Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Artful Dodger]

Let me preface my post with this: I have absolutely zero love lost for Lorena Gonzalez. I do not agree with her on many issues. I do, however, expect people of Elon's stature to actually engage in some critical thought before spouting off in a public forum.

I am referring to the below-linked tweet and line of attack. I mean, they're not even wrong in that her attack is politically motivated (she's a politician for crying out loud), they're just right for the wrong reasons. Not a huge deal, just another reminder that Elon is human and absolutely capable of spouting off (at this moment in the form of amplification of an outright misleading statement) before he has a full grasp of the facts.

Elon Musk on Twitter

Again - disappointing.

Again, I guess we have different standards as to what tweeting the single word "interesting" means.

Have you considered other interpretations? I don't see "attack" in that word, wonder where you're getting that from?

But as Wesley said to Inigo Montoya, "Get used to disappointment", because Elon won't change his cognitive style to suit your preferences.

I think you'll find the majority of shareholders, the Board of Directors, and Treasury Secretary Mnuchin agree:

Treasury Secretary Mnuchin sides with Tesla in dispute with California over shutdown

Jus' sayin'

 

[Artful Dodger]

Moreever, as already been said, she is in San Diego. Why it is her business of asserting strong opinion on what's happening in Fremont/Alameda?

Big Labor/UAW/Dems don't like to miss an opportunity to put a move on Telsa Fremont.

It's always "safety" this, "workplace accidents" that, oh "why won't you let the workers unionize?" the other.

They're chomping at the bit to get those 10K+ weekly union dues. Last time UAW was at Fremont, they helped close NUMMI down to protect UAW jobs in Detroit. Now all those jobs are in Mexico, and NUMMI is a non-Union shop.

Did I mention UAW Leaders are charged with fraud?

Former UAW leader and GM director Ashton charged in fraud, money laundering conspiracies

Elon's done well to steer well away from that rabble, IMHO.

Cheers!

 

[Steve m]

Moreever, as already been said, she is in San Diego. Why it is her business of asserting strong opinion on what's happening in Fremont/Alameda?

She is a sponsor of the anti-gig economy law in California. Apparently she thinks people being able to work and make a living is a bad thing.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Finally was able to buy more now that funds cleared. Was a bit of a bummer that I wasn't prepared to take advantge of the low 700 dip last week but at this point I'm just happy to get in before the next big rally happens........and to me at least it definitely feels like its coming soon. Stock could retrace to mid 700s but not worth the risk of it rallying 10-20% on any day

I honestly feel a bit lucky because I figured we would rally hard off of the reports this morning of Fremont works at the factory. