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Not even a penny of it? :eek:

No. Nobody even knows what it means.

People just be getting their free shares, some people be getting out of their options because they either have no clue what stock dividend means, or they know what it means and it ain’t good for them, some people be getting into options because they think SP goes up on the news, that split is bullish, some people be grabbing a few bucks of profit near end of day and then there’s me; happy as a pig in trough of slop.

So, no. Got nothing to do with Tesla about to turn Chinese auto insurance industry on its ear. Maybe someone from China can give us some color.
 
Sorry all this tax talk I had to check my International Guide to Capital Gain's Taxes [based on my personal travel insights]:

For each TSLA share you sell, you need to give away:

Belgium: 10 Duvel beers
Netherlands: 1 bicycle
Sweden: 1 sh**ty IKEA bed
Denmark: 1,000,000 Lego pieces
Germany: 100 hardbread cucumber "sandwiches"
Russia: 1 Russian COVID19 vaccine to the politician of your choice
Spain: Your mullet
U.S. 10 pairs of cargo shorts
U.K. Your teeth
Australia: 50 bottles of sunscreen
China: A child
Canada: 10 bottles of maple syrup
Brazil: All nasalized vowels
Colombia: 1 lb of pulverized coca leafs
Morocco: 50 lbs of mint tea
Japan: 100 bottles of Porcari Sweat
Thailand: 10 framed pictures of the King
Peru: 20 pisco sours


Norway: 1 bottle of Akevitt
 
Sorry all this tax talk I had to check my International Guide to Capital Gain's Taxes [based on my personal travel insights]:

For each TSLA share you sell, you need to give away:

Belgium: 10 Duvel beers
Netherlands: 1 bicycle
Sweden: 1 sh**ty IKEA bed
Denmark: 1,000,000 Lego pieces
Germany: 100 hardbread cucumber "sandwiches"
Russia: 1 Russian COVID19 vaccine to the politician of your choice
Spain: Your mullet
U.S. 10 pairs of cargo shorts
U.K. Your teeth
Australia: 50 bottles of sunscreen
China: A child
Canada: 10 bottles of maple syrup
Brazil: All nasalized vowels
Colombia: 1 lb of pulverized coca leafs
Morocco: 50 lbs of mint tea
Japan: 100 bottles of Porcari Sweat
Thailand: 10 framed pictures of the King
Peru: 20 pisco sours
:eek::eek: Do you have ANY idea what 1,000,000 Lego bricks costs???! I have some 90,000 bricks in my collection, and I've bought Lego for a looong time.
 
Interesting bit of news from the residential solar side of things.

Certified third-party Tesla Powerwall installers on Reddit are saying Tesla is now no longer providing them with Powerwalls until 2021: Tesla Powerwalls Out of Stock : solar

As far as I know, there's no delay on Powerwalls installed by Tesla first-party, so it sounds like they are reserving a certain percentage for their own solar installations.
 
After-hours baseless speculation / conspiracy theory:

This is simultaneously a stock split and a stock dividend. Tesla is planning a secondary offering to appease the S&P committee, and is going to use using the money to finance the stock dividend to burn the shorts.
you did read my post just above the one you quoted?
I was trying to make the board feel more like it has for the last month.:cool:
I am an ant. I have no feelings.
 
After-hours baseless speculation / conspiracy theory:

This is simultaneously a stock split and a stock dividend. Tesla is planning a secondary offering to appease the S&P committee, and is going to use using the money to finance the stock dividend to burn the shorts.
It's gotta be reiterated that this is a very straightforward operation.
I caught disagrees for saying that the verbage used for the stock split announcement is TYPICAL and nothing to worry about. I don't care on a personal level about the disagrees but I am a little concerned for anyone that legitimately DOES disagree.

That word "dividend" has been featured in every stock split I've been a part of. Admittedly that's been a few years but it's just not that exotic. It is NORMAL.

It's been done a million times and it is not complicated and it does not have pork stuffed in it like a bill in the senate

This is a straightforward and normal stock split.
Stock splits are generally bullish for reasons that are largely but not strictly psychological.
Nothing weird is gonna happen.
Short squeeze likely anyway.
 
Interesting bit of news from the residential solar side of things.

Certified third-party Tesla Powerwall installers on Reddit are saying Tesla is now no longer providing them with Powerwalls until 2021: Tesla Powerwalls Out of Stock : solar

As far as I know, there's no delay on Powerwalls installed by Tesla first-party, so it sounds like they are reserving a certain percentage for their own solar installations.
Speculation? Tesla's building a new factory for new batteries, and only has enough powerwalls in inventory to do their own installs till then... or reduced capacity while converting the rest of the Powerwall plant to the new batteries.
 
Let be me clear, I'm not an expert in this field, but worried about how this will affect me (Finland). From what I understand I would have to pay as follows:

Based on
Taxation of dividends in kind

4 new shares as dividend, average price on 31.8 $300. That is $1200 is considered dividend.... and the dividen tax is 30%. So basically 30% dividend tax on $1200 euro.... I think the Finnish tax code is pretty clear, or is it something I'm missing?

