Wh/km (or mi) / range grossly mis-advertised, if not fraudulent... srsly.

[White_Walker]

EPA rates the car at 300wh/mi and yet the EPA rated range is 315 miles w 82kwh battery?

300wh x 315 miles = 94.5 kWh battery
260wh x 315 miles = 82 kWh battery

Sounds fishy to me....however I did show 225 wh/mi during a fairly flat 17 mile commute mostly highway at 75+ mph with about 1 mile of street driving.

I'd be curious to see real world lifetime estimates from the M3P by slow drivers.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

If you all really want to laugh, have a look at the International-region WLTP range numbers

 

[SageBrush]

EPA rates the car at 300wh/mi and yet the EPA rated range is 315 miles w 82kwh battery?

300wh x 315 miles = 94.5 kWh battery
260wh x 315 miles = 82 kWh battery

Sounds fishy to me

EPA Wh/mile includes charging losses, which are not included in range calcs. Nothing fishy here, just different calculations.

 

[archanfel]

My RWD model Y (60kwh LFP 394km EPA) hasn't experienced a winter yet, but here is my experience after about 2500km in a unusually cool summer:

1. Overall, on board computer is telling me I am doing 120wh/km, translating to 500km.
2. Teslamate says I am doing 132wh/km, translating to 455km.
3. At 35C (presumably AC was on), I was doing 266wh/km, twice as bad as my average.
4. In my only long distance travel, navigation had to constantly increase the amount of the battery it thought I would have left. Ended up with 132wh/km over 290km. Due to heavy traffic, I was only able to do 55km/h overall though.

 

[Im_Butters]

My RWD model Y (60kwh LFP 394km EPA) hasn't experienced a winter yet, but here is my experience after about 2500km in a unusually cool summer:

1. Overall, on board computer is telling me I am doing 120wh/km, translating to 500km.
2. Teslamate says I am doing 132wh/km, translating to 455km.
3. At 35C (presumably AC was on), I was doing 266wh/km, twice as bad as my average.
4. In my only long distance travel, navigation had to constantly increase the amount of the battery it thought I would have left. Ended up with 132wh/km over 290km. Due to heavy traffic, I was only able to do 55km/h overall though.

I got my MY LR November and I have an EPA of 460km on 20" induction. Like OP, I'm getting terrible range and temps have been hovering around 0 to -3 degC. My lifetime efficiency is 185wh/km (296wh/mile), which as been aweful. Like OP, I'm averaging maybe 200km but thats from 80%-20%.

I'm also doing short trips(10km/day) so that could also explain the poor efficiency. I plan on doing a winter road trip to see what numbers I can get. Hopefully my range increases in the summer...

 

[voldar]

I'm also doing short trips(10km/day) so that could also explain the poor efficiency.

Short trips definitely impact the efficiency you see. If you don't precondition, it may be even less.
I don't have a Model Y but a Model 3 LR AWD. This is the kind of efficiency you can expect from your MY in around 5 to 9 C temperatures. In that thread you also will find what to expect on the same route during summer.

Somewhat cold weather :
- 268.4 miles for 76 kWh on winter tires at an average speed of 65 mph in temperatures between 41 and 50 F, HVAC 70 F Auto.
Hot weather :
- 260 miles for 64 kWh on OEM tires at an average speed of 65 mph in temperatures of 82 and 84 F, HVAC 70 F Auto

 

[Bouba]

I get the EPA figure in my daily driving....but a long hot summer using loads of air conditioning while only ever doing short trips because of the holiday traffic really affect my consumption....nevertheless I usually have it back to EPA rating in my total average consumption by the end of a mild winter

 

[GBMaryland]

I got my MY LR November and I have an EPA of 460km on 20" induction. Like OP, I'm getting terrible range and temps have been hovering around 0 to -3 degC. My lifetime efficiency is 185wh/km (296wh/mile)…

I feel like quoting money python “ I used to dream about having a” 296wh/mile efficiency…

I currently get around 330wh/mile

 

[ZenRockGarden]

I feel like quoting money python “ I used to dream about having a” 296wh/mile efficiency…

I currently get around 330wh/mile

Yeah, short trips in cold temps without pre-heating car while still plugged in are terrible for EV efficiency.

The counter case would be something like constant stop-and-go-traffic on a hot day which is gonna get you terrible mileage in a gas car.

 

[sleepydoc]

Yeah, short trips in cold temps without pre-heating car while still plugged in are terrible for EV efficiency.

