Will autopilot avoid police citations?

[UserAnon99]

Your friend sounds somewhat thoughtless / dangerous and I say this as someone who drives quite fast, but in a controlled manner.

 

[dgatwood]

It's going to be a very long time before the car understands these signs:

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It's going to be a long time before most people understand those, too.

 

[drtimhill]

Of course, technically I'm talking about FSD, not Autopilot; but it's another example of what you've pointed out: Teslas can read only a handful of the important traffic signs at the moment. Granted, they can read the most common ones, but many of the ones they can't read are really quite important.

.... and that's why its beta

 

[KimDicus2003]

The other day I was testing FSD beta and the car came up to an intersection with a "no turn on red" sign and a red light, with the navigation set to a destination that required a right turn. The car stopped and then started to move forward, with the light still red. I hit the brake before the car moved more than a few inches, but I'm confident it would have made that right-on-red turn even though it was clearly marked as illegal at that point.

Of course, technically I'm talking about FSD, not Autopilot; but it's another example of what you've pointed out: Teslas can read only a handful of the important traffic signs at the moment. Granted, they can read the most common ones, but many of the ones they can't read are really quite important.

The idea that AI can drive humans is a fancy long idea that will one day become reality after more work. We drive not only with vision. We drive with our overall sense of our physical surroundings as communicated to us through all our senses whilst seated inside the vehicle body. These senses include what we hear, what we feel (yaw and all), what we perceive or anticipate as the mood or likely behaviors of other drivers. For example, I would pay particular attention to a car parked at the curb when I noticed slight turning movement of its front wheels or a driver who keeps changing lanes on a highway. In order for AI to reach a level of driving to drive me somewhere in confidence, it will take a bit more work. AI can assist a driver and take pressure off a driver and that should be the primary objective of AI for now. To test for “full self driving” now on a production car is somewhat premature. At best it adds more stress to driving than a human driver doing most of the work herself.

 

[drtimhill]

To test for “full self driving” now on a production car is somewhat premature. At best it adds more stress to driving than a human driver doing most of the work herself.

Not sure when you think the right time is, then. Perhaps after early work has been done on the basic vision systems, and building the necessary test frameworks, AI training system etc. Which. of course, is what Tesla are doing. Your argument seems to be "we can't do X until we have done Y, so there is no point in doing Y at the present time." ?

 

[drtimhill]

The idea that AI can drive humans is a fancy long idea that will one day become reality after more work. We drive not only with vision. We drive with our overall sense of our physical surroundings as communicated to us through all our senses whilst seated inside the vehicle body. These senses include what we hear, what we feel (yaw and all), what we perceive or anticipate as the mood or likely behaviors of other drivers. For example, I would pay particular attention to a car parked at the curb when I noticed slight turning movement of its front wheels or a driver who keeps changing lanes on a highway. In order for AI to reach a level of driving to drive me somewhere in confidence, it will take a bit more work. AI can assist a driver and take pressure off a driver and that should be the primary objective of AI for now. To test for “full self driving” now on a production car is somewhat premature. At best it adds more stress to driving than a human driver doing most of the work herself.

Partly I agree with this, but (a) while you paying attention to that dubious driver, you take your attention off other aspects of driving. An AI system can do ALL these things at once. (b) the car already uses other sensors, including those that humans dont have access to, including accelerometers, detailed lane maps of upcoming intersections, the ability to see 360 degrees at all times, the ability to see equally well in all directions (no foveal vision) etc.

 

[Dewg]

Partly I agree with this, but (a) while you paying attention to that dubious driver, you take your attention off other aspects of driving. An AI system can do ALL these things at once. (b) the car already uses other sensors, including those that humans dont have access to, including accelerometers, detailed lane maps of upcoming intersections, the ability to see 360 degrees at all times, the ability to see equally well in all directions (no foveal vision) etc.

I'll add that AI should (emphasis on should) be able to react much faster than a human, so while you're right that it can't anticipate like a human can, it can react faster than we can.

 

[KimDicus2003]

Partly I agree with this, but (a) while you paying attention to that dubious driver, you take your attention off other aspects of driving. An AI system can do ALL these things at once. (b) the car already uses other sensors, including those that humans dont have access to, including accelerometers, detailed lane maps of upcoming intersections, the ability to see 360 degrees at all times, the ability to see equally well in all directions (no foveal vision) etc.

I agree to what you have said. AI and sensors can perform certain functions and calculations at superhuman speed. AI and sensors only process some of the data that a human mind processes which limits its current capabilities. This is evident from its inability to leave beta stage.

 

[KimDicus2003]

I'll add that AI should (emphasis on should) be able to react much faster than a human, so while you're right that it can't anticipate like a human can, it can react faster than we can.

I agree about its reaction speed and ability to concentrate are better than human. But if it is currently unable to process certain critical information which a human mind instinctively processes when driving, it simply cannot react to the information. AI may process and react to some information that human cannot process. But whether that is sufficient to make it a better driver than an average human is far from clear. If it were clear, FSD would have left beta.

 

[Dewg]

I agree about its reaction speed and ability to concentrate are better than human. But if it is currently unable to process certain critical information which a human mind instinctively processes when driving, it simply cannot react to the information. AI may process and react to some information that human cannot process. But whether that is sufficient to make it a better driver than an average human is far from clear. If it were clear, FSD would have left beta.

I'm afraid you'll be disappointed with ADAS and AVs. Human intuition is beyond computers ability, and will be for quite some time. That feeling you get when you watch the guy next to you and just know he's going to try to cut you off isn't possible with current NNs. What the computer is good at is observing the world as it is and reacting to it, quickly.

The computer sees a motorcycle parked perpendicular to the curb and guesses it might be readying to make a move into traffic, so it slows down. Is that simply a reaction to an observation?

I'm personally fine with computer reaction time, as human intuition and gut feelings are sometimes wrong, which makes life interesting, but also causes accidents.

 

[drtimhill]

I agree to what you have said. AI and sensors can perform certain functions and calculations at superhuman speed. AI and sensors only process some of the data that a human mind processes which limits its current capabilities. This is evident from its inability to leave beta stage.

I think that has less to do with the available data to the AI, and more to do with training the AI on how to use that data (and the non-AI parts about how to act on that data).

 

[LadyOnikara]

This just happened to me a couple days ago again. The truck speed limit was 55 and it was 65 for everyone else, yet my Tesla slowed to 55mph. You'd think by now the supposed smart people at Tesla would have fixed this already.

My M3 does that for one particular truck sign on a highway I drive all the time. Hasn't done it with any other truck sign so far. The speed limit for cars is 55 and after seeing the truck sign it switches to 45. Casper has been told some stories by our GMC pickup I guess.

 

[Resist]

My M3 does that for one particular truck sign on a highway I drive all the time. Hasn't done it with any other truck sign so far. The speed limit for cars is 55 and after seeing the truck sign it switches to 45. Casper has been told some stories by our GMC pickup I guess.

Well mine does this at every truck speed sign, even slows for construction before even seeing the sign so I assume it's getting that information from GPS data.

 

[Midnightsun]

Your friend is obviously lacking basic common sense. The act and the explanation of why he did it proves this without a doubt. Something is amiss in the brain cells if you ask me.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Because you have common sense, while others read a speed limit sign and don't seem to understand what "Speed Limit" means. lol

Yes, as believed by Si on Duck Dynasty. He says "that sign is just a suggestion"