Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[StarFoxisDown!]

I disagree; I've "butt opened" all sorts of apps to weird screens (multi-click). I'm sure it was an accident. Multi-thousand-dollar payments should not be accessible without typing a password; that's just basic logic.

Except that the purchase has to be confirmed on "separate" screen. It's impossible to butt dial through the entire process.

I do agree that making it require password input should be a no brainer to protect people from themselves.

 

[Todd Burch]

Petition opened by a short seller as the stock is peaking, on behalf of a bunch of other people cause he’s “nice”.

It’s nonsense. Probably not worth discussing even here.

 

[KarenRei]

Except that the purchase has to be confirmed on "separate" screen. It's impossible to butt dial through the entire process.

What part of "multi-click" or "to weird screens" wasn't clear? Sometimes it's found its way into screens inside apps that I didn't even know existed

 

[KarenRei]

Petition opened by a short seller as the stock is peaking, on behalf of a bunch of other people cause he’s “nice”.

It’s nonsense. Probably not worth discussing even here.

It's only worth discussing for the reason that BS like this impacts the stock price. :Þ

 

[Singuy]

Unintended Acceleration Incidents have been going on for decades and every investigation has ended up identifying "operator error" as the cause. No matter what is done, short of ubiquitous RoboTaxi's, Joe Boatfoot and Betty Dumbtoes will continue to drive through garage walls and fitness centers while "braking".

@Runt8 provided a link to wk057's excellent post on the topic

Correct, doesn't stop Tesla from taking away nice things due to stupid people. This is why we have a nag every 20 second on AP.

 

[EinSV]

The thread below has detailed technical explanations for why it is impossible for a Tesla to have a sudden acceleration event without the Go pedal being pressed.

This is just a distraction from a short seller wasting government resources.

Sudden Unintended Acceleration

 

[Singuy]

The thread below has detailed technical explanations for why it is impossible for a Tesla to accelerate without the Go pedal being pressed.

This is just a distraction from a short seller wasting government resources.

Sudden Unintended Acceleration

Well it's not true that a Tesla cannot accelerate without the Go pedal being pressed. Every Tesla can accelerate without pedal manipulation while in AP or EAP. So the accelerator can be controlled by the car's onboard computer.

 

[jdw]

Well it's not true that a Tesla cannot accelerate without the Go pedal being pressed. Every Tesla can accelerate without pedal manipulation while in AP or EAP. So the accelerator can be controlled by the car's onboard computer.

Nobody uses AutoPilot while parking, which is when the majority of these incidents occur. AP cannot override the driver, in any event.

 

[MP3Mike]

NHTSA Action Code DP20001
Status: Open Investigation
1/13/2020

View attachment 501589

Did you bother to look at the details under that?

On December 19, 2019, the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) received a defect petition by email requesting a defect investigation of alleged sudden unintended acceleration in model year (MY) 2012 through 2019 Tesla Model S, MY 2016 through 2019 Tesla Model X, and MY 2018 through 2019 Tesla Model 3 vehicles. In support of his request, the petitioner cited 127 consumer complaints to NHTSA involving 123 unique vehicles. The reports include 110 crashes and 52 injuries.

A copy of the petition will be added to the public file for this defect petition and ODI will evaluate the petitioner's allegations to determine if the petition should be granted or denied. If the petition is granted, ODI will open a defect investigation; if the petition is denied, ODI will publish a notice in the Federal Register.

So I still think you are misunderstanding. They are investigating the defect petition to decide if they should grant a full blown investigation or not. If the petition is granted they will assign a EA or PE case number to go further. (My understanding.)

The NHTSA procedure/terminology confuses people. The same misunderstanding happened before about DP19-005 that still isn't an actual investigation despite what the NHTSA site says: Russ Mitchell on Twitter

Russ Mitchell
@russ1mitchell
·
Nov 1, 2019

Note: NHTSA informs me that the Tesla fire inquiry is technically not an “investigation” but rather a “defect petition.” To avoid argument over plain-English definitions, we are changing the language in our story from “investigation” to “probe.”

 

[agloutney]

I missed this report about unitended acceleration

anyone hear of an actual case(from a real Telsa Owner) of this happening or are the just figuring the Toyota debacle with the floor mats and the accelerator pedals could be used to get this sort of thing going

My Model S has never had unintended acceleration ... a lot of "intended acceleration" (which by the way does worry me as more dum-dums purchase Tesla's) ... too much power in the wrong hands problem... i am concerned about this ... really

“with great power comes great responsibility”
-Yoda

Instant torque results in more severe consequences when the accelerator is mistaken for the brake. Nothing to see here. All human drivers.

 

[EinSV]

Well it's not true that a Tesla cannot accelerate without the Go pedal being pressed. Every Tesla can accelerate without pedal manipulation while in AP or EAP. So the accelerator can be controlled by the car's onboard computer.

Read the thread. Better yet why not use one of the many sections on sudden acceleration (including the new one in the investor forum) to discuss this (idiotic) topic.

