Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
People have been saying that for the past couple years but Tesla has been aggressively reducing CapEx/unit capacity. That is a long-term trend that will, if anything, accelerate with Cybertruck.

Basically Wright's law applies to capital expenditures just like other expenses/costs.
Except revenue growth did slow down in 2019 after capex spending was slowed in 2018. So I want to believe that capex is becoming more efficient, but that dollar reductions and outdo efficiency gains.
But the more bullish news is that Tesla took in $2.3 in stock proceeds which is more than it spent on capex in the last 6 quarters. So maybe Tesla is turning the corner and increasing the burn rate.
 
Regarding Giga UK this was published a few days before Elon's jet was tracked arriving in Luton. Now that he is there one can only wonder about the coincidence.

Tesla could build another Gigafactory in the UK: report

quoting PropertyWeek: "The British government is on the hunt for 4m sq ft of industrial space for a potential electric vehicle ‘gigafactory’, Property Week can reveal."
 
(Not picking on you @ripper88 - just using your post as a jumping off point)

I see the v-shaped recovery in the stock market. I don't see the v-shaped recovery in the economy.

So that's what has me cautious (and still in cash, outside of TSLA). I am looking for evidence of the economy improving to match up with the stock market, or the stock market coming down to better match up with the economy. That's my choice of course, and it's more than a guess - it's what I'm doing with my portfolio (so I have $ in it).


An observation in another thread that was eye-opening for me; an economics thread, talking about MMT and other schools of economic thought. The observation is that no, there isn't inflation in our commonly used measure of inflation. The problem is that measure of inflation is a restricted view into the world - it focuses on 'core' stuff (energy, food, clothing, housing) for living. It doesn't include rare art, stock market, commodities, high tech, etc..

There is inflation going on in the world, and it's going on in the stock market right now (or at least, I agree with that observation). So it's possible that this time is different, and that the value of $1 of earnings per share is changing to a new baseline from what it's been historically. It's possible that the long term risk free rate of return is going to be ~0%.

I even subscribe to the notion that we're at the start of a pretty significant reset in our economy similar to the what we experienced in the late 1800s, early 1900s, with that wave of new technologies that so radically changed society and the economy. Cars, electricity, telegraph / telephone. We pretty much hit the trinity of the basis for economic activity (communication, energy, transportation).

I see the internet as being our new communication revolution, with it bringing us approximately zero marginal cost communication.

I see renewable energy bringing us approximately zero marginal cost energy (we've got a few decades for this to manifest, but the cost of energy in the economy is going to be falling steady during that period).

We don't yet have a comparable change in transportation starting, though lower energy cost will help, and autonomous vehicles might bring us approximately zero marginal cost ground transportation (due to the approximately zero marginal cost energy).

EDIT: And the combination of these things will bring about a period of good deflation - cost to get things done in the economy will come down, enabling new economic activity not previously available.


Anyway - back to the original point - maybe those historical measures of valuation and market health are going to revert to their historical values, and maybe they're establishing a new normal. I don't know of course, but I'm positioned assuming regression to something closer to the historical values.
You do realize this is the whole ARK/Cathie Wood inverted yield curve/deflationary boom thesis?
Inverted Yield Curves Are Signaling a Deflationary Boom
 
Except revenue growth did slow down in 2019 after capex spending was slowed in 2018. So I want to believe that capex is becoming more efficient, but that dollar reductions and outdo efficiency gains.
But the more bullish news is that Tesla took in $2.3 in stock proceeds which is more than it spent on capex in the last 6 quarters. So maybe Tesla is turning the corner and increasing the burn rate.

I look at it differently -- basically just a timing artifact. Tesla built Giga Shanghai and Model Y production simultaneously in 2019 but Giga Shanghai only produced a few cars in December and Model Y production didn't begin until January, so neither generated significant revenue in 2019.

In other words, capex was spent in 2019 for Giga Shanghai and Model Y capacity that will generate significant revenue in 2020 and future years.

Put another way, in only one year auto unit capacity increased by 290K units (350K/year to 640K/year) with a very low capex spend. That's crazy efficient use of capital.

ES06RBBUcAApMGG
 
Last edited:
Germany initiates a €130 bn stimulus package with €50bn for future investments that include BEVs and charging infrastructure.

VAT reduced by 3% for all vehicles starting July 1st.

Good news for BEVs but as a result almost no cars will be sold in June.

BEV incentive is doubled for vehicles up to €40 k to €6k plus €3k from manufacturers = €9k

VALID until end of 2021. Thats a bargain
 
I look at it differently -- basically just a timing artifact. Tesla built Giga Shanghai and Model Y production simultaneously in 2019 but Giga Shanghai only produced a few cars in December and Model Y production didn't begin until January, so neither generated significant revenue in 2019.

In other words, capex was spent in 2019 for Giga Shanghai and Model Y capacity that will generate significant revenue in 2020 and future years.
Model Y production in Giga Shanghai has not yet started.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JusRelax
I’ve been hearing this same argument for two months already. But why should history repeat itself? We are in a unique situation, with a forced economic shutdown, big monetary interventions by central banks and governments and few attractive investment alternatives for investors. Maybe this time the stock market reaction will be unique too. Clinging to what happened in the past may cost you money. It has already been costly for thousands of investors who are waiting for that second drop.

