UK domestic 3 pin charger lead for Tesla MS

[Grandunion]

;-)
Had to delete that post due to stupidity.
I understand the Tesla will arrive with the Tesla Cable & a type 2 to type 2. I will find out if they have a UMC & probably buy a 3pin uk adaptor & possibly the EU 2 pin option also. It would be very convenient to charge whilst at the Villa as it will probably be sufficient for our daily usage. If using an extension lead would i need to have one with an rcd or some form of heat sensor or would that be covered by the UMC. As we shall have dual chargers what would be an approx charge rate. cheers J

 

[arg]

good morning & thanks for all the advice. So, ive had our Podpoint fitted, i chose an un-tethered model as for us its just a neater option. I'm presuming out new car will come with a Tesla UMC charging cable? does it also come with a 240v cable? or is this the referrenced Granny charger which i should buy seperately.

Assuming you are buying the car in the UK, it only comes with a type2-type2 cable and nothing else. So you can use the supplied cable to connect to your un-tethered podpoint (though you will probably want to buy in due course a cable of the right length to leave plugged in there while your Tesla-supplied one stays in the car - can be a cheaper single-phase one).

The villa we have rented has its own driveway so if i took an extension lead i should be able to charge overnight, although at a slow rate, but we wont be doing a huge mileage just some local stuff. We are staying just north of Beziers & ive checked there are a couple of renault dealers & an Auchan supermarket within about 20km so could pop down to do a bit of shopping & get a charge, the Renault has 4 x 3c points & Auchan has 1 x chademo & 1x Type 2. We are also 30 miles from the Narbonne SC so i guess i could nip down have a spot of lunch & get a full charge on the odd day. i feel a bit daft asking silly questions but you all have the right answers. cheers chaps. might see if Tesla have any Chademo adaptors in now ;-)

You will want some kind of portable EVSE to let you do this. The Tesla UMC is probably the best value for your requirements, though there are several other options.

Be careful with your extension lead - the sort you might use in the garden for a lawnmower etc. won't be up to the job; you need something heavy-duty - constructed from at least 1.25mm^2 cable, better still 1.5mm^2.

I'd be tempted to get something like this: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SDEX3.html and make suitable adapters for UK and French plugs (but if going with the UMC, you then need an adapter for the other end...). It's all a bit messy - there's no really ideal solution short of trundling round with half a tonne of assorted equipment.

 

[martinwinlow]

All - I think it would be helpful if, when talking about adaptor cables, we can get reflect the direction of flow of energy in the description we give for the adaptor. The poor guy's confused enough as it is! Ergo, a Type 2 to Type 3 is wrong in this thread's context - it should be a Type 3 to Type 2.

Arg - I would be following your own advice and use a thicker conductor for a 14m extension as the one you linked to one is only 1.5mm2 which (even at only 10A) would give nearly 4 volts drop from one end to the other.

GrandUnion - If you are in the habit of staying with friends in the UK who are unlikely to have a proper Type 2 EVSE, I would get one of these... Portable Mode 2 13A 62196-2 EVSE with Female Plug and 13A Domestic Plug (~£450) and a Schuko to UK adapter so you can use it in France/EU and at home. There are lots of others out there so don't necessarily go with EVConnectors'. If you are a skin-flint, like me, you could even just buy a used 13A terminated 'Granny cable' that the LEAF or Outlander uses (they are often on eBay for ~£200 or less) and have the car-side plug and cable replaced with a Type 2 female plug (£100 or less on eBay). The UK output is stuck at 10A though - I would be surprised if the EU version (via a Schuko) would be any more (and it definitely wouldn't if you use a UK version with a Schuko adaptor).

If money is of relatively little interest to you then I'd go with Puslinch's idea, i.e. "Telsa UMC along with the handful for adapters".

 

[dpeilow]

Also, don't just use a cheap Schuko to UK continental adapter like the ones you get in the airport duty free. They aren't even rated for 10A yet alone 13A.

Far better to pick up a proper 16A Schuko plug on eBay and make an adapter with a trailing UK 3 pin socket.

As said above, don't skimp on extension cables either. I use a 2.5mm one for 16A and a 4mm one for 32A work. They fit nicely in the floor of the Roadster's boot.

 

[Grandunion]

Martin i was looking on EVC earlier & they also do an 8m type 2 to type 2 rated at 32amps, its about £250 including vat but i presume could be a good option to use as an extension lead & a cable to be used at home, just keep the Tesla supplied one for travelling regularly with. Thanks chaps it is all becoming clearer (Slowly). Frankly, apart from charging at home, we are in SC Heaven being regular Westfield shoppers & the Wife having an office near Heathrow. Its just me stressing out about driving down to France and finding out that ive made a cockup. Could someone enlighten me regarding the length of the Tesla UMC please.

