Warranty (esp. driving through floods!)

[jerry33]

A typical curb is only about 6 inches high. 1-2 feet is 12 -24 inches high. 1 foot would reach about the wheel hub of a typical car and if you are wearing standard ~1 ft tall rain boots your feet would be wet. 2 feet would reach the top of the wheels (they would be completely immersed). I doubt you regularly have to ford water that high!

You're right. Two feet is definitely too much. One foot (axle height) is a reasonable maximum with 8" to 10" being more typical of the very deepest parts (that aren't closed to traffic). This situation happens from two to four times a year.

 

[goyogi]

Two feet of water would have killed my last car as its intake was low in the engine bay.

 

[chmod a+wrx]

Is there any information out there that pertains to any sort of water testing that Tesla has done (on any vehicle)?

 

[Mphmd]

Model s in flooding conditions

Does anybody have any ideas about how driving in 12 inches of water would effect the the electric motor and the connections.
Im here in Wellington Fl.and we are flooded.If forced to take the car out,(when I get it) i am wondering what connections might be exposed especially if the car was slightly underwater.
The car sits low in the first place.
Does anyone have any thoughts other than don't take the car out.
Thanks
Steve

 

[jerry33]

Thread is here.

 

[NigelM]

Thread is here.

Merged. Thanks!

 

[rogbmw]

I do not know of ANY manufacturer who would cover water damage due to flooding damaging a vehicle. BUT - that is what your insurance is for. Had a friend who came across something similar to your depth of water. Water got sucked into the air intake and seized the engine. His insurance paid for a new OEM BMW motor. Remember - it a car - not a submarine.

 

[nrcooled]

I haven't seen the GM test where the water came up to the windows (do you have a link?).

The standard water fording / water trough test the Volt went through seems to have about 1 foot of water at the deepest (the deepest test had water up to less than the center of the wheel hubs, which are about 13 inches tall, given it has P215/55R/17 tires).
http://www.greencarreports.com/news...ars-make-you-worry-about-toasters-in-bathtubs

The water chamber test done on the Volt is just a standard leak test to simulate rain (not the same as standing water):
http://www.gm-trucks.com/news/newmo...-takes-a-bath-in-gms-universal-water-chamber/
Tesla does a similar leak test on the Model S with ultrasonic waves (to save water):

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-factory-birthplace-model-s

The Volt's warranty will not cover damage to the vehicle from water or fluids either (page 11):

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals and Videos/02_pdf/2011_chevrolet_volt_warranty.pdf

Although in real life, it seems they are willing to make exceptions to the warranty:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-7892.html
From the same thread there's a claim that a Prius under water had to get its battery replaced.

In any case I would not recommend going through deep water with any car, if it can be avoided. There have been warranty claim issues even in less than a foot deep water, an example is this Jeep which went through 10 inches of water, got hydrolocked and Jeep refused to cover it under warranty despite advertising up to 30 inches of water fording at slow speed, since changed to 19 inches:
http://jalopnik.com/5697449/why-did-a-new-jeep-wrangler-die-in-ten-inches-of-water
I doubt most car companies will see 1-2 feet of water as a reasonable depth for a sedan, given even a trail rated SUV like the Jeep only covers about 1.5 ft of water fording.

Am I the only one that doesn't veiw this as a warrantee issue? This is an insurance issue in the event of flooding or fording two feet worth of water. If that were to ever happen I would not come close to expecting that Tesla is responsible to eat that cost. I pay for insurance every month to protect me in the off-chance that my car is flooded or otherwise damanaged from normal driving (which, by the way, I would not include driving through 2 feet of water)

 

[GSP]

I would say that 1" of water causing damage would be a waranty issue. 10' of water causing damage is an insurance issue.

I expect the border is somewhere between 6" and 24." I don't know where it is, but I think that my insurance company has a pretty good idea.

GSP

 

[neroden]

Here's a link to the *non-garbled* version of the warranty (from the official forum):

Model S - Warranty copy.pdf - Google Docs

Looking at the warranty, I might just as well assume that the car has no warranty on minor items at all. For anything short of total failure, *it won't be worth transporting the car to New York City at my own expense*. They'd better get the rate of factory defects down near zero.

...anyway, as for crossing water, crossing legal, labelled, permanent, open fords in streams is presumably normal driving (we have a couple around here). These are 1"-2" normally; they put up warning signs when they get much higher than 3", in the spring floods. Crossing higher water, you're *really not supposed to do* in normal cars (as opposed to off-road-rated vehicles).

...just had an epiphany. This is why I have to get the 85kWh battery. Suppose (God forbid) the car turns out to have a whole bunch of warranty problems which aren't severe enough to prevent the car from operating. With the 85 kWh battery, I have the option of driving it to Tesla myself. With the smaller battery, I can't. For me, roughly 20 ranger calls == incremental cost of battery.

 

[jerry33]

Seems to me that it's warranty if every other car is driving through it without problems. If I can drive through it in my Prius with it's 13 cm ground clearance, then I should be able to drive through it with the Model S without problems.

