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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Video with Sandy Munro, Cory, Dave Lee, Rob Mauer, Farazad, and others discussing the event after the fact.

Sandy did seem to be in love. 😏


IIRC, the discussion starts 30 minutes into the video.

Unlike typical WS analyists, Sandy and Cory know the implications of all the innovation in manufacturing and business process displayed. I bet the exec suites of all other automakers are s**ting bricks about now. 😀

GSP
Only Cory seemed to realize that the components were the real story. Almost all of them totally miss global markets, even EU ones. That means they also have no idea what the messages were about scale. China, India, Brazil, Mexico, everywhere in all of Europe have the majority fo the ,market in smaller sized vehicles from delivery vans, mini-taxi, Hatchbacks and so on. Gen 3 will provide all of those easily while the motor and battery technologies will be applicable to every Tesla vehicle category.

I'm blown away at how little even we seem to understand global markets. 20,000,000 vehicles per annum. Even Corolla is a trifle large for many markets, although the Corolla name applies to a quite wide variety of cars, some of which, in some markets, sell as luxury models loaded with options. Tesla DOES understand their markets but they're wise enough to not even raise that issue with people too ignorant to know their goals. Their presentations, though, were vastly 'too much information' for analysts that focus only on superficial issues.
 
Matched paint and new process could pave the way for improved service and spare body parts (auto... not arms and legs). Our $1200 hatch cost $10K after paint and part swapping was complete. Should-cost is maybe $1,500 installed. If they own the insurance, this is needed.
Absolutely! Zach alluded to that sort of planning. This has been the bane of Tesla collision repair. That sort of innovation IS happening at Tesla, and is really overdue.
 
Curious about the first droone footage from the Giga Mexico factory site 😁
Should be "Giga Monterrey" if we follow the established naming convention. ;)

Does anybody know if there is already a TESLA enthusiast who has local info about precise location?
This tweet was posted back on Dec 15, 2022 (but I'm no familiar with the source):


They potentially could have addtional info on the location for Giga Monterrey, given their reference to a land purchase.

Cheers!
 
No only someone such as yourself who has been fixated on this without acknowledging the advances that have been made in this area even after being repeatedly shown them in the past, as well as last night in the Optimus demonstration.
And yet the analysts continue to discount this and fsd. I have spent quite too much time at Walter reed so yeah. A bit fixated on working hands. If Tesla can solve this than there are tens of thousands of amputees that will gain ...so much.
 
I'm sure oil companies, LNG companies, exxon, etc were paying attention. Seeing that is actually possible to pivot away from oil and gas is detrimental to their business. Seeing that there is math behind it, and can be done cheaply is notable. Just me but large algorithmic trading by companies whose entire product and business model is about to be made obsolete is going to use capital markets to work very hard to hold TSLA down. Yesterday's goal was to change ALL energy for the earth to solar and wind with batteries...

The best part about this for the planet, (not so much for investors in the short term) is how these dying Power Brokers' efforts are being wasted on controlling the SP while the actual company is robust and in no way affected by these shenanigans. Tesla will continue the mission unabated by these attacks on TSLA.

There really is no target to aim for to save them. The best they can do is try to tarnish the image people hold for a company based upon stock price movements. Which, for Tesla/TSLA has become business as usual to be volatile and their manipulative efforts are further lost in the fog.
 
Personally, I would love to see Tesla make a van similar to the Canoo Lifestyle Vehicle based on the Gen 3 platform and I think that's what's under the cover. Can also be used for the RoboTaxi (eventually).

IMHO that Canoo is one trick little rig. Here's their site:

Yep, I already plan to get a high end "wedge of cheese" camper on the back of the Cyber(nota)truck to make it a Station Vanagon. Make it strong as sexual intercourse, strong enough to stand on it. I don't care about another 100lbs.
It'd make it easy to slap a couple of kayaks up there, and then go explore America's waterways. I stated years ago that FSD would be a godsend to the canoe/kayak community because a huge factor when using paddle craft is planning how to get a ride once you've finished your trip and you are now 20 miles away from where you put in. With FSD that issue is not only solved it is complimented by the fact that the FSD vehicle can be your "tent" and hold all your camping gear on multi-day trips if the trip has multiple road access points. It reduces the cost anywhere from 50% to 90%. A one day float's cost is all about paying a service to get you back to your car, or shuttling your car to the take out point before the trip starts. That is just one cost savings... even things like not needing to buy ice because a mini fridge in the vehicle, and no hotel expense or even campsite fees if you pack a portable shower.
And then there is the time savings.... Shuttles can eat up 25% of your free time...
But then again, This is just one of the reasons why I try to consistently spell it "Cyber(nota)truck."
 
