Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[st_lopes]

All this panel gap talk... anyone else just think that whomever picked up the car should have just flagged the issues to service and they would have made reasonable corrections?

It’s senseless to sensationalize things that service will simply just fix...

 

[Singuy]

Also about how the Chinese think. The Chinese never regards domestic brands as "high end" even when they try their best to be. There's a stigma that imported goods are considered to be high in luxury as the Chinese has a distrust for domestic brands. This is the result of years of fraudulent behaviors associated with Chinese brands. This has strong precedents and have cemented in us Chinese that domestic brands are guilty until proven innocent.

I remember back in the 1980s, we had to manually spend hours picking rocks out of our rice as the people we purchase from do these kind of fraudulent things. There was a huge debacle with lead in paints, infant formula resulting in overgrown baby's head, and recently Luckin Coffee cooking the books. These behaviors are rampant and intertwined into the lives of the Chinese. When at a hospital, the MD will suggest their patients to pay extra out of pocket for imported medical equipment such as tubing and stents as there's a large distrust on Chinese made ones. My parents said their newly painted townhouse faded only after 2 years outside in the sun. You have to realize that Chinese people are being conned daily buying goods off the streets. So the stain of domestic brand is real and don't let all these other people tell you how we are patriotic for domestic brands. It's totally the opposite. This is how Tesla no matter how much FUD there is, not one Chinese person cares because secretly they think a NIO car will one day explode and the CEO escape to Taiwan with all his money.

 

[Brian121]

I think only shareholders make a huge deal about Nio. Chinese people actually don't know much about NIO as BYD is their actual go to in the EV segment. Also Tesla is part of the BBA club while NIO is not even a player.

Source: My parents who listen to Chinese news

BYD is considered to be old school EV in China, not trendy, not chick, but sell a lot, solid, just like Buffett. NIO, Weima (Weirdmester?), Xiaopeng (XPEV), Li Xiang (Li) are considered new black horse and cool.

Yes, Tesla is in BBA club, but if Tesla don't have build quality of BBA, or Toyota, or even Hyundai for that matter, then it open itself up to other player's attack.

Recently, due to the feud with the stolen IP by XIEV from Tesla, XPEV sponsered a bunch of FUD articles in China that Tesla Shanghai has started to sue some of the publishers.

Why give them extra ammunition?

 

[Singuy]

BYD is considered to be old school EV in China, not trendy, not chick, but sell a lot, solid, just like Buffett. NIO, Weima (Weirdmester?), Xiaopeng (XPEV), Li Xiang (Li) are considered new black horse and cool.

Yes, Tesla is in BBA club, but if Tesla don't have build quality of BBA, or Toyota, or even Hyundai for that matter, then it open itself up to other player's attack.

Recently, due to the feud with the stolen IP by XIEV from Tesla, XPEV sponsered a bunch of FUD articles in China that Tesla Shanghai has started to sue some of the publishers.

Why give them extra ammunition?

Look, the Chinese only cares about one thing and that's prestige. Not how seat belts are shaped..they just care if they have face when visiting their friends. Tesla's image is "future cars made by future man". That's it..Elon's SpaceX company is what gives Tesla prestige and that's all that matters. Elon splashing some SpaceX tech into the cars doesn't hurt either. Given how people get scratches and dents on their car weekly, the last thing Chinese people worry about is small cosmetic issues. They only care what their neighbors think of them...that's it.

 

[cusetownusa]

I agree completely. We had some physical imperfections with both of our vehicles; which I chose to not even mention to my wife. I no longer see these imperfections and absolutely love both our P3 and LRX.

Sandy mentioned in a recent investor meeting that he sold all of his tesla stock to invest in “a different ev stock”. I hope he doesn’t go the way of electrek in this regard.

it also raises an issue with me of people who feel the need to sell all of their stake in any company. Unless you feel that the business or strategy has fundamentally diverged from your goals or beliefs. IMHO it’s much more sensible to trim the position. This makes it much easier to rebuild that position later whilst enjoying the financial freedoms that come with ‘cashing in’ on some of the gains/profits that have been recognized. As opposed to paying 30+% taxes on the entire position.