 

[Robert.Boston]

The environment or an act of God, including, but not limited to, exposure to sunlight, airborne chemicals, tree sap, animal or insect droppings, road debris (including stone chips), industry fallout, rail dust, salt, hail, floods, wind storms, acid rain, fire, water, contamination, lightning and other environmental conditions.

This reminded me of the 10 plagues sent on Egypt: blood, frogs, lice, wild beasts, pestilence, boils, hail, and locusts! (Not to mention slaying of the first-born sons....)

 

[dsm363]

It seems odd that 'act of god' would appear in the warranty but maybe it's in all warranties.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

"exposure to sunlight"? "water"? Really?

 

[Robert.Boston]

It surprised me that it only called out acts of God, but without limitation as to acts of war or terrorism. "Acts of God" is a stock insurance term with well-understood legal precedents to exclude floods, hail, locusts, frogs, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

"exposure to sunlight"? "water"? Really?

Yes, really. Look at your current car's warranty. Tesla is legitimately trying to limit coverage to "when things break", not to subtle changes in paint color due to sunlight, or you ruining the upholstery by leaving the pano roof open in the pouring rain. Of course, exposure to water doesn't void the warranty, so if something really breaks, Tesla fixes it even if you've left your car out in the rain.

Driving to Mexico, OTOH, does void the whole warranty.

 

[jkeyser14]

Sometimes drivers need to ford water that is 1-2 feet deep. I was driving my Volt on a three lane interstate highway (not some backwoods path) during heavy rain. At a construction zone their was no shoulder or place to pull off, and traffic was backed up for about a mile due to a 1.5' stream of water, about 50' wide, crossing all three lanes. I had no choice but to slow to 2-5 mph and ford my brand new Volt. However I was confident both the car and I would survive, since GM required the Volt to pass their standard fording test. GM posted a video of this test, and the water almost came up to the bottom of the windows!

Now, I see that fording 1.5' of water will void the warranty on the Model S battery. This makes the financial risk of owning a Model S higher than it should be, in my opinion. I definately want Tesla certified fording capability in ver 2.0, similar to GM and other cars.

From the above PDF:

The following will also void this New Vehicle Limited Warranty:
• Vehicles that have been transported or driven outside the Tesla North America Warranty Region;
• Vehicles that have had the VIN defaced or altered or the odometer or other related system disconnected, altered or rendered inoperative so that it is difficult to determine the VIN number or actual mileage;
· Exposing the vehicle to ambient temperatures above 140°F (60°C) or below -22°F (-30°C) for more than 24 hours at a time;
· Physically damaging the Battery or intentionally attempting, either by physical means, programming, or other
methods, to extend (other than as specified in your owner documentation) or reduce the life of the Battery;
· Exposing the Battery to direct flame;
· Immersing any portion of the Battery in water or fluids;
· Opening the Battery enclosure; and
· Having the Battery serviced by a person or facility not authorized or certified to do so;


I am also concerned about exposure to temperatures below -30 C. Surely this will be OK as long as the car is plugged in. I think that the waranty should say so.

GSP

I think you are being a little unreasonable. In an ICE you can crack your engine block by fording water that's too deep, or if you submerge the tailpipe you can cause carbon monoxide to build up inside of the vehicle. Also, -30 C is COLD. A gasoline engine won't start that cold without a block heater. It's a possibility that the battery conditioning circuit can't maintain operation in -30C weather when you add in convection from driving.

 

[tomanik]

I think you are being a little unreasonable. In an ICE you can crack your engine block by fording water that's too deep, or if you submerge the tailpipe you can cause carbon monoxide to build up inside of the vehicle. Also, -30 C is COLD. A gasoline engine won't start that cold without a block heater. It's a possibility that the battery conditioning circuit can't maintain operation in -30C weather when you add in convection from driving.

-30C is cold but it happens here for a week or two a year. If the car can't handle this (even plugged in) it's pretty key to know as the car is not an option me and many others I would expect.

 

[KBF]

We get down to -40 here at least with the windchill factor every winter. Good thing I have a garage; glad that it clarifies "over 24 hours," otherwise work might be an issue (although it would be a good excuse to stay home those days).

 

[Doug_G]

I am also concerned about exposure to temperatures below -30 C. Surely this will be OK as long as the car is plugged in. I think that the waranty should say so.

My Roadster has started up just fine at -27C. No problem whatsoever. At those temperatures an ICE is very cantankerous, but the Roadster didn't bat an eyelash.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, -30 C is COLD. A gasoline engine won't start that cold without a block heater.

Nonsense. I've started completely cold-soaked gas cars at colder temperatures than that. They grunble and complain but they do run.

 

[alset]

We get down to -40 here at least with the windchill factor every winter. Good thing I have a garage; glad that it clarifies "over 24 hours," otherwise work might be an issue (although it would be a good excuse to stay home those days).

You know that cars don't feel windchill, right?