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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I did mine in the pre. ;-)
Yesterday morning, @tivoboy inspired (and scared) me to sell enough options to pay most of my enormous impending federal tax bill right at the 9:45* AM tippy-top of the morning's $1,207 price peak, (thank you @tivoboy )! I've NEVER hit the top of anything like this in my entire life!

...with paying my 2020 taxes off my back, the TSLA sun continues to shine on my Roth account, as I contentedly HODL all the rest... Oh, and I also sold enough to pay for my new plaid model X when it arrives, supposedly in February. Can't wait, THANK YOU, ELON!!

*value of options sold just to pay taxes about equal to my total net worth before I started investing in TSLA
 
I didn't think I would make another one of these but with this fake push down in TSLA I wanted to note why this could be happening.
Look at the wave of PUTS that are coming into the shore. CALLs are not moving much. THEY are using this to rise the tide.

Strikes on this cropped image are between 1000 - 1200. I cut off the top at 10K. I don't know why the gif creator made this so large.
There are inaccuracy do to how max-pain.com always changes the chart ratios to make this stuff difficult but you get the idea.

TMP010722.gif
 
Mercedes also making an attempt at a technologically advanced EV with anouncement of EQXX. Timeframe 2024-5ish and who knows what price. Looks like they are sacrificing performance for efficiency, but it is a better effort than we have seen from them so far and is an admission of the direction they must go to survive. Mercedes-Benz Vision EQXX shoots for peak electric car efficiency
 
This is how real the competition is: ”Sony is planning to launch a company to examine if they should enter the EV market. Stock +4% on this concrete news.
Sony can't even make a decent UI. Try navigating the PS5 menus. They will do this every other year until the press stops rewarding them with attention. Building a fake EV has to be far cheaper than say a superbowl ad.
 
Yesterday morning, @tivoboy inspired (and scared) me to sell enough options to pay most of my enormous impending federal tax bill right at the 9:45* AM tippy-top of the morning's $1,207 price peak, (thank you @tivoboy )! I've NEVER hit the top of anything like this in my entire life!

...with paying my 2020 taxes off my back, the TSLA sun continues to shine on my Roth account, as I contentedly HODL all the rest... Oh, and I also sold enough to pay for my new plaid model X when it arrives, supposedly in February. Can't wait, THANK YOU, ELON!!

*value of options sold just to pay taxes about equal to my total net worth before I started investing in TSLA
I'm só glad there are no capital gains taxes structured like that in The Netherlands.. Is there any compensation when you suffered a loss?
 
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Right. That's why I acknowledged it would take a whole lot of cell phones/laptops to put a dent in this. My main point is the volume of batteries in the timeframe of 2025-2027 will be so astronomically large relative to all the batteries produced a decade or more earlier, that the contribution of raw materials from the recycling stream will be truly miniscule, relatively speaking. It's absolutely necessary to start recycling now, but the ratio of reclaimed/virgin materials will not be very large until after 2030 due to the long useful life of batteries and the exponential growth rate. It's only after battery production curves start to level off that the reclaimed materials percentage (of new production) can climb above 2-3%.

Do not under-estimate the magnitudes of difference in battery volumes between the two eras (2010-2017 vs. 2025-2027 and beyond). Anyone who takes issue with this point does not understand how quickly battery production will ramp and how large production volumes will be.

Exactly.

Battery recycling won’t ramp or contribute significantly until about ~15 years after batteries themselves ramp, so we are talking about 2035+.

Eventually, when we hit a mature market with a large stock, recycling will probably be the majority of battery material (2050+).
 
Right. That's why I acknowledged it would take a whole lot of cell phones/laptops to put a dent in this. My main point is the volume of batteries in the timeframe of 2025-2027 will be so astronomically large relative to all the batteries produced a decade or more earlier, that the contribution of raw materials from the recycling stream will be truly miniscule, relatively speaking. It's absolutely necessary to start recycling now, but the ratio of reclaimed/virgin materials will not be very large until after 2030 due to the long useful life of batteries and the exponential growth rate. It's only after battery production curves start to level off that the reclaimed materials percentage (of new production) can climb above 2-3%.

Do not under-estimate the magnitudes of difference in battery volumes between the two eras (2010-2017 vs. 2025-2027 and beyond). Anyone who takes issue with this point does not understand how quickly battery production will ramp and how large production volumes will be.
Recycling from scrap will be a significant portion of feed materials in the short term.
 
I'm só glad there are no capital gains taxes structured like that in The Netherlands.. Is there any compensation when you suffered a loss?
Compensation?? Quite the opposite! (unless you Dutch guys want to take up a collection for me...?) We have WASH rules that we have to essentially pay tax on our losses (I guess because to our government it looks like a tax-avoidance scheme or something).
 
I didn't think I would make another one of these but with this fake push down in TSLA I wanted to note why this could be happening.
Look at the wave of PUTS that are coming into the shore. CALLs are not moving much. THEY are using this to rise the tide.

Strikes on this cropped image are between 1000 - 1200. I cut off the top at 10K. I don't know why the gif creator made this so large.
There are inaccuracy do to how max-pain.com always changes the chart ratios to make this stuff difficult but you get the idea.

View attachment 752200
I think you need one of those “this Video (post) could be hazerdous to people with photosensitive disorders or seizure disorder”. Disclaimers.
 