 

[arg]

Arg - I would be following your own advice and use a thicker conductor for a 14m extension as the one you linked to one is only 1.5mm2 which (even at only 10A) would give nearly 4 volts drop from one end to the other.

True enough. I was thinking it was a reasonable compromise for 10A use, but I certainly wouldn't argue against thicker.

Here's a better one: http://www.industrialextensionleads.co.uk/14m--230v---16a-extension-lead-25mm-h07-cable-ip44-rated-9699-p.asp

Though none of this is great for use with the Tesla UMC since they don't make a 16A blue adapter for it (and I don't much like the idea of schuko plug/trailing socket mated in the middle of a carpark; 13A plugs even worse).

Better if using the Tesla UMC might be a long 2-core-plus-earth with 16A red commando socket on one end (to mate with the UMC's red adapter) and blue commando plug on the other - to go directly into campground sockets where you find them, and pigtail adapters for schuko and UK 13A. Advantage of using the red adapter is it causes the UMC to dial the current down to 16A - you'd need to turn it further down manually for schuko/13A, but at least that's better than letting rip at 32A.

Or of course you get a straightforward 16A 3-phase extension and just do the adapting at the end furthest from the car - but then you are carrying 60% more weight than you need if you are primarily using it for single phase.

There's no universal solution...

Martin i was looking on EVC earlier & they also do an 8m type 2 to type 2 rated at 32amps, its about £250 including vat but i presume could be a good option to use as an extension lead & a cable to be used at home, just keep the Tesla supplied one for travelling regularly with.

Note that you can't use these type2 cables as extensions, even though it looks like you ought to be able to. The plugs are contrived that although they will mate, they won't connect electrically (deliberately to stop you doing so, just in case you tried extending a 32A chargepoint with a 16A cable).

 

[smac]

Martin i was looking on EVC earlier & they also do an 8m type 2 to type 2 rated at 32amps, its about £250 including vat but i presume could be a good option to use as an extension lead & a cable to be used at home, just keep the Tesla supplied one for travelling regularly with. Thanks chaps it is all becoming clearer (Slowly). Frankly, apart from charging at home, we are in SC Heaven being regular Westfield shoppers & the Wife having an office near Heathrow. Its just me stressing out about driving down to France and finding out that ive made a cockup. Could someone enlighten me regarding the length of the Tesla UMC please.

As Arj has said you can't extend a type 2 cable (well technically you could using an inlet port and some DIY skills, but I would strongly discourage you from doing this!).

For home just get the shortest cable that reaches, and unless you have 3 phase just get a single phase cable, not only do you save a few quid, but they are easier to coil up and handle. Think of the difference between a garden hose (which is the sort of thickness of a 32A 3 phase) and a kettle lead (which is about the same as a 32A 1 phase).


It's also worth bearing in mind the purpose of Superchargers. Unless you are going to Westfield for < 30 minutes, to me it really wouldn't be worth the home electricity savings, hanging nearby the car for 30 minutes whilst it charges doesn't sound sensible. You can't just leave it and go shopping for an hour, it would be bad form tying up the Supercharger like this

 

[Grandunion]

I think i'm nearly there.
So, the car is supplied with a 16amp 7.5m Type 2 to type 2 which is suitable for ( type 2) podpoint home charging & `16amp fast charging & 16amp medium charging. Not Chademo unless i manage to buy the adaptor & 32amp cable.
I shall buy the Tesla UMC cable with a uk 13amp 3 pin adaptor & a shucko EU adaptor which will allow me to charge at uk family & friends homes & eu vacations.
If i use the UMC plugged into the ( French ) socket can i use the tesla type 2 to connect to the UMC & Tesla charge socket? if not. what can i buy online to allow me to have a simple extension to provide a bit of overnight charge? Without blowing up the Parents house in the uk or holiday rental in Europe. Because that would be really unfortunate. cheers All. ;-) J

- - - Updated - - -

Gotcha Simon,
For home a 10m 16 amp type 2. Keep the Tesla cable in the Frunk with the UMC & adaptors.

 

[martinwinlow]

Almost... As I understand it (someone who knows for sure please correct/confirm this - Tesla's website is not clear) the standard MS Type 2 charging lead (that comes with the car) is a 3 phase one. So, as well as being able to do a 16A (3.6kW) or 32A (~7kW) single phase charge (from any of the common or garden Type 2 EVSEs out there) you can also avail yourself of 3 phase (3P) charging from any suitably equipped Type 2 EVSEs - the EVSE will say which it is and so will the information on any of the better charging location apps/web sites. If you have a single charger in your MS, 3P 32A charging gets you about 11kW - if you have 2 chargers then it's double that.