Sunroof discussion which is totally outside investor thread but the Mods are tolerating it sooo..
Don't ya think that the all glass roof advantage(s) were the real reason they stopped making a sunroof? (rhetorical question)
Mods? I haven't heard a peep in a while. Do we still have them or are we just that good? :D
 
Sounds like Jonas understood the presentation pretty well, in Morgan Stanley's latest note.

The key points:

1. "Master plan 3 entails 'Immense' levels of vertical integration. Too many processes and technologies to mention here."
2. "Singular focus on efficiency and scale - it's all about getting costs down. Way down."
3. "Competitors need to change or face potential obsolescence risk. We leave the investor day at Giga Austin asking which of Tesla's competitors can keep up..."
...
7. "The non-unveil of Model 2 disappointed some people - but it shouldn't have. From our experience auto companies don't typically unveil far cheaper and potentially better engineered products far in advance of SOP."
 
The piece about Tier1/Tier2 suppliers was an eye-opener. The virutal simulation of production line and its implementation with the end results improvement was a mind blown.

Tesla is obviously rate limited by supplies. So is everyone else. Without these limitations Cybertruck would be in production and they would be moving on to the next gen vehicle.

The timing of building the semi mass production facility shows this limitation. In particular it makes no sense to sell a large number of semis soon at the price they have given to buyers.

The presentation viewed through this lens explains the choice of content. Tesla can't present how they will attempt to overcome supply limitations until the deals are done. But a large number of favorable changes will need to take place for Tesla to build 10x more vehicles in seven years.

Model 3/Y and cybertruck can delay next gen release as supplies flow to the most profitable vehicles. Just as 3/Y demand delayed Cybertruck.

Trading TSLA during times of misunderstanding is profitable. I'm betting it will end the year up substantially from today. But the market will continue to be periodically disappointed in the company.

I made the (obvious) prediction years ago that Tesla couldn't continue to grow at 100% and that 50% was max. Today Tesla can't continue to grow at 50% as a manufaturer. They are just too big. 20-30% compounded is still great growth for a big company.

Software can change that rate for the better. But not manufacturing dependent upon huge amounts of physical stuff.
 
I was extremely pleased with this presentation last night, although it didn't cover everything I expected. Notably, the promised incorporation of SpaceX and Boring company to Master Plan Part 3 was nowhere to be found tonight, which makes me wonder if more is coming later. We were told to look forward to the Master Plan white paper, the next-gen vehicle reveal event, and the next Impact Report, so tonight definitely was only the first in a series of info dumps. Also, the president of Mexico in his announcement on Tuesday of Giga Mexico said to expect more information next week, though it’s not clear about what. Probably water.

The big story for the car business last night is that they explained how they’re going to cut $15k+ from the cost to produce each car while slashing billions of dollars from the CapEx investments needed for each incremental 1M cars/year of production capacity. The goal of cutting the cost in half isn’t news, as that was effectively announced in 2020 on Battery Day when Tesla first officially announced intentions of a $25k car. What was news is explaining how they’ll do this and showing, for the first time, actual data on cost trends for several of the major vehicle subsystems. Tesla showed us last night that they are the only company in the industry that can produce compelling affordable EVs for the masses. The demand for a good $25k Tesla would be plenty for selling 20M per year, if not more (spread across multiple models around this price, of course). The question for me has been whether Tesla can actually make such a car with COGS of under $20k, and after Investor Day my confidence in that happening has majorly increased. $5k per car and 20M cars per year is $100B gross profit, and that’s before piling on subsidies and high-margin recurring software and services revenue. $10k per car, $200B. And will they stop at 20? After last night I’m more skeptical of that than ever.

Tesla was very clear in saying that the price elasticity of demand for Tesla products is extreme. That is, the quantity of orders is exquisitely sensitive to price. The was a strong hypothesis, but it’s now been experimentally tested with the price cuts. This has important implications for the strength of Tesla’s margins and total addressable market as they drop lower-priced models onto the market and gradually reduce S3XY prices over time as well. Tesla appears poised to DOMINATE the $25-45k market segment, and this is where most of the money is, especially if you can make like $5k or $10k per car. Prototypes are fun and exciting but what we really needed to know was the plan for resources, logistics and production cost and that’s what Tesla delivered. Don’t get mad that they fed us veggies and brown rice instead of candy. As a long term investor, the core of my thesis has always been that Tesla can make more cars than anyone in history with low OpEx overhead and strong gross margins as the lowest-cost producer. This is how the auto business can hit $100 or $200 billion annual earnings in the 2030s conservatively assuming level 5 autonomy development will have totally failed. In conjunction with Battery Day, Investor Day greatly reduced my remaining doubt that Tesla can do this.

