I thought the wheel and tire sizes are identical front-to-back, and therefore the tires could be swapped front-to-back without dismounting them from the rims - unlike side-to-side rotation. In that case rotation could be done by Ranger service...?
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I thought the wheel and tire sizes are identical front-to-back, and therefore the tires could be swapped front-to-back without dismounting them from the rims - unlike side-to-side rotation. In that case rotation could be done by Ranger service...?
rogbmw
Member
George - thank you for the in-depth discription. Many manufacturers include "maintenance" for a period of time, but manytimes that maintenance does not include what many enthusiasts would regard as "timely".
Regarding maintenance - I think that Tesla is justified in saying that if the maintenance is not performed by a "Tesla Certified" technician, then it would not qualify as routing maintenance. We should remember that servicing a Tesla will be differrent than pulling in for an oil and filter change at the local repair shop, or changing the oil and filter in one's driveway and keeping receipts.
George's reply, and Tesla's dedication to fully support a complex vehicle such as the Model S further reinforces my decision to purchase this car.
Regarding maintenance - I think that Tesla is justified in saying that if the maintenance is not performed by a "Tesla Certified" technician, then it would not qualify as routing maintenance. We should remember that servicing a Tesla will be differrent than pulling in for an oil and filter change at the local repair shop, or changing the oil and filter in one's driveway and keeping receipts.
George's reply, and Tesla's dedication to fully support a complex vehicle such as the Model S further reinforces my decision to purchase this car.
Hybrids all went through this same phase, so perhaps as an early hybrid adopter I'm more inclined to "just roll with it" with the Model S. At this time it is a realistic impracticality to do one's own warranty work and there are no independent shops that will have the proper equiptment or specs to do it.
While I sincerely appreciate GeorgeB's post, I think he somewhat overstates the "voiding the warranty" bit. It simply doesn't work that way by federal law..if you have the mandated work done (by yourself or anyone else) then it can't be voided and they can only void the warranty for items that are directly related to the issues involved. IOW, if you don't change your brake pads, but then the PEM goes out, they can't void the warranty on the PEM b/c of your neglect of the brakes.
Like many here I'd LOVE for the maintenence cost to be much lower and more consistent with the paradigm of "EVs require less maintenence than conventional cars"--but for the time being I think we're seeing new and technical changes that will require close and careful monitoring. I also feel like that the numbers may well balance out over time. A brake job isn't cheap and while I may not need one if I hypermile, you Perf guys who like to show off the cornering all the time may well go through a set a year! The comprehensiveness of the coverage is outstanding and practically unheard of. Replacing one set of Xenon headlamps will make up the cost of the service plan for at least 2 years.
The reports of the parts changed and upgraded on the Roadster as well as the outstanding thoroughness of the inspections and such give me confidence that I'll be getting my money's worth and I'll gladly pay for the 4 year package and the extended package (most likely) once it's available.
That clarifies quite a bit, but basically confirms what others have stated. I dont know why emphasis is being placed on brakes because I havent seen ANY car not used for constant racing that needs brakes before 50k miles. GB's post confirms the service plan is a much needed revenue generator for the service centers because $600 every 12.5 k miles is VERY excessive for just keeping an eye on brakes, lightbulbs, etc. Tesla will have to find out the hard way as most sensible people are not going to go for the "EV's require very little maintenance" followed by "$600 every 12.5k miler to maintain our cars". The towing is useless for most as its only covered 50 miles from home, and onless you have a base pack, wandering over 50 miles from home is going to happen pretty frequently at least for most people.
Anyway, its pointless griping about this as it seems its going to stick at least until supply exceeds demand, or somebody who doesnt have the service done goes in for a battery warranty issue and is told "your battery warranty is void because you didnt spend $600 every 12.5k miles to keep an eye on your brakes, windshield wipers, and light bulbs". Lol.
Anyway, its pointless griping about this as it seems its going to stick at least until supply exceeds demand, or somebody who doesnt have the service done goes in for a battery warranty issue and is told "your battery warranty is void because you didnt spend $600 every 12.5k miles to keep an eye on your brakes, windshield wipers, and light bulbs". Lol.
My Ranger just serviced the brakes on my Roadster during my 2nd annual service. He didn't replace anything, but he did more than just inspect. He removed the pads and sandpapered them to remove any glazing, and he lubricated the calipers with copper anti-seize.
mnx
2018 M3P
Re: Brakes If you know anyone who has delivered pizzas, you'll know they go through brakes pretty quick! I would think taxis need frequent brake service as well.
On a separate note, my BMW is predicting it will need the rear pads replaced @ ~50,000km. (425 ftlbs of torque + RWD = traction control light blinking a lot)
Definately doesnt sound like its out of necessity unless the brakes on the Roadster are underdesigned which by reading some crash/near crash posts here may be the case. No other decent vehicle on the planet has this done in the second year of ownership.
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Does your BMW have regen? Lets be sensible and fair here, not just a wool on eyes fanboy. Unless the car is used for severe duty, or the brakes are undersized for the vehicle, there will be no need to worry about them in the first 50k miles. Even if somehow you do wear them and get into the calipers, the fair thing to do is not replace them under warranty. How can a manufacturer void an entire warranty because of a brake issue? They cant.