Selling all of a particular position creates a significant psychological barrier to re-entry, and appears to present a psychological conflict of objectivity.

Did he say what EV stock he went into? Asking for a friend.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

ok I give up.

What's a BBA ?

 

[Singuy]

ok I give up. What's a BBA ?

BWM, Benz, Audi

 

[Brian121]

Look, the Chinese only cares about one thing and that's prestige. Not how seat belts are shaped..they just care if they have face when visiting their friends. Tesla's image is "future cars made by future man". That's it..Elon's SpaceX company is what gives Tesla prestige and that's all that matters. Given how people get scratches and dents on their car weekly, the last thing Chinese people worry about is small cosmetic issues. They only care what their neighbors think of them...that's it.

Let's not stretch us too far here. If Tesla cannot, or do not want to fix a thing even Hyundai can master and somehow people think it is normal, then I am afraid we are in an echo chamber, and it's not a good thing. Look, I just want my car to look great. Watch Monroe video carefully, not just the panel gap, but one of the panel bulge up too.

I rest my case, will not continue this topic anymore. Thanks for your time. I followed Tesla from 2012 and journeyed along through numerous up and downs. It is my passion and frankly, 80% of my weekend entertainment.

I truely wish Tesla well. But sometimes pampering you baby is not the best way to love.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

as in German luxury brands ?

BMW & Benz, I get but doesn't Audi = glorified Volkswagen ?

 

[Singuy]

Let's not stretch us too far here. If Tesla cannot, or do not want to fix a thing even Hyundai can master, then I am afraid we are in an echo chamber here, and it's not a good thing. Look, I just want my car to good great. Watch Monroe video carefully, not just the panel gap, but one of the panel bulge up too.

I rest my case, will not continue this topic anymore. Thanks for your time

Hey no one is happy about panel problems and I'm more critical than anyone here about it. It does boggle my mind that Tesla seems to send out cars with quality control issues still. But it's also not a huge deal as to why Chinese people buy Teslas. I mean those things can be fixed fast and cheap in China. People there just want the new toy made by Elon Musk. Everything else is a distant second as the people there naturally has a tendency of putting strong engineers on a pedestal.

 

[JRP3]

All this panel gap talk... anyone else just think that whomever picked up the car should have just flagged the issues to service and they would have made reasonable corrections?

It’s senseless to sensationalize things that service will simply just fix...

It's senseless to rationalize issues that never should have left the factory. Service shouldn't be doing factory QC after the fact. Besides the bad impression it costs the company money and causes service delays for other problems.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

Energy stocks could pull a Tesla and go parabolic in 2021, Fundstrat's Tom Lee says


"Energy stocks could see a reversal in fortunes this year after a dismal showing in 2020 and stage a parabolic surge like Tesla, Fundstrat's Tom Lee said in a note on Thursday."


It is interesting how Tesla is now being used as an investment by which others are compared.

 

[FreqFlyer]

Is there some functional, as opposed to cosmetic, problem with these minor build issues? Does anybody care other than manufacturing wonks? My guess is that almost nobody even sees these details. I know I would be irritated for about five minutes and then never even notice it again.

And the fix is obvious and no doubt being worked. There are tiny variations in stamped parts, and everything else. Probably the mega casting reduces one area of variation. Clearly there must be automatic choosing going on, where a part that's slightly out of spec gets mated with another that is also slightly out of spec in a way that will compensate rather than exaggerate the problem. The fastening points, whether they be bolts or welds no doubt have a little wiggle room which can be exploited to true things up as well. It just has to be implemented properly, and that means not by people eyeballing things. This is how you make manufacturing better.

I'm quite sure those passenger side problems were deemed acceptable because they work just fine. And I notice that there was comparison only with perfection, not with how similarly priced cars typically are delivered. Doesn't seem reasonable to me. Did you notice how perfunctory Sandy was about perfection on the driver's side? He expected perfection.

So ask yourself about what the mission is: how is it served by slowing things down to achieve perfection? I think what you always want is to be as fast as possible while being good enough, and working on getting better in all ways. But cosmetic perfection deserves to be way down on the list of necessities. It's a nice to have, but good enough will do.