Toyota originated a useful eight wastes framework that basically is the first principles of efficient industrial engineering:
  1. Overproduction
  2. Inventory
  3. Waiting
  4. Motion
  5. Transportation
  6. Rework
  7. Overprocessing
  8. Underutilized human potential
The more you eliminate these wastes, the more you can improve safety, quality, throughput, morale and cost. I recommend rewatching the manufacturing sections of the presentation with this list of wastes and consider all the ways Tesla is deleting them throughout the value chain. Like Pete Bannon said, they’ve found all kinds of ways to shave the carrot.

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This slide and the build sequence animation was great. In 2020 I was impressed with the Supertub (see image below). Last year I was impressed when Munro Live showed us the Model Y structural battery pack assembly with the seat and everything built up atop it. Now Tesla has revealed they’re taking that concept to a whole new level by completing almost all of the general assembly work before mating the major structural elements. This is revolutionary from an access, ergonomics and safety standpoint. The body in white itself has traditionally been an annoying obstruction to general assembly because it’s basically a big enclosed cage. Humans have to lean and contort into awkward postures to get work done, and robots have to slowly and carefully move in and out of the openings. No more of that with this new design, and as Tesla noted this will improve the density of value-added operations per square meter of floor space by about 40%, even as it also deletes traditional non-value-added operations like putting the doors on multiple times. Lars mentioned "tested subassemblies". This is also key. Fixing problems is also a lot easier before they’re covered up with other hardware. Further, with the old way, most of the mass is being moved around without added value. With this new method, there's much less wasted motion and force. This will also further reduce the energy embodied in the manufacturing of each car.

1677767482178.png


This new sequence is also much more parallelizable than the Model Y line and the smaller subassemblies allow 33% more people and robots to simultaneously operate on each vehicle.

My big question with respect to this new assembly sequence is exactly why no one else has done this before. Is it only feasible with an EV architecture? Are castings or structural battery packs required to make it practical?

After seeing what Tesla presented I think this plan is probably better than a complete full-body casting, which is really just a better way to complete the old design flow.

If you haven’t worked in manufacturing you might not realize just how terrible wire harnesses are from fabrication to assembly to troubleshooting to service. They are often one of the worst and most frustrating aspects of building products. Tesla showed last night a strong trend of reducing wiring in the vehicles and a path to reduce even more in Gen 3. I won’t rehash what they said but it’s a big deal for the low-voltage system.

Tesla has continually said manufacturing will be their long term competitive advantage and this event was mostly about manufacturing. They showed us how they'll make Gen 3, not the cabin design and sheet metal and shape. That stuff is relatively easy and everyone in the industry knows how to do it.

One aspect I think Tesla understated or maybe doesn't see…The beginning of the presentation covered what is needed to transition the world to sustainable energy, with an implied assumption that there will be a one-for-one replacement of current applications. I think this is a profoundly inaccurate assumption. My thesis remains that overall energy consumption is actually going to increase many times over, despite the greater efficiency of electric motors compared to any Carnot heat engine. Whenever supply of any fundamental factor of production increases such that it’s cheaper, better and more available, economies consume more of it. This will happen with clean energy, and it already has been happening with thermal energy sources since the beginning of the First Industrial Revolution. We consume far more joules of coal/oil/gas per capita than we ever did with less-efficient traditional biomass like wood. The long-term cumulative numbers presented last night should be viewed as a baseline scenario showing it’s technically and economically possible to get humanity off of fossil fuels by 2050, but it’s not presenting the magnitude of the true long-term opportunity of energy and the new ways we will use it.

What else we got that stood out to me:
  • Hard historical data showing what we've thought and proving what the Munro team has been claiming all along: that Tesla's innovation has been aggressively reducing costs in every major vehicle subsystem.

  • Digital twin and digital thread principles are deeply embedded in everything Tesla does, and the shift to using exclusively custom Tesla-designed microcontrollers is the final step to unleashing the full power of this strategy because Tesla engineers will now have total control over the brains of the car. Tesla showed a deeper glimpse than ever into their incredible data management and end-to-end software integration.

  • FSD Beta collision rate finally revealed. Human-supervised FSD Beta has decidedly NOT increased risk for customers or others sharing the road. 6x lower collision rate. One could argue that even with fewer collisions there may be an elevated risk of catastrophic failure, but seeing as there have been zero reports of deaths or injuries, I’m inclined to believe that the collisions that have happened on FSD have not been especially serious compared to the statistical norm for human drivers.