Folks, this is 2.0 powertrain shipping on a 1.0 everything else. You *want* this thing looked at every year from top to bottom with a fine-toothed comb.
Speaking as someone who's driven BMW's for 13 years, Tesla's coverage sounds good. And if they deliver significant new features over time, the coverage sound great.
FYI - my wife's Volvo XC90 V8 had both brake pads and rotors replaced at <36 K miles (2 years). They were nice and covered it under warranty but they didn't have to.
The Bmw's Lexuses and MB cars all have oil/filter changes to deal with when they go in for service. Thats why the cost is comparable. If you only had to go in for a brake check and windshield washer top off, do you honestly think that they could get away with charging anywhere close to what they do? Lets be realistic here.
George, I appreciate your response to our wildly popular thread. While it answers a lot of questions (without all the disclaimers) it still doesn't quite give me all the warm and fuzzies. When can we expect cost and details about extending the service and WARRANTY beyond 4yr/50K miles to 8year / 100K miles? Since the packs are warranted for 8years, we now know that needs to come with a disclaimer *only valid if extended service and warranty plan is purchased beyond 4yr/50k, at a price of $???
Okay, we were all expected a connectivity plan sooner or later, so when are details around these plans going to be announced? What are the plans for 4G/LTE upgrade ability/cost/timeline?
Okay, we were all expected a connectivity plan sooner or later, so when are details around these plans going to be announced? What are the plans for 4G/LTE upgrade ability/cost/timeline?
I agree. I'm not happy that a service agreement is "forced" down our throats on a 60-100k car. Service and warranty are two separate matters. Voiding the warranty requires proving that a specific service was not done and NOT automatically just because the service plan was not paid for! I'm not happy about this. I should be able to change my own bulbs, rotate my own tires, change my own fluids or have a preferred mechanic to do this without jeopardizing the warranty - we're not talking about messing with the batteries or electric motor here!
Somehow I think this may not even be legal - Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act
Not happy. imho tesla messed up here.
mnx
2018 M3P
Of course for gentle driving there is no need to worry about them, however an annual inspection is a great idea. Take my 3 year old Mazda 3 for example... One of the rear calipers was seizing leaving the rear brakes stuck on. The pads were shot by the time I took it in, they covered everything under warranty. However if the calipers were lubed regularly they never would have siezed in the first place. The preventative maintenance that Tesla did on doug's roadster leaves him with a safer car to drive and helps keep the overall maintenance costs down...
Vger
Active Member
GeorgeB, I hope Elon knows you are worth your weight in gold! I have owned Audi, Volvo, Mercedes, Acura, and Ferrari, just to mention the "good" ones. I have never been taken care of as well as I have by Tesla. I have never been surprised and delighted by so much transparency, good faith, creativity and good humour as by you, your colleagues and your team. Ownership Experience is not just a catch-phrase. Those who have not yet owned a Tesla and been part this ownership community cannot quite imagine how much better it is to be treated not as a customer, but as an owner. Tesla understands that they are recruiting partners in a movement to transform personal transportation. You cannot do that arms-length. A "certain computer company" understood that, and look where is has got them! Stay true to these ideals, and Tesla will triumph not only as a company, but as a positive force in the human community-- own THAT!
Tesla requires a "Tesla Certified mechanic" on servicing to maintain warranty. Just like every single other car I've ever owned. The difference being established manufacturers have lots of folks with certification, including independent shops, and that's not the case with Tesla (yet, maybe in a few years).
Maybe, but I don't think it's legal to require that either. The law states you can even perform regular maintenance yourself. Again, personally I'll be bringing my car to Tesla.
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I don't believe that's true for every single other car you've owned.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt192.shtm
That pretty much supports what I said. You don't have to have it done by Tesla, just anyone qualified (usually a certification I suppose) though it sounds like the burden is on Tesla to prove it wasn't done properly if there's an issue. If you can find someone qualified to do the maintenance on the battery, engine, PEM and such then go for it.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Amen! GeorgeB, while Elon gets to be Iron Man, Rocket Man, etc., you are our resident avuncular rock star! Rock on!
The only gripe that I had with the service plans and the service model was the price itself (I was hoping for something in the $300/year range) but, given all that is covered - including wheel alignment which can easily cost $150-$200 when done right - I'm beginning to come around and be a believer in this whole idea. Yes, I might end up doing more than 4 service checks in 4 years (I might do about 16k miles a year) but, it doesn't sound too bad.
There's a lot in that "etc." category--checking all the sheets in the battery, e.g. The price is a touch on the high side, but I think that has as much to do with scale as anything. Like the proverbial Maytag repairman, the Tesla service team may not have a lot to do on most days but still need to get paid.
The towing is much better than "50 miles from home". Read it carefully -- Tesla will cover all the towing costs needed to get your car repaired, regardless of where the breakdown occurs (in the US or Canada).
No. It specifically doesn't have to be someone qualified. Well, unless you want the car to work afterwards. But the manufacturer is prohibited (by law) from requiring that it be someone qualified as a condition of keeping the warranty in force.
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