No one dropping $50K on a car should "look" the other way on quality because of the "Mission" (?)(WHISKEY TANGO........) That is an excuse for sloppy workmanship. The Chinese customer does not share that same sentiment and looking at the quality coming of the factory over there neither do teh Tesla's China employees, their quality is top notch. Something has been going on at Freemont and no, its not the "older" tooling. Will be interesting to compare quality of product between Freemont and Austin when it opens.

I appreciate that Elon has higher standards for the product than some here.

 

[Nocturnal]

With the S/X refresh, and especially now that they share a line, I'm hoping that the vehicles are sharing more parts than they do as of now.

Tesla has no interest in taking any wind out of their (not actually) competitors' sails. That would go against the mission. Tesla can't possibly supply all the EV buyers out there.

Sure they do. I don't believe for a second that Elon doesn't have interest in beating competitors to market. That forces them to act even faster, which is better for the mission.

Correct. Tesla has an interest in making them try harder and do better.

And the best way to do that is to big a quality product to market instead of letting said competitors wallow in mediocrity without competition.

 

[ZeApelido]

Slow 3-day weekend Tesla news cycle. . . we need some leak about S/X refresh, 4680 timeline accelerating, Semi "coming soon" . . . or something.

Sounds like you need something strong.

Spoiler

 

[ZeApelido]

There’s truth in German stereotypes

Undying infatuation with David Hasselhoff?

 

[MP3Mike]

Let me give you an example of how Chinese think differently than American. I recently watched a couple of Tesla MIC Y review Vlog on bilibili. In order to have the seat belt accommodate the raised seat for driver seat in Model Y, the seat belt anchoring leg has a bar like extension cord. And they giggle about it, mostly kind hearted, "American designed car, what can you expect? Solve the problem, functioning, but ugly". For us American, we don't care, nobody ever raised the issue. It's works, and the design saves cost by making Y being able to share parts with the 3, why not. But Chinese care about these type of cosmetic thing. Attached image of the Youtube version of the same video is at the moment they poke fun at the Tesla Model Y driver side seat belt extension cord.

Of course that "extension" has nothing to do with sharing parts with the Model 3. That is to allow the seat to height adjustable while the seat belt is anchored to the frame. So it is safer than the automakers that mount the seat belt to the seat.

 

[st_lopes]

It's senseless to rationalize issues that never should have left the factory. Service shouldn't be doing factory QC after the fact. Besides the bad impression it costs the company money and causes service delays for other problems.

Unless you have QC data that shows Tesla actually has disproportionate QC issues coming off their lines right now, relative to any other brand, we are all just reacting to one YouTube video right now.

Get some real data, don’t just let the preconceived notion built after years of FUD settle in. For every panel gap video, you could easily find exponentially more of ecstatic owners with perfect vehicles.

People invest way too much of their energy on this particular topic - and it’s OT - unless you have data that actually proves it would impact our investment thesis.

 

[Brian121]

Of course that "extension" has nothing to do with sharing parts with the Model 3. That is to allow the seat to height adjustable while the seat belt is anchored to the frame. So it is safer than the automakers that mount the seat belt to the seat.

Thanks for the knowledge. I am going to the source video to fight this FUD, RIGHT NOW! Just need you to translate this to Chinese please! And in a meaner version.

 

[JRP3]

Unless you have QC data that shows Tesla actually has disproportionate QC issues coming off their lines right now, relative to any other brand, we are all just reacting to one YouTube video right now.

Get some real data, don’t just let the preconceived notion built after years of FUD settle in. For every panel gap video, you could easily find exponentially more of ecstatic owners with perfect vehicles.

People invest way too much of their energy on this particular topic - and it’s OT - unless you have data that actually proves it would impact our investment thesis.

It's been a long time and ongoing vector of attack for Tesla. I've seen enough quality and service issues over the years to know it's not just an isolated incident. As I said too many of these vehicles end up getting media exposure for it to be a rare occurrence. The odds that Munro just happened to get an outlier are rather low.