As to the second part of your question, the Tesla UMC has a 13A plug on one end and a Type 2 (female) plug on the other which (obviously) plugs into the MS' charge port. So if you are using your Schuko > 13A adaptor, the other end works the same wherever you are. No need for anything else (if I understood your question correctly...?) The UK UMC will only pull about 10A (2.3kW) and so is most unlikely to cause a local brown-out! The UMC also has ground fault protection as well as overload protection. So, pretty much any problem scenario is covered. I would endeavour to protect both car port/T2 plug and UMC from direct rain if you can. It is designed to be used in the wet but... MW

 

[mgboyes]

I think i'm nearly there.
So, the car is supplied with a 16amp 7.5m Type 2 to type 2 which is suitable for ( type 2) podpoint home charging & `16amp fast charging & 16amp medium charging. Not Chademo unless i manage to buy the adaptor & 32amp cable.
I shall buy the Tesla UMC cable with a uk 13amp 3 pin adaptor & a shucko EU adaptor which will allow me to charge at uk family & friends homes & eu vacations.
If i use the UMC plugged into the ( French ) socket can i use the tesla type 2 to connect to the UMC & Tesla charge socket? if not. what can i buy online to allow me to have a simple extension to provide a bit of overnight charge? Without blowing up the Parents house in the uk or holiday rental in Europe. Because that would be really unfortunate. cheers All. ;-) J

Erm, no, sorry

The car is supplied with a three phase 7.5m Type 2 cable that is rated for up to 32A per phase.
You will need this only when you need to connect your car to an untethered Type 2 electric vehicle charge point, such as the one you have at home, or those you will come across in carparks at train stations, supermarkets, etc. Lots of fast public charge points have tethered cables (for example Ecotricity points at motorway services) so you don't even need this cable there either.
If you have single chargers installed then you can charge at 32A from a single phase source (7kw, 20mph), or 16A from a 3 phase source (11kw, 30mph).
If you have dual chargers installed then you can charge at 32A from a single phase source (7kw, 20mph) or 32A from a 3 phase source (22kw, 60mph).

If you want to charge your car from something that was not designed to be an electric vehicle charge point (e.g. a UK 3 pin socket, or a European Schuko socket, or industrial "commando" mains sockets) then you will need an entirely different type of cable, which goes by the generic name of a "mobile EVSE" and in the case of Tesla's version is called the Universal Mobile Connector or UMC. These cables all have a Type 2 connector at one end that plugs into your car, a lump in the middle with various bits of electronics and electrical protection equipment inside, and a "normal" mains plug at the other end that goes into the wall outlet. The UMC is relatively unusual in that it has been designed to have multiple different adaptors fitted on to it, enabling it to plug neatly into a 3 pin UK, EU Schuko, 32A blue commando or 16A red commando outlet. When you use the UMC your Type 2 cable is not required. It is about 7m long.

A CHAdeMO charger is something completely different again - it's a Japanese standard for DC rapid charging with a very different type of connector. You will only come across this at rapid public charge points such as at motorway services. Charging from a CHAdeMO charger requires an adaptor from Tesla (£350) but it then bypasses your car's built in chargers, and doesn't use any of your other cables. The speed at which you can charge from a CHAdeMO point (up to 120mph) is not affected by whether you have single or dual chargers in your car.

For maximum convenience people who have untethered home charge points tend to buy themselves a lightweight, short, Type 2 cable to use at home, and leave it plugged permanently into the charge point. This saves the effort of getting the heavy, bulky, Tesla-supplied cable out of the boot every day to charge at home.

 

[Grandunion]

I originally wrote 32 amp then thought i got it wrong & wrote 16amp... Thankyou, it is now very clear. I was concerned that the UMC may not be long enough to reach the car if i couldnt park close enough when parked on holiday, hence asking whether i could attach an type2 extension lead. Maybe someone should design a high quality type 2 to type 2 weather proof coupling? Or Have You ? cheers chaps. ps Martin if i get rained on after driving that far south i'll be thoroughly miffed ;-)

 

[smac]

Gotcha Simon,
For home a 10m 16 amp type 2. Keep the Tesla cable in the Frunk with the UMC & adaptors.