 
Do not under-estimate how AI and automation in order fulfillment will transform the company away from labor. Like it or not, it's the future and I don't see anyone else as well positioned to take the lead. Hopefully, Rivian is successful in the first stage of this transformation, electrifying the ground delivery fleet, because I can smell the fumes when I accept deliveries. I'm looking forward to the delivery fleets of USPS, Amazon, FedEx being fully electrified in a big way. They have huge pollution footprints.

Eventually someday yes, but you’re probably looking at 2030+ before that happens.

…and what IP and know how does Amazon have that will allow them to uniquely profit from this? It looks like it’s (automated warehousing) heading towards commoditization, and hell, Tesla could be profiting more than Amazon from Amazon by selling them the robots!
 
Compensation?? Quite the opposite! (unless you Dutch guys want to take up a collection for me...?) We have WASH rules that we have to essentially pay tax on our losses (I guess because to our government it looks like a tax-avoidance scheme or something).
Wow. Had to look that up..
The wash-sale rule is an Internal Revenue Service (IRS) regulation that prevents a taxpayer from taking a tax deduction for a security sold in a wash sale. The rule defines a wash sale as one that occurs when an individual sells or trades a security at a loss and, within 30 days before or after this sale, buys a "substantially identical" stock or security, or acquires a contract or option to do so.

A wash sale also results if an individual sells a security, and the individual's spouse or a company controlled by the individual buys a substantially equivalent security.
The Dutch tax service simply assumes a 4% capital gain each year and taxes that gain for about 30%. We end up paying roughly 1.5% over any capital beyond a certain threshold (around 70k, I believe). However, there has very recently been court ruling against the 4% imaginary gains, meaning this can no longer be used by the tax service here. Seeing that near everything from the US tends to eventually get copied here, I'm sure we'll end up with equally miserable taxation before the decade is over.


Excuse the off-topicness of this post, this is my last one on the topic..
 
Nope. Perfect timing with the labor universe.... Teslabot

…and by then automated warehousing will be commoditized, and Tesla will be making more profit off of Amazon than Amazon themselves through the sale of the Tesla bots.

I will also laugh if/when Starlink makes their own AWS competitor that uses the global laser interlink as a backbone.
 
It’s clear that neither Ford nor Volkswagen have the desire or capability to build their own system, and are content with buying a system from Mobileye. Smaller car manufacturers have even less capability here. When Mobileye IPO’s again sometime this year, I’m considering buying some as they will probably give a nice return over the next decade, and as a hedge in case something goes terribly wrong with FSD.

While investing in the IPO could make some nice shorter-term returns before the autonomy market is mature, I really don't think your investment strategy of buying Mobileye for returns over a decade (in case something goes terribly wrong with FSD) makes a whole lot of sense.

Things are always going terribly wrong with FSD and the FSD team regroups and takes a more viable approach. They are not stuck on one path. My returns over the decades have provided me with a very nice life because I did not use the "scattershot" approach to investing. I minimized risk primarily in two ways:

1) Carefully analyzing situations and only applying real money when I could see the relative certainty of success. Risk to reward.
2) Using enough diversification that I wouldn't have to start over if I was wrong but not so much diversification that my results were overly diluted.

It pays in a big way to be right, and I can generally find investments that have, relatively speaking, a "lock" on things. True, the situation can always change in the future, but this can be mitigated by keeping up on the fundamental developments and using the "sell" or "buy" buttons as the facts change. I'm speaking of strategic, longer-term selling (when you think your investment thesis has weakened) and buying based on careful analysis that the odds now favor a different player. If you need to use the scattershot approach on a long-term basis, there are probably better investments. Fortunately, an investment in TSLA does not depend upon FSD being dominant or even successful. But I think it very likely because the FSD team is thinking about the problem in the way that makes the most sense.

I don't see LIDAR as being a useful "fallback" or "safety check" for autonomous driving in the next decade (and probably not ever). The reason for this has to do with the fundamental problem of which signal to believe. Can the car drive on pure vision or not? If it can't, I don't see how LIDAR is going to fix it. Autonomy will happen when vision is good enough. I think Musk and team made a sound decision here. As an investor. I'm confident enough of this that I don't want to spread my investment capital around in case I'm wrong. I would rather invest in other fields where I have identified good opportunity that I have good confidence than hedge my TSLA bet on a strategy that I think is probably flawed. Mobileye may very well be successful and make a good business in the autonomous space, but you have to apply your capital where you can see with good clarity that the risk/reward is the greatest. Scattershot investing is not how I was able to make huge returns while protecting my capital from being wiped out.

Investors need to avoid as many losses as possible - it's all about superior risk to reward. Mobileye IPO position makes the most sense as a speculative shorter-term play that it will run up in value before autonomy is well solved. Of course, the wisdom of even a shorter-term speculative play is dependent upon the IPO price which is still an unknown. Not to mention the state of Tesla's FSD when the Mobileye IPO happens.

My primary point here is scattershot investing is not a friend of the individual investor. Be deliberate.
 
Recycling from scrap will be a significant portion of feed materials in the short term.
Yep Redwood has a facility getting setup in Reno that will use scrap and recycled material for a million vehicles cathode and anodes. No idea how much is going to be scrap and how much recycled but it's good that they are addressing such a fundamental supply chain problem.