled" compared to a 100 amp HPWC???

FYI, the Roadster doesn't work with a J1772 either. One needs an adapter. A 100A J1772 station isn't crippled, but the Frankenplug is. Unless you want two charging ports(one Tesla, one J1772), you can't ever have supercharging speed L3, because that standard doesn't support it. That is the entire reason Tesla went with their own connector, because the others suck so bad.

 

[mknox]

FYI, the Roadster doesn't work with a J1772 either. One needs an adapter. A 100A J1772 station isn't crippled, but the Frankenplug is. Unless you want two charging ports(one Tesla, one J1772), you can't ever have supercharging speed L3, because that standard doesn't support it. That is the entire reason Tesla went with their own connector, because the others suck so bad.

Agree with all of this. But the fact is that Roadster and Model S do have J1772 adapters whereas every other electric vehicle does not have a Tesla to J1772 adapter (that I know of).

And I'm just speaking to the concept of Level 2 destination charging, not DC Fast / Supercharging. Again, I agree that the Tesla plug is a lot more elegant than the CHAdeMO or so-called Frankenplug when you are looking for a combined connector. But there are going to be a lot of EVs out there that use J1772 (either directly or with an adapter) along with lots of Level 2 charging spots. What I am not that happy about is a Level 2 charger that only the Model S can use. Again, kudos to Tesla for getting their product out there and, heck, I drive a Model S so yay for me, but what about everyone else?

Perhaps I'm defending my own decision of recently installing 2 - 100 amp J1772 units in my company's parking lot. I wanted something that Tesla Model S owners could take full advantage of while at the same time allowing pretty much every other EV to utilize as well.

 

[Yorkshire_By_Eck]

Beyond the Supercharger: Teslas Other Charging Network - Corporate Intelligence - WSJ

These public HPWC's (High Powered Wall Connectors) will be appearing at hotels and resorts across the U.S. over the next few years.

It is possible to use a HPWC without Dual Chargers in your Model S, but it will charge at 29MPH instead of 58MPH.

well sorry to be a grumpy Yorkshire man, but I don't really get the 'benefit' !
Now I can only speak for myself when I say, I'm not really in the habit of using a hotel room for the odd 'hour or two' and normally when staying at a hotel - am there for at least 8-10 hours (assuming arriving by 9pm and not leaving before 7am.
I do appreciate that I am far from an expert (including on the hours an American MS owner uses a hotel room for) - but this would still allow to total recharge of an 85kw/h battery.

*Please bear in mind that if I end up being a male prostitute to enable the funding of a MS - I reserve the right to change my opinion

 

[ecarfan]

In Canada, Sun Country Highway donated a ton of high power chargers for free to businesses who would agree to install them and provide charging for free. That program is now over, but yes, others are doing this.

But not other EV manufacturers.

 

[gavine]

Plus, there's nothing to prevent the development of a "reverse" J1772 adapter that allows Volts, Leafs and Sparks to plug into an HPWC.

Maybe Tesla doesn't want Leafs to charge at their stores?

 

[William13]

Please excuse my ignorance but is there currently any car other than a Tesla with dual chargers that can accept AC at 240volts and 80 amps?

 

[rolosrevenge]

well sorry to be a grumpy Yorkshire man, but I don't really get the 'benefit' !
Now I can only speak for myself when I say, I'm not really in the habit of using a hotel room for the odd 'hour or two' and normally when staying at a hotel - am there for at least 8-10 hours (assuming arriving by 9pm and not leaving before 7am.
I do appreciate that I am far from an expert (including on the hours an American MS owner uses a hotel room for) - but this would still allow to total recharge of an 85kw/h battery.

*Please bear in mind that if I end up being a male prostitute to enable the funding of a MS - I reserve the right to change my opinion

Imagine driving 250 miles to get to the hotel. You plug in, then check in and move your stuff into the hotel room. You want to drive around the town for a bit. With the 20 kW chargers, you can get meaningful range in 1/2 an hour so you aren't waiting around at the hotel.