 

[Singuy]

Nobody uses AutoPilot while parking, which is when the majority of these incidents occur. AP cannot override the driver, in any event.

Not saying these incidents have anything to do with AP. Just saying how the onboard computer can accelerate the car without any physical input by the user. Pretty sure all sorts of stars need to line up for that to happen in software.

 

[MP3Mike]

And to give people any idea of how fast the NHTSA decides what to do about a defect petition look at their latest report: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/downloads/monthlyReports/inv/INVMTY-122019-1234.pdf

That is right, they still haven't decided if they are going to grant or deny a petition filed in February of 2013.

And of course they only received 5 petitions in all of 2019, but now that it has gotten out how easy it is to do this I expect that they will be getting a whole lot more of them this year.

 

[Zero CO2]

Medium? Hell, I couldn't get a medium on with a shoe horn. Let me know when the 2XLs are in stock!

ordered mine ... love it

Dan

 

[erha]

In fact it tripled from the $179 low.

I think it's really sensible to keep a buffer of cash, to buy the dip directly or via cash covered puts, or to leverage up some more via calls if there's an opportunity.

Btw., protective puts are often cheaper and allow a higher upside than selling part of the stake.

triple = rise by 200%

 

[HopJokey]

Slight bit of my own antedoctal experience with my late 2016 Model S (AP 2.0). I believe I’ve experienced legitimate “sudden acceleration” a handful of times in the 3 plus years I’ve driven the vehicle. Usually it happens after I drive thru some sort of slope like a speed bump. I would let go of the accelerator looking to regen brake but then the car would suddenly accelerator more out the blue. In these cases I simply hit the hard brake and it was fine.

I never gave these a passing thought except it seemed like a bug. I never felt in danger because I could hard brake and it would be ok.

-Charlie

 

[Zero CO2]

Except that the purchase has to be confirmed on "separate" screen. It's impossible to butt dial through the entire process.

I do agree that making require password input should be a no brainer to protect people from themselves.

I am looking at my Telsa app on my iphone right now and if click the radio button for autopilot the next button to click is apple pay which i have... i am not going to click the apple pay button to find out... but if this completes the transaction it is way too easy for a $3000 purchase... i could be drunk fooling around and end up purchasing ...my sober mind would not do it but after drinking

 

[JusRelax]

Slight bit of my own antedoctal experience with my late 2016 Model S (AP 2.0). I believe I’ve experienced legitimate “sudden acceleration” a handful of times in the 3 plus years I’ve driven the vehicle. Usually it happens after I drive thru some sort of slope like a speed bump, and it felt as if it was noticeably lurching forward.

Without wheels on the ground, the vehicle can no longer regen brake.

I would let go of the accelerator looking to regen brake but then the car would suddenly accelerator more out the blue. In these cases I simply hit the hard brake and it was fine.

I never gave these a passing thought except it seemed like a bug. I never felt in danger because I could hard brake and it would be ok.

-Charlie

This is not unintended acceleration. This happened plenty of times in my Chevy Volt. It may FEEL like acceleration, but is actually just 0 braking. When going over a bump in my Volt, the car would no longer be able to regen brake, which felt like the car lunging forward since it's going from negative acceleration to 0 acceleration.

When the car has no wheels on the ground, the vehicle can no longer regen brake.


Note that going from a negative acceleration to no acceleration feels the same as going from no acceleration to positive acceleration if the magnitude of change is the same.

 

[Zero CO2]

Slight bit of my own antedoctal experience with my late 2016 Model S (AP 2.0). I believe I’ve experienced legitimate “sudden acceleration” a handful of times in the 3 plus years I’ve driven the vehicle. Usually it happens after I drive thru some sort of slope like a speed bump. I would let go of the accelerator looking to regen brake but then the car would suddenly accelerator more out the blue. In these cases I simply hit the hard brake and it was fine.

I never gave these a passing thought except it seemed like a bug. I never felt in danger because I could hard brake and it would be ok.

-Charlie

now that you mention this ... this has happened to me once or twice on a speed bump as you described but not in a the last 2 years... and it is more like "that was weird " and I just kept driving ....

 

[tinm]

Did you bother to look at the details under that?



So I still think you are misunderstanding. They are investigating the defect petition to decide if they should grant a full blown investigation or not. If the petition is granted they will assign a EA or PE case number to go further. (My understanding.)

The NHTSA procedure/terminology confuses people. The same misunderstanding happened before about DP19-005 that still isn't an actual investigation despite what the NHTSA site says: Russ Mitchell on Twitter

Sigh. Yes I read all that. And yes, I brought all that up with the NHTSA person I spoke to on the phone. And she told me, quite emphatically, that the investigation was opened on 1/13/20. And yes, I agree with you, I suspect she was wrong, just reading what the computer screen told her, and then I erroneously took her info as fact. I'm going to try to reach a higher-up within NHTSA's ODI on Monday and see if I can get the real story. Can't trust the first line of folks who answer the phone at a govt agency