You'll still need 32A type 2 cable, just one that has fewer wires inside it. Lack of extra wiring makes is what makes it thinner and lighter, not the current rating. You still want to get the most from your home point

This is the one I have: Type 2 to Type 2 Cable - 32A Single Phase | nuWorld Energy ( I paid a little less at the time though, so worth shopping around)

I wouldn't use the Frunk for storage of your cables, just use the boot. My Frunk only get's opened to top up the washer bottle

There is a convenient opening to the left (and RHS if you don't have the upgraded radio) to store stacks of cabling and accessories, (and car cleaning products, portable vacuum cleaner etc. ) . The boot is vast I've managed to get a transport a full scuba kit for 3 people, including cylinder, drysuit, undersuits + 2 "gear gulpers" all without worrying about the cables, mobile EVSE and odd adapters I have

Personally if I were you I'd buy the CHAdeMO adapter, as this is universally useful, and the UMC with the Shucko adapter for this trip. If you can get the car close enough to a window near an internal socket at the villa you won't need anything else. Figure on something like 10 miles an hour charging like this, which overnight should be plenty for local running around.

If the UMC cable isn't long enough buy an extension cable from the local Lidl/Carrefour hypermarket, following the advice on here and buy the chunkiest one you can and very importantly make sure you fully unwind it if's a reel type.

 

[Grandunion]

Cheers Simon, i'll need a 10m one for home as there's always a few cars on the drive & i'd hate that ( car shuffle time ) to get to the Podpoint. Besides, when we get my P85D in 2 years we will need the extra length :biggrin: I reckon you are right about the Ext Lead, i'll just get a good quality french one. Ive just sent them an email asking whether we have a garage or carport to park under. fingers crossed a nice cool garage would solve all my woes. will give the Chademo a serious thought & it would come in very handy. cheers J

 

[mgboyes]

I originally wrote 32 amp then thought i got it wrong & wrote 16amp... Thankyou, it is now very clear. I was concerned that the UMC may not be long enough to reach the car if i couldnt park close enough when parked on holiday, hence asking whether i could attach an type2 extension lead. Maybe someone should design a high quality type 2 to type 2 weather proof coupling? Or Have You ? cheers chaps. ps Martin if i get rained on after driving that far south i'll be thoroughly miffed ;-)

Type 2 connectors are intentionally designed so that they can't ever function as extension leads (i.e. you can never connect two Type 2 cables together). I agree that someone could in theory build a mobile EVSE or UMC which had a Type 2 socket on it, allowing you to use a long Type 2 cable with it, but I don't know of any on the market that does this.

In general charging at someone else's house (in the UK or in Europe) presents 2 issues:
1. the need for extension leads
2. uncertainty as to what you are plugging into, i.e. whether it's a high quality socket with modern wiring, on a circuit that doesn't have other high-current appliances on it.

Ultimately if you can't get the car near to the socket then extension leads of some kind are a necessary evil. Get the chunkiest you can as @smac says, or better still, if you're confident of your abilities, build one yourself from 2.5mm HO7RNF cable and industrial grade schuko connectors such as these ABL SchukoStecker rot/schwarz 1529140 | eBay and ABL SCHUKO-Kupplung mit Manschette, Deckel und Spannungsanzeige ( 258980 ) | eBay

I also recommend you buy a Dribox (DRiBOX FL-1859-330 IP55 Large Weatherproof Box- Black: Amazon.co.uk: DIY Tools) which is large enough for the UMC "lump" and connectors all to fit inside, so that everything is completely waterproofed. The UMC is fine in the rain, but for peace of mind (and tidiness) these are a great idea. And they're useful to store cables inside.

As for your confidence about the quality of the electrics you're connecting to - you simply have to form a view based on your obvervations. By default the UMC will allow the car to charge at 13A if it's connected to a Schuko outlet, but you can dial that down to 10A or even less inside the car if you aren't that confident about the wiring. If your car is sitting on the driveway at a holiday home for 12 out of every 24 hours then within a few days it will be completely full anyway.

 

[Grandunion]

ive just emailed a company called Power&pyro and they have specced up a schuko 20m 3 core ho7rn-f 2.5mm complete with all sockets crimps & ferrals for £55.20 inc vat & del. All parts are on the shelf & can be dispatched within 24 hrs. Sounds very reasonable to me. Contact is Shay Beckingham if anyone is interested.

 

[mgboyes]

ive just emailed a company called Power&pyro and they have specced up a schuko 20m 3 core ho7rn-f 2.5mm complete with all sockets crimps & ferrals for £55.20 inc vat & del. All parts are on the shelf & can be dispatched within 24 hrs. Sounds very reasonable to me. Contact is Shay Beckingham if anyone is interested.

Sounds perfect.

 

[Rluner]

Thank you everyone who replied.

I opted for the Tesla UMC in the end. Delivery was next day, but just short of £500 with one three pin end. I used it the first weekend I got it, as a destination charger in Wales. Set off full and made an easier trip home.

 

[Grandunion]

I'm going to follow you on that one Rluner. Sorry if i hijacked the thread somewhat.