Just to confirm, my new car came without radar and there is no meaningful difference in TACC, AEB, EAP or any other system. You are not preserving anything of merit by avoiding upgrades. They are almost certainly referring to the latest batch without USS which currently doesn't have a park assist capability (beeps) until that's delivered. This doesn't effect existing cars (at least for now).
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[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance
- Thread starter randompixel
- Start date
I know this has been discussed, but I would appreciate clarification. I am ready to accept what you state above. If it was easy to reverse an upgrade and Tesla gave trustworthy info upfront I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade. On top of that, I am fairly comfortable with the version I'm on at the moment so why rush to replace old bugs with new ones?
So if we know radar has been disabled or not fitted on certain cars, do we know that these cars are running same VO / TV code as any other VO car (in the USA for example)?
If (our) cars are running VO code, are they subject to changed (from Radar version) wiper and headlight function? I believe they are.
While speed and follow distance makes no practical difference to me, I really do have a problem with headlights and wipers..... and haven't seen evidence that they are much improved with most recent software.
Auto main beam was improved considerably in a recent update. That alone would make me say it’s worth updating.
My experience of VO on a Radar-disabled car has been mostly unchanged, to be honest. Some people have had reduced AP capability in bad weather that they’d previously not had, etc. I haven’t experienced this but do limited miles.
My experience of VO on a Radar-disabled car has been mostly unchanged, to be honest. Some people have had reduced AP capability in bad weather that they’d previously not had, etc. I haven’t experienced this but do limited miles.
spooksman
Member
I might be going well 'off reservation' with these answers, but here goes...
I guess there is no real need to upgrade to the latest software unless you want something that comes along with the upgrade (think cards, auto seats, auto indicators etc). Having said that, I believe Tesla will always want you on the latest software when they start any trouble shooting - its probably in their T&Cs (I know it is in our software!). If you have the update setting on Standard, in theory you'll get it later than others, so if there is a real 'gotcha', you can avoid it as long as you want.
I don't think anyone outside Tesla themselves know exactly what code is running where and on what cars - I'm not even sure another 2020 MP3 like mine has exactly the same software - logic says yes, but, Tesla... My understanding is that radar has been disabled on all cars with recent software - TACC/Autosteer etc is Vision based only now.
I believe the Auto High Beam and Rain Sensor have always been camera based - radar was only for TACC/AutoSteer (with USS for slow manoeuvring and parking).
For what it is worth, on my 2020 M3P, I have the latest software and I would say TACC/AutoSteer is generally better than it has been, Auto High Beam has improved, and the wipers are much the same as the always have been (I'm lucky, I think mine have been pretty good!). I also think the additions (as mentioned above) have generally improved the car.
I'm sure others will put me right on the above (thanks in advance), and as usual, your mileage may vary.
The one consistent thing about Tesla cars is they all seem to be kind of unique!
LiamPope
Member
If you are referring to auto wipers and auto high beam being mandatory when using TACC and Autopilot features, I believe that is the case for VO cars now, yes. Opinions I have read here regarding that range from 'not an issue at all' all the way to 'so bad it literally prevents them from using TACC/Autopilot!'
I would suggest the Tesla Vision (TV) is purely a marketing term used to describe a number of different technologies, and VO isn't a term Tesla use. It's not really a way to describe the software components. I think the internal structure of components is far more complex then we can understand, it's not simply a case of being two versions with either TV or not.
The change to radar seemed to happen below the layer where AP exists, and miles deeper than wipers and headlights. All of these components seem largely unchanged, despite the radar no longer being part of the calculation. From how it was described the cars have always used vision only, but used radar in addition which is why they had issues making them agree.
What's more interesting is that the FSD Beta apparently uses a different approach to understanding the world around it, but currently only on City Streets. There have been posts about moving to a 'single stack' which would imply that this new approach would then be applied to the highway/motorway AP we get in the UK, but this hasn't happened yet. I expect that when it does it will be quite noticeable.
Why bother upgrading? well because your premium connectivity won't work would seem to be one reason.