The following might help you to decide what to do:

This issue is highly country-specific as noted by several German, Belgian, Dutch, UK, etc. forum members. I've spent whole day speaking with several tax specialists and unfortunately the initial answer is not very promising. The rule in Finland is pretty clear: Stock dividends (= most likely including split-style stock dividends) are always taxable events. The tax is based on the real market value of the dividend shares (calculated as weighted avg market price of the first trading day). It's also mentioned in the link you posted: "The market value of the share of a publicly listed company is the weighted average quote of the day in question."

Even though this situation really sucks I'll probably ride the storm anyway. There isn't any significant tax difference if I sell everything now and re-buy later. Capital gain taxes would be huge anyway having a cost-basis of roughly $250 (avg). In this stock dividend -scenario the only good part is that the actual payment date of the tax can be delayed since the amount is not automatically deducted from the account balance AFAIK. However, this could vary depending on where your broker is located. According to tax professionals it's usually possible to negotiate some additional payment time in situations like this. I need to pay 2% interest to tax authorities (roughly the same as regular margin would cost).

Considering the relatively low 2% interest and 1-3 year outlook of TSLA I decided not to cash-out completely despite the situation.
  • Good thing: I still made a lot of money owning this stock. Way way more than most retails make in their life.
  • Bad thing: Exactly 80% of my current TSLA position value will be taxed at a rate of roughly 30%. Not optimal situation, but one could say this is the flip side of free healthcare, free university education, etc...
  • Worst thing: This is unlikely to be the last TSLA split I must suffer.
  • Optimistic thing: If I sell now I'd create a tax event which cannot be reversed in any case. If I do not sell now I still have a slight chance to negotiate with the tax authorities.
Seems like there is not much I can do about it. Burn Delaware? </s> Burn my passport? It's about to expire anyway in October. This is the deal: get me fresh nationality by next week and I'll get you Model 3 with fuzzy dices of your choice. Anyone?
 
This stock split does mean that the shares that I bought at 420 and 888.88 will lose their cachet. Utterly. I'm devastated. Inconsolable.

You'll soon be able to buy them again, at those prices. ;)
 

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OK, I've been trying to ignore all this taxation stuff, but doesn't it really come down to:

1) For each share you own, you're getting 4 new shares at 0.20 * $X each
2) Each existing share is worth only 0.20 * $X, so it's lost value.

In other words, anything you might have "gained" on the new shares is balanced by the "loss" in value of the existing share.

How can that not be a wash?
 
This sustained price action after brief consolidation periods has all the markings of MMs trying to get neutral on their naked short positions. I expect us to close around 1550 today. There is just a lot of demand and not enough supply. I think the shorts or day traders know not get in front of this train now.

TSLA chart was already showing signs of bullishness prior to the announcement. We will see 1300 in the future again but not on the way down!
Spot on!
 
In the above case - you are 100% right.

However, the mechanism of taxation is not as simple as that in some countries under certain accounts. I wish it was.

We are completely on the same page that the total value of the stock has not changed pre- and post split in the eyes of the shareholder ie 1 X1500 & 5X300 both = $1500. The trouble is how the technicality of the tax code is applied to the word "dividend" in countries outside the US.

Below is my - admittedly non-accountant understanding of this:

For example in Canada we have a TFSA account that allows capital gains to grow tax free, once the money is in the account. For regular retirement accounts (RRSP but not TFSA) Canada has a tax treaty with the US that is in place for anything called a dividend, where the US government withholds 15% of the "dividend", but it is recoverable / recovered to the Canadian taxpayer - so the net result is zero.

for TFSA accounts, the 15% US withholding tax is not recoverable - this is what some fear could result in net taxation. FWIW - TFSA accounts don't tax capital gains - but they also don't allow you to offset losses either.

So even though there is no net change to the total pie pre and post stock split - the word "dividend" could trigger this weird tax event for people in a number of countries.

Im looking for some concrete evidence that this would not be the case. i.e a past similar stock ? or a CRA bulletin ?(our equivalent to the IRS) bulletin.

I am hoping to find some concrete evidence that Im wrong on this - otherwise I would need to take steps with my shares to solve for this.

Of course - Not advice, and I invite evidence based corrections to my understanding of this.

Realizing this is my first post so I am providing some background. I’ve been a shareholder since SCTY was acquired by TSLA. At that time, I was one of those investors that shied away from psychologically expensive stocks. I wanted to buy something Elon was involved with, and couldn’t bring myself to spend hundreds for TSLA when I could spend tens for SCTY. After all I could buy more shares of one, own more of the pie (absent actually looking at what the available float was for each). Since then, I’ve bought significantly more shares, LEAPS, and have sold premium through options wheels. All that to say, I am a strong believer of the mission, a Teslannaire, and really appreciate all of the amazing content generated by this community.

I am Canadian. I am a CPA, CA (Canada has multiple legacy accounting designations) with a specialization in Tax. I professionally practice in corporate taxation, dabble in personal taxation, and am employed by the largest accounting firm in the world. This post is aimed at my Canadian compatriots @Tes La Ferrari @Artful Dodger (and others that I have missed). The vast majority of my holdings are in TFSAs (save for options wheeling gains which are all on unregistered margin accounts). After several years of lurking, I felt it time to give back to this community.