 

[TexasEV]

Agree with all of this. But the fact is that Roadster and Model S do have J1772 adapters whereas every other electric vehicle does not have a Tesla to J1772 adapter (that I know of).
What I am not that happy about is a Level 2 charger that only the Model S can use. Again, kudos to Tesla for getting their product out there and, heck, I drive a Model S so yay for me, but what about everyone else?

What about everyone else? There are two types of problems-- my problems and someone else's problems. This falls in the category of someone else's (not Tesla's) problem.
Nothing is stopping hotels from installing charging equipment for "everyone else" too. But I doubt the number of non-Tesla EVs traveling long distances to hotels is significant enough for them to be interested in doing it.

 

[dsm363]

Where are Nissan and Ford in donating J1772 80A stations to hotels? Until they help out Tesla had no obligation to provide charging for PHEVs and other EVs.

 

[djp]

Please excuse my ignorance but is there currently any car other than a Tesla with dual chargers that can accept AC at 240volts and 80 amps?

Tesla Roadster, which is shut out of Tesla's destination charging program. More importantly, all EVs (including Model S) can charge at high amp J1772 stations, but only Model S can charge at an HPWC. The open standard is a better choice for public destinations.

Where are Nissan and Ford in donating J1772 80A stations to hotels? Until they help out Tesla had no obligation to provide charging for PHEVs and other EVs.

To quote Elon..

[T]he overarching purpose of Tesla Motors (and the reason I am funding the company) is to help expedite the move from a mine-and-burn hydrocarbon economy towards a solar electric economy, which I believe to be the primary, but not exclusive, sustainable solution.

Building an extensive high amp L2 charging network using a proprietary connector instead of an industry standard doesn't help move the world towards this goal. The net result will be fragmented charge networks, confused consumers, and slower EV adoption until the standards wars shake out.

 

[mochouinard]

Helping EV is not having Leaf along a route monopolize all the Charger station charging at 3.3kW or 6.6kW! On a Tesla, when you need to charge, it REALLY because you need to charge ! You deserve the charge

I think it fine that Tesla offer the HWPC at this time. The big job is to bring the 100AMP 220volt in.. Replacing the charger with something else later won't be a problem. But in the mean time, it keep those charger spot clear from anyone who charge lower than 20kW ! Unless you start to see J1772 station that charge only at 100AMP, but I don't think that even possible !

 

[NigelM]

well sorry to be a grumpy Yorkshire man, but I don't really get the 'benefit' !
Now I can only speak for myself when I say, I'm not really in the habit of using a hotel room for the odd 'hour or two' and normally when staying at a hotel - am there for at least 8-10 hours (assuming arriving by 9pm and not leaving before 7am.
I do appreciate that I am far from an expert (including on the hours an American MS owner uses a hotel room for) - but this would still allow to total recharge of an 85kw/h battery.

*Please bear in mind that if I end up being a male prostitute to enable the funding of a MS - I reserve the right to change my opinion

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Oh my, what would Nora say? [/FONT]

 

[mochouinard]

Another example is the Zero S motocycles. It can charge on a 50kW CHAdeMO charger 95% of a 8.5kWh battery in 60minute. I hope you see what wrong here ! It use 8kW of the 50kW. If it did charge at 25kW it might be acceptable... The same as having a Tesla with only a single charger yet using a 100AMP charger port !

 

[TexasEV]

Building an extensive high amp L2 charging network using a proprietary connector instead of an industry standard doesn't help move the world towards this goal. The net result will be fragmented charge networks, confused consumers, and slower EV adoption until the standards wars shake out.

I disagree. Remember the 50's line "What's good for General Motors is good for America"? Now it's "What's good for Tesla is good for EV adoption." Tesla is the only company making EVs that are practical for long distances. If Tesla doesn't succeed, there will be no EV adoption because there will be no compelling EVs to buy. Industry standards are irrelevant when the industry standard car can only go 80 miles on a good day. If donated HPWCs helps Tesla succeed, we should be all for it.

 

[qwk]

The open standard is a better choice for public destinations.

Not if it's inadequate . Using something inferior because it's a standard is incompetent. The standard was implemented by manufacturers who don't even build EV's . That is just stupid.

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Agree with all of this. But the fact is that Roadster and Model S do have J1772 adapters whereas every other electric vehicle does not have a Tesla to J1772 adapter (that I know of).