The counter case would be something like constant stop-and-go-traffic on a hot day which is gonna get you terrible mileage in a gas car.

short trips in cold temps are terrible for efficiency in any car. You don't want to know what kind of milage our 2011 Odyssey gets driving 10 min to the grocery store in January.

 

[SageBrush]

Yeah, short trips in cold temps without pre-heating car while still plugged in are terrible for EV efficiency.

But it would be rare person who cares, because it is *a short trip*
The important point for people new to EVs to grasp is that winter efficiency on a short errand run is in no way similar to the efficiency a Tesla gets during a long winter trip with multiple Supercharger stops

 

[ZenRockGarden]

But it would be rare person who cares, because it is *a short trip*
The important point for people new to EVs to grasp is that winter efficiency on a short errand run is in no way similar to the efficiency a Tesla gets during a long winter trip with multiple Supercharger stops

I think people get upset because it doesn't match their existing intuition.

Electric cars are in many ways the inverse of existing gas powered ones. With gas the heat is free, idling is expensive, and the engine is so inefficient that you're carrying an enormous load of fuel that can ignore other added loads on the system. Electric cars are almost exactly the reverse.

 

[SageBrush]

I think people get upset because it doesn't match their existing intuition.

Electric cars are in many ways the inverse of existing gas powered ones. With gas the heat is free, idling is expensive, and the engine is so inefficient that you're carrying an enormous load of fuel that can ignore other added loads on the system. Electric cars are almost exactly the reverse.

There is something to this, but in a Tesla on a long trip that requires multiple Supercharger stops the heating is **mostly** free too, because the car uses heat accumulated in the battery during charging for creature comfort.

 

[Supcom]

There is something to this, but in a Tesla on a long trip that requires multiple Supercharger stops the heating is **mostly** free too, because the car uses heat accumulated in the battery during charging for creature comfort.

Newer Teslas scavenge waste heat from many sources, including the battery, drive motors, fan motors, etc. There are about 13 sources as I recall, including the ambient air using the heat pump. Much of ths can be considered free since it is inescapable energy loss inherent in moving the car down the road. But its not really free since all but the ambient air heat comes from the battery.

There may be some excess heat from the battery from supercharging, but, once again, it's not truly free since you are paying for the supercharger energy. Unless, of course, you have unlimited free supercharging!

WeberAuto has a nice presentation on this. Rather fascinating how much thought Tesla put into the system.

 

[SageBrush]

There may be some excess heat from the battery from supercharging, but, once again, it's not truly free

Not "may," -- there is a lot. The packs heat up close to 60C during Supercharging, specific energy is around 850J/Kg*K and pack weighs somewhere around 10 Kg/KWh. Presuming a 30Kelvin rise in pack temperature and subsequent release, that is about 5 kWh of heat admixed with ambient air that is then run though a heat pump

"Free," as in not reducing range. The same as an ICE

 

[voldar]

There may be some excess heat from the battery from supercharging, but, once again, it's not truly free since you are paying for the supercharger energy.

It's in the same way free as the heat in the ICEV. The EV components have also heat loses and Tesla use this heat where it is needed.

 

[sleepydoc]

Ultimately, all the energy used in any car gets dissipated as heat. With an EV there is just a lot less.

 

[brainhouston]

... and the engine is so inefficient that you're carrying an enormous load of fuel that can ignore other added loads on the system. Electric cars are almost exactly the reverse.

ehhh... no (unless i miss understood u, that makes no sense...)

15-20gal of regular gas (average sedans) is 90-120 lbs, negligible compared to weight of the car. On top of that, as u burn gas ur weight decreases,
Teslas HV packs are ~1000 lbs n weight the same at 100 or 0 %...

EVs are totally different beasts...

 

[ZenRockGarden]

ehhh... no (unless i miss understood u, that makes no sense...)

15-20gal of regular gas (average sedans) is 90-120 lbs, negligible compared to weight of the car. On top of that, as u burn gas ur weight decreases,
Teslas HV packs are ~1000 lbs n weight the same at 100 or 0 %...

EVs are totally different beasts...

By "load" I was referring to the energy content, not mass. 20 gallons of gasoline has the energy of around a 1000 kWh battery pack.

 

[AAKEE]

There may be some excess heat from the battery from supercharging, but, once again, it's not truly free since you are paying for the supercharger energy.

It is free in the aspect that that energy was already lost to heat losses anyway.
If you do not steal it back with a heatpump it is lost forever. And then you also would need to use electric energy from the battery instead.