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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
The UAW still wants to destroy automakers.
Reuters through Yahoo - 12:50 EDT:
UAW President: 'No excuse' for Detroit's non-union EV operations
Reuters through Yahoo - 12:50 EDT:
UAW President: 'No excuse' for Detroit's non-union EV operations
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Yes, but it requires a 17% reduction in costs from $40,000 to $33,200.
"Shareholders" should read "whining money managers with short-term focused angry clients".
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I think the addressable market for "practical on-road mid-sized SUV that can also do light off-road duty" is.... pretty small... even most owners of full sized trucks and SUVs go off-road with them approximately 0 times a year. So I doubt it'd be worth the engineering and the MFG/Supply chain complexity and cost to offer an off-road config for the Y.
And for folks who have serious off-road needs, CT will be along shortly/
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
This will be huge in Canada. Not only does this RWD LFP base variant priced at under $60K CAD qualify for the $5,000 Federal EV Rebate, but there's MOAR!
Due to the vagaries of incentive rules, because the base model now qualifies, then any variant priced less than $70K CAD also qualifies. [INSERT "Let that Sink in" meme]
Not by coincidence, the price for a LR AWD in Canada is $69,990. {INSERT "Calvin: TaDa!"]
/Demandproblems
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
For what? The recent launch didn't feature Tesla vehicles nor did it have astronauts, fortunately.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Drew Baglino told us during the Q1 Conf. Call that Lathrop is being built in phases, with only phase 1 in production ATM. So it's more likely at about 60-80% ramped in phase 1. I think Drew also mentioned that they will build phase 2 before the end of Q4.
This seems to be the Tesla build method now: build two of everything, and get the 1st one up and running to help pay for the build out of the 2nd one. It's highly capital efficient, and accelerates ROIC. That's how they built Mudel Y in Giga Shanghai.
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Ah... this makes a ton more sense then.
My big question is:
Where are they manufacturing the Model Y RWD they are selling in Canada? Are they getting these from China and sending them back on the ship that delivers the S/X ? or have they set up a special Canada specific line in the US? Or is it possible we'll see Model Y RWD here in the US soon?
FSDtester#1
"Circle Jerk Old Guard" per cyborgLIS
The astronauts were driven to the launch pad in a MX, they showed it, along with a NASA emblem on the side. They showed them in the X during the drive and then getting out of it with the falcon doors opening
Edit: this was not yesterday's launch or the headlines would of been, "EM just killed innocent pilots/astronauts"
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yesterday????The astronauts were driven to the launch pad in a MX, they showed it, along with a NASA emblem on the side. They showed them in the X during the drive and then getting out of it with the falcon doors opening
Drumheller
Active Member
Parasites cry that CEO does not contain their desired blood type.
Subaru made an entire business out of this market, not a huge company, but it's pretty much 90% of their entire line. Likewise, much of the Rav4 line is much more off-road capable than the Model Y.
Not talking about "Serious Off Road" here. Talking "I want to drive on gravel roads with a few bumps".
Lots of people don't want a giant truck, but want to go camping or enjoy hiking in the wilds on occasion.
Funny how many of the same people who talk about how Musk's reputation damages Tesla suddenly think Musk's reputation is irrelevant when Musk is center stage with massively positive news.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
My guess is Fremont. The LFP bty packs are already in the logistics pipeline, so no extra effort needed for that. Similarly, distribution to Canada is all done from Fremont right now, so that's another reason. Lastly, there are differences between N.American cars and China or EU cars (lights, charge ports) so it'd be less logistics/SKU count to build in Fremont vs. China. Cheaper faster logistics, too w/o ships. My Model Y was built on Apr 24, 2022 and it arrived at my local delivery centre on May 4th. That's just 11 days from factory to customer.
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An off road Y wouldn’t interest me. But a trailer towing special with 400 plus miles of (non towing) EPA range would. Maybe a 500 pound hitch capacity. We know a lot of others towing that would also love this. It’s a camp fire conversation thing.
Optimeer
Member
According to Tesla Carriers, so far no Ro-Ro ship with Teslas has sailed from Shanghai to Canada and shipping to Vancouver would take about 15 days. Since the configurator says delivery of the CAN Model Y will be in May - July, we will know in 3 weeks.
Thank you for the very considered response. Agree Tesla is doing most everything to promote the product. I did want to better understand the argument of the pro-advertising people and here is the picture I came up with:Without doubt this question bedevils all of us in one way or another. In my view without knowing internal data Would not have confidence in a specific opinion. As several people, including Elon and Zach, state often, Tesla has:
1. Global instant data in every location from Google search results (they do buy all Google data, I am sure) so have site visits, dwell time, location of inquiry, addresses sought, click behavior etc from everyone who has not prohibited such information. Theoretically every OEM could have all this too, but realistically only Tesla seems to be using that well. FWIW, Chinese and Japan domestic data have Baidu the primary source, which is similar but not identical. There are numerous limitations on such data sharing, not relevant at this level;
2. As stated by Elon in the Q1 2023 podcast, Tesla has global data on internal orders and sales as they happen. Without any doubt that instant data includes every keystroke that happens on Tesla sites around the world.