So we’ve formally started legal proceedings against Tesla as the car is being sold into trade when we get back from an over seas trip.
Paperwork being raised now on basis of the rejection claim value being the delta of loss between purchase and sale price minus miles used.
It’s a fair bit harder as a company than private as the sale of goods act 1994 is allot less helpful than the latest versions that apply to consumers but there are some hooks.
Tesla know that ref sale of goods act too. This is re first and last time we ever have anything Tesla.
Interestingly the latest dialogue shows the dates for the like for like features has now changed to ‘There is no known date’.
This is actually most helpful as we can further use to point at being misled at point of sale and forming of the contract.
Likely to be a few months but will report back after the outcome of the case. We are just within small claim territory so shouldn’t be longer than 6 months to conclude.
Paperwork being raised now on basis of the rejection claim value being the delta of loss between purchase and sale price minus miles used.
It’s a fair bit harder as a company than private as the sale of goods act 1994 is allot less helpful than the latest versions that apply to consumers but there are some hooks.
Tesla know that ref sale of goods act too. This is re first and last time we ever have anything Tesla.
Interestingly the latest dialogue shows the dates for the like for like features has now changed to ‘There is no known date’.
This is actually most helpful as we can further use to point at being misled at point of sale and forming of the contract.
Likely to be a few months but will report back after the outcome of the case. We are just within small claim territory so shouldn’t be longer than 6 months to conclude.
Unless I've missed it you haven't actually said what your problem(s) were?
Also I think you're wildly optimistic thinking small claims take 6 months. I was involved in a small claim that lasted over a year and that was pre-pandemic.
Also I think you're wildly optimistic thinking small claims take 6 months. I was involved in a small claim that lasted over a year and that was pre-pandemic.
LiamPope
Member
Given what thread we are in, and his previous posts in this very thread, I'm going for the lack of parking sensors!
I’ve had 3 over the years, only one that last more than a year was where quite a few expert witnesses were needed on both sides and they had to do some assessments (the assessments took the time as related to a survey negligence claim).
Other case most like this was 5 months and more like this as in paid for something that wasn’t delivered fully (missing features) and a an agreement to restore was not fulfilled.
I would be wary of not upgrading the software for exactly the reason you state. You're driving a car with known bugs. True, new version may have bugs too, but at least Tesla can't turn round and say "your crash was caused by a bug that was fixed in a later version". Now, you may never have an issue with the software, but given the standard of software these days, something is bound to go wrong at some point. You've just made it easier for Tesla to wash their hands of the problem.
Back in my working days, upgrading software was always the first thing we'd try. 9/10 that would fix the issue. If we had pernickety customers (999 springs to mind) we could usually dig through release notes and find the issue they were having was specifically related to a problem fixed in the later versions. As end users of Tesla software, this is not easy to do, but you've got to assume that a later version of software will have fixed some issues.
Oh, and it is in the T&Cs:
Zilla91
Active Member
At that point you can sue them for releasing dangerous firmware that caused a safety issue. I’m sure the regulators would be all over that as well if they ever admitted something like that
TarmacSurfer
Member
Yes. Same here.
A system reboot probably triggered by Tesla support while I was supercharging seemed to allow Premium to start working without upgrade.
I think that makes perfect sense.
Doesn't really help in terms of understanding what specific updates are doing though. For now I'm happy sticking with a version that I am familiar with. For me a move to single stack in the hope that it brings with it a general improvement in many ap and driver assist areas would be worth taking a risk (that something regressed) to install.
With that point in mind I contacted my insurer a while back to check if they cared about installing software updates. They stated that they don't care. In which case I'm not going to bother unless there is a mandatory recall or Tesla confirmed critical safety concern. Most important to safety while I'm the 'driver' is me having a good idea how the car is going to respond.
As far as insurer concerned at the moment, as long as the vehicle is in a state allowed / created at some time by Tesla, then it is 'standard' spec, even if not the same spec as when I bought it.
So in answer to 'has your vehicle been modified in any way' that does not relate to modifications by Tesla.
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