P.S. Why does your chart show an S&P that has recovered maybe 30-35% of the drop, while in fact is has already recovered 75%? It doesn’t resemble the historic charts anymore.

it is not my chart ... just thinking about the overall economy tried to find a chart that reflected what i am thinking might happen...50% chance IMO... been investing a long time and it is just my gut feeling at this point...

I would have to think there are going to be a lot of disastrous earning reports in Q2 ... the headlines will bring the market down ... was also hoping to get a reaction from folks

there are also a lot of companies getting ready to let people go with Covid19 as the excuse or a justifiable reason ... many of these people will become underemployed or unemployed .. the interventions are temporary and actually don't work
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: saniflash
If Phase 1 doesn’t look anything like the previous bear markets, why should Phase 3?
i think folks are overestimating the recovery ... it feels disconnected from the reality ... it could be just because i am in NYC and a lot business has basically stopped altogether... we shall see... don't read too much into the chart .. just looked for a chart that reflected my current mindset about the economy going forward next 12-24 months
 
i think folks are overestimating the recovery ... it feels disconnected from the reality ... it could be just because i am in NYC and a lot business has basically stopped altogether... we shall see... don't read too much into the chart .. just looked for a chart that reflected my current mindset about the economy going forward next 12-24 months

It’s absolutely a recovery that is disconnected from economic reality. We know the Fed is largely propping up the broader market. To what extent this has contributed to Tesla’s recovery is less clear, though I’d argue not very much. If anything the Fed action has delayed the separation of wheat from chaff, and this will happen in the coming year.

IMHO if you’re concerned about a macro crash, the period to watch is this November through Jan. Stock market stays propped up until then, even if it’s further and further detached from the reality on Main St.
 
Yeah that's not the case anymore. You might see weakness in TSLA due to Q2 earnings but I doubt you will see a big dip that is macro related. Somebody posted this NASDAQ chart on my twitter feed today. V recovery FTW. QQQ is nearly at ATH.

View attachment 547721
I cant dispute the v recovery to this point ... but a bear rally can have a V component ....not sure i agree about Q2... i think it is going to impact a lot of companies ... we may not see a longer term dip like the other bear markets in the chart... but i think we may see a significant drop from here .... keep an eye on unemployment /underemployment... the political landscape .....covid impacted industries taking a long time to recover ... on the order of years potentially....

don't get me wrong i am mainly suggesting this as i think there will be some TSLA buying opportunities on the horizon.... if i am wrong i am still happy
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sudre
I cant dispute the v recovery to this point ... but a bear rally can have a V component ....not sure i agree about Q2... i think it is going to impact a lot of companies ... we may not see a longer term dip like the other bear markets in the chart... but i think we may see a significant drop from here .... keep an eye on unemployment /underemployment... the political landscape .....covid impacted industries taking a long time to recover ... on the order of years potentially....

don't get me wrong i am mainly suggesting this as i think there will be some TSLA buying opportunities on the horizon.... if i am wrong i am still happy

Still even if the macros are in a bear market and this a fake rally, Tesla is one of the few companies set to experience explosive growth in Q3/Q4 2020 and Q1/Q2 2021.Q1 2021 revenue will likely be more than double Q1 2020. I just don't see buying opportunities once Q3 starts. I mean the bear market could limit some of the gains which create buying opportunities relative to the performance of the company. If Tesla executes Q3 how I think they will and in Q4, the stock is still trading around 1,000-1,100, I'd consider that a good buying opportunity
 
we may not see a longer term dip like the other bear markets in the chart... but i think we may see a significant drop from here .... keep an eye on unemployment /underemployment... the political landscape .....covid impacted industries taking a long time to recover ... on the order of years potentially....

don't get me wrong i am mainly suggesting this as i think there will be some TSLA buying opportunities on the horizon.... if i am wrong i am still happy

Do you believe the markets are forward looking?
If so, would all of these events you mention as possibilities for a pullback not already priced in given where the market is?
Unemployment? The market really couldn’t care less at this point from what I’ve seen.
The market is also practically saying all these events have no impact on Tesla whatsoever.
 
Still even if the macros are in a bear market and this a fake rally, Tesla is one of the few companies set to experience explosive growth in Q3/Q4 2020 and Q1/Q2 2021.Q1 2021 revenue will likely be more than double Q1 2020. I just don't see buying opportunities once Q3 starts. I mean the bear market could limit some of the gains which create buying opportunities relative to the performance of the company. If Tesla executes Q3 how I think they will and in Q4, the stock is still trading around 1,000-1,100, I'd consider that a good buying opportunity
So i ask what happens to TSLA in early Q3... if Q2 deliveries are disappointing (to weak longs and other manipulators) ... while at the same time in July/August Q3 companies are announcing dismal earnings ... I guess i am just getting tired of this pandemic ... i will stop now :D