3. Certainly Tesla also buys data on social media interactions relevant to Tesla, obviously Twitter is one of those. Each part of that data is parsed for relevance; that is highly specialized work that demands both clever and extensive judgements. This is one reason Alphabet, Amazon, Baidu and Tesla are all deploying AI in search while not discussing it much. [FWIW, those techniques were first deployed in 1996 using a crude LISP expert system, right after year after IPv6]. In present terms these are 'amazingly predictive' of short term buyer behavior.
3. With all that data, combined with actual buyer data in (2) above it is not difficult to assess economy independent demand issues. Thus, Tesla's continuing confidence in purchasing intent is based on substantial evidence. Using only public data it is transparently obvious that they are not imagining that. For example take global brand value:
Keep in mind that Global Brand Value is the product of huge analytics that are themselves deeply biased in favor of the most easily sourced data, so Verizon, for example, benefits by enormously easy data, but no other auto or industrial ranking appear except Tesla.
Notably, every single entity on the list EXCEPT TESLA blows shiploads of money on advertising. So, how can Tesla achieve that exalted status?
Most valuable brands worldwide 2024 | Statista
Apple was the most valuable brand in the world in 2024, worth over 516 billion U.S. dollars. The tech giant overtook the place previously occupied by Amazon.www.statista.com
So, to the OP question about what we'd want to know, I say all of the above. Especially after the brand value data we also know without doubt that Tesla is perhaps the finest 21st century Marketer in existence. Thus it really takes massive hubris to suggest better ideas in this context.
At risk of exhibiting hubris I will offer suggestions. Candidly I am certain these are all happening now:
1. Expand geographic coverage as soon as possible. That can achieve nearly instant (i.e. within a calendar year) results by tapping parish potential markets right away. The closer the links to existing infrastructure the better. In rough order for the next two quarters open more Greece, Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkey and open new stores in Northern California, and across poorly covered parts of the US and Western Europe. NOTE: I'm recommended that they do what they're already doing. Duh!
2. Expand Supercharger access to non-Tesla especially in areas of wealth with little Tesla sales today like Alaska*, making sure to place more stores close by, and convenient access to Tesla drivers. Oops, Duh! again.
3. Do everything possible to encourage other OEM's try to compare themselves to Tesla, denigrate Tesla price competition, and otherwise complain. Duh! the third time!
4. Every chance there is any inventory that can be found anywhere near an inquiry, show available vehicles even if they'd ned to be positioned. OMG, Duh! #4
I might as well face it, I think they're doing a brilliant job, but maybe they ought to promote a bit more, so:
5.They should publicly say that profit margin on cars is less important than more sales so potential customers can begin to understand the direct sales model and contrast with every OEM dealer. Also understand that will really confuse institutional investors and foment glee among shorts while even retail fans who don't understand will panic. Duh! they did that this week!
After all my efforts to think of something better to do I do not have the data to make specific suggestions. Were that data available I am confident that local and regional differences can be optimally addressed. From this perspective I think they may well need improvement in local regional adaptation. Still, in some respects it may be they're already doing that too. I keep seeing things such as color choice beginning to appear in some sensitive markets, and some oddities such as choice of steering wheel vs yoke. Then there are numerous version differences to appeal to different types of buyers, and some specific variants cued to such classes as company car buyers (as @NicoV points out they don't want cheap but tailored to allowances), fleet buyers (rental ones do want cheap, police want bare interior but quick) and so on. Duh! again. They're doing that in many markets but we mostly cannot see that, not least because apart from buyer publicity (e.g. Hertz) nobody really knows.
So there it is. I use lots of words to say, "Wow, every day is a new chapter for business school case studies".
*Edited by SneakyMod
Essentially I am assuming that knowledge of the product and propensity to buy (independent of the knowledge) are related to each other (e.g., it scales with wealth among other things). But there are people at the tails. Bottom right not much can be done. Top left, may be they just buy that Acura RDX because thats what their father told them to buy? i dont know. But there are a fair number of these people.
The bottom left is interesting too. They perhaps dont need any car, or just dont want to buy a Tesla, because thats the fashionable thing.
The top left though, can't be reached via traditional advertising, but there is probably a way to reach them. This is perhaps where the misconception around the utility of advertising comes. I am not sure much can be done about the bottom left too. A lot of them *are* car buyers.
Not sure if there is a different framework that can be used to better understand how any more effective promotion can be done.
ps: This is a stylized graph describing the general population. Please don't go nit-pickety on me like @Knightshade who had to mention that spaceman was not really headed to Mars in his roadster.
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