Other manufacturers incompetence isn't Tesla's or anyone else's problem. Nobody forced them to build mediocre EV's with a handicapped standard. This is what happens when you reward incompetence.

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And I'm just speaking to the concept of Level 2 destination charging, not DC Fast / Supercharging. Again, I agree that the Tesla plug is a lot more elegant than the CHAdeMO or so-called Frankenplug when you are looking for a combined connector.

With Tesla's plug, EVERY level of charging is the same. That's the beauty of it. No need for different connectors.

 

[djp]

Not if it's inadequate . Using something inferior because it's a standard is incompetent. The standard was implemented by manufacturers who don't even build EV's . That is just stupid.

How is J1772 inadequate for 80A L2? It can charge all EVs at all rates, and match the speed of a HPWC. Agreed the standard is useless for L3, but for a L2 station it can do everything an HPWC can do, plus is open to everyone. If I was running a hotel I'd rather accommodate all EV guests rather than limit it to a few.

 

[TexasEV]

How is J1772 inadequate for 80A L2? It can charge all EVs at all rates, and match the speed of a HPWC. Agreed the standard is useless for L3, but for a L2 station it can do everything an HPWC can do, plus is open to everyone. If I was running a hotel I'd rather accommodate all EV guests rather than limit it to a few.

If other EVs could get to your hotel, that might make sense, but the overwhelming majority of hotel stays are by people who live >100 miles away, and no other company makes a car that can go 100 miles without using gasoline. Also, as has been pointed out several times in this thread, nothing would stop a hotel owner from installing one or more J1772 also if he thought it would help business. And no one is forcing the hotel to accept a HPWC. Both Tesla and the hotels must think it's a good business decision or they wouldn't be doing it.

 

[mknox]

Now I can only speak for myself when I say, I'm not really in the habit of using a hotel room for the odd 'hour or two' and normally when staying at a hotel - am there for at least 8-10 hours (assuming arriving by 9pm and not leaving before 7am

It's not uncommon for hotels to have conference centers, and many business meetings are held in them for, say, half a day. I'm probably at one at least once a month for meetings like this.

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Please excuse my ignorance but is there currently any car other than a Tesla with dual chargers that can accept AC at 240volts and 80 amps?

A 100 Amp J1772 EVSE can deliver up to 80 amps continuous. A single charger Model S will only take half of that, and other EVs that use the J1772 plug will take whatever their onboard chargers can take.

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Nothing is stopping hotels from installing charging equipment for "everyone else" too. But I doubt the number of non-Tesla EVs traveling long distances to hotels is significant enough for them to be interested in doing it.

Sure, but as I say above, there are a lot of reasons for being at a hotel other than road tripping. I see lots of Leafs, Volts, and other EVs at hotels all the time.

 

[scottf200]

That's an odd statement... I would say "lots". I've seen several Leafs at hotels I've been to. Case in point... I have an off-site overnight executive meeting in a couple of weeks at a hotel about 40 miles from where I work and about 75 miles from my home. They do happen to have J1772 charging. I can do that in my Tesla without actually needing the charger at the hotel, but if I drove a Leaf, it would be absolutely necessary. I know several Leaf owners who travel to meetings, conferences etc. at hotels, and even for a day, they need charging to get home.

But if you were on a road trip and there was a Plug-in-Prius or Volt there you would not be happy (and you were queued behind a couple more of them).

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well sorry to be a grumpy Yorkshire man, but I don't really get the 'benefit' !
Now I can only speak for myself when I say, I'm not really in the habit of using a hotel room for the odd 'hour or two' and normally when staying at a hotel - am there for at least 8-10 hours (assuming arriving by 9pm and not leaving before 7am.
I do appreciate that I am far from an expert (including on the hours an American MS owner uses a hotel room for) - but this would still allow to total recharge of an 85kw/h battery.
*Please bear in mind that if I end up being a male prostitute to enable the funding of a MS - I reserve the right to change my opinion

Well it is not just about *1* Tesla owner charging over night for 8-10 hours. It could easily be about multiple. So some coordination around dinner, evening out, before departure in the a.m. A valet could move cars if necessary and would be tipped handsomely.