  • As far as I can remember, this is the first time we've heard any detail directly from Tesla about Factory Mode. Joe Justice has talked about it extensively but I still have some skepticism for stuff he claims because it seems like he tends to exaggerate. Hearing it straight from Tesla was great news. Tesla is basically using the car’s display as visual quality control, a new twist on the traditional Andon concept. Joe Justice has also talked a lot about Tesla’s software-style continuous integration testing in the factory and Tesla also mentioned this last night. It’s the right approach in my opinion.

  • Lots of miscellaneous bits of technical info that the people who insist on negativity seem to have completely missed

  • Specifics on just how cheap superchargers are

  • Clear guidance that the crazy OpEx cost control we’ve seen is likely to continue as business scales, implying amazing leverage is coming

  • Powertrain: No rare-earth metals, $1k cost, agnostic to battery chemistry, 75% less SiC

  • 48V for all low-voltage components, completely leaving 12V behind

  • Zero cross-car power wires by moving away from centralized control to local controllers (edge computing). Ethernet (much lighter weight than the old wires) will route data between microprocessors.

  • Advanced in-house electromagnetic physics simulation software that is faster and more accurate than any commercially available options
 
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I've been thinking about the Tesla team's comments and decisions re: Monterey, and their associated comments that Elon set the line that radical new ideas require new factories due to the disruptions and expenses that would attend attempts to implement those ideas in standing factories.

It is a milestone of sorts for Tesla to have the problem of legacy manufacturing. Just like Ford, GM et al. Irony

The Tesla solution appears to be growth, both in product differentiation and scale. Youth has its privileges. I do think though that Tesla would do well to engineer into their factories as much flexibility and recyclability as they can. This problem is not going away.
 
Sorry for the disagree, but no... the compact car has to be a hatch-back and significantly smaller than the M3 for the markets that need it
I understand and agree with what you wrote. But only because I did not go over every aspect of my "Model 3 jr." Of course I would love it to be a hatchback, but that isn't going to happen unless first principles fits it in. Tesla has tons of experience with frunks/hatch fronts, so a hathback is clearly in their sphere of competencies.
Second, when I stated "take a little off the front, a little off the back" it shouldn't have been hard for you to recognize the skin of the car will change, and if they take some of each end Franz and Elon are going to skinny it up for aesthetic and economic (material and mpe gains).
BUT under the skin most of the parts are going to be Model 3 stock parts.
I was brief because this is the Investor thread.
 
I missed that … when did they admit they are still battery cell constrained?
During the mega pack Presentation when they discussed this being the first time they had not been cell constrained. It was obvious though as they had continuously lost energy storage market share. Cell constraints show up first in lower margin production.

Lots of positive in the face of the cell constraints- the agility to balance chips to keep auto moving was great. They are ramping mega packs, great

Lots of great news last night. For investors the team depth is so important. They are slogging through 4680 ramp. Lithium refining. Energy being a focus, finally.

@petit_bateau post on battery and cells is really the definitive work on the future of battery and cells.
 
Were the algos programmed to sell the news if there was no stock buyback announced yesterday?

The big drop happened instantly (within a minute) when Zach said in this introductory remarks that the event would focus on the long-term. Wall St. hates long-term. They sold off as soon as they heard they weren't going to get instant gratification (bunch of 5-yr old kidz) ;)

BTW, having Zach as the first speaker at Investor Day bodes well for his potential future leadership role at Tesla. Jus' sayin'...
 
The best part about this for the planet, (not so much for investors in the short term) is how these dying Power Brokers' efforts are being wasted on controlling the SP while the actual company is robust and in no way affected by these shenanigans. Tesla will continue the mission unabated by these attacks on TSLA.

There really is no target to aim for to save them. The best they can do is try to tarnish the image people hold for a company based upon stock price movements. Which, for Tesla/TSLA has become business as usual to be volatile and their manipulative efforts are further lost in the fog.
Here is an anecdote. I am driving a tesla regularly, including rental cars. Had to fill gas in wife's SUV and first time in several months had to go to a gas station and nearly choked on the fumes. Thankfully carbon monoxide has no smell or at least I can't seem to remember... 👀
 
C-suites at many companies ONLY worry about SP movements
Medium- or longer-term movements is one thing, but if they're watching the ticker minute by minute day by day despite knowing the stock market is merely a place to trade pieces of businesses...

Even Warren Buffett only glances at stock prices, and investing is his job whereas these people's job is to run the company itself. I don't think even people in here should be worrying too much about daily movements aside from opportunities to buy or (hopefully not) sell.
 
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