That said, this is not advice, but it is how I will be treating my personal holdings.

TL;DR: This is not a taxable event to Canadians. This should not give rise to a 15% withholding tax on distribution of new shares.

CRA (our IRS) Interpretations

IT882-R2 Stock Dividends
ARCHIVED - Stock dividends - Canada.ca

All described dividends in this interpretation bulletin relate to scenarios where shareholders are receiving additional value or benefits in the form of additional shares, either of the company in question or in-kind of another company (occurs in spin offs or in share capital reorganizations). Where the distribution is in the context of a stock split, it points to IT-65.

IT-65 Stock Splits and Consolidations
ARCHIVED - Stock splits and consolidations - Canada.ca

The contemplated transaction falls squarely into the definition described in this document.

“Where all the shares of a class of stock of a corporation are replaced by a greater or lesser number of shares of the same class of stock of the same corporation in the same proportion for all shareholders, in circumstances where there is no change in the total capital represented by the issue [...]”

In such an event, there would be no deemed acquisition or disposition of shares. In other words, no taxable events. It also points to how you would derive your adjusted base on the new shares, though not relevant to TFSA holdings, the gist is that you would split the cost basis of your original holdings over your new holdings.

Court Cases

There are several Canadian court cases dealing with share distributions, and they tend to lean in the same direction. Unless there has been a clear conferral of additional value to shareholders, there is no taxable event. Without a taxable event, you don’t get in to withholding requirements.

Other Considerations

Where shareholders would have the OPTION of receiving either cash or shares as part of the transaction, even if they opt for shares, there would be taxable event. Conceptually, since the shareholder has the choice to receive cash, this would then be considered a deemed disposition. This is not the case here.

Conclusion

Absent there being additional details on the structure of the stock split, this does not appear to be a taxable event and should not be subject to the 15% withholding tax typical to dividends received by Canadians from US entities.

In other words, per my read of available SEC filings and Tesla press release, combined with publicly available interpretation bulletins, searching available tax research databases available to me, and discussions with colleagues specialized in cross border personal tax matters, this is not a taxable event, and should not be subject to the 15% withholding tax typically applicable to dividends received by Canadian tax residents from US equities.
 
The following might help you to decide what to do:

This issue is highly country-specific as noted by several German, Belgian, Dutch, UK, etc. forum members. I've spent whole day speaking with several tax specialists and unfortunately the initial answer is not very promising. The rule in Finland is pretty clear: Stock dividends (= most likely including split-style stock dividends) are always taxable events. The tax is based on the real market value of the dividend shares (calculated as weighted avg market price of the first trading day). It's also mentioned in the link you posted: "The market value of the share of a publicly listed company is the weighted average quote of the day in question."

Even though this situation really sucks I'll probably ride the storm anyway. There isn't any significant tax difference if I sell everything now and re-buy later. Capital gain taxes would be huge anyway having a cost-basis of roughly $250 (avg). In this stock dividend -scenario the only good part is that the actual payment date of the tax can be delayed since the amount is not automatically deducted from the account balance AFAIK. However, this could vary depending on where your broker is located. According to tax professionals it's usually possible to negotiate some additional payment time in situations like this. I need to pay 2% interest to tax authorities (roughly the same as regular margin would cost).

Considering the relatively low 2% interest and 1-3 year outlook of TSLA I decided not to cash-out completely despite the situation.
  • Good thing: I still made a lot of money owning this stock. Way way more than most retails make in their life.
  • Bad thing: Exactly 80% of my current TSLA position value will be taxed at a rate of roughly 30%. Not optimal situation, but one could say this is the flip side of free healthcare, free university education, etc...
  • Worst thing: This is unlikely to be the last TSLA split I must suffer.
  • Optimistic thing: If I sell now I'd create a tax event which cannot be reversed in any case. If I do not sell now I still have a slight chance to negotiate with the tax authorities.
Seems like there is not much I can do about it. Burn Delaware? </s> Burn my passport? It's about to expire anyway in October. This is the deal: get me fresh nationality by next week and I'll get you Model 3 with fuzzy dices of your choice. Anyone?

That's very bad news and creates a ton of uncertainty for me and many international shareholders. Looks like a devastating event for international stockholders who fall under similar rules. We have been at that point before when Elon declared to consider taking Tesla private which would have led to a similar squeeze out for international shareholders. Luckily that did not happen.

Since this sounds to be confirmed in Finland the likelihood that despite all logic the same applies in Germany is increasing while here the taxes will be automatically deducted from your bank account if the depot decides to do so. There is no negotiation and many including me would be forced to sell a ton of shares. From the 80% all shares taxed in Germany its about 26% which translates in 20% lost value.

That's literally a squeeze out for 20% of all shares you own to compensate for taxes you did not gain through a stock value increase. That will create quite some sell pressure and is definitely not intended from Tesla.

What other countries can confirm to have the same issue? I've seen countries listed above but who can confirm.

Wow, I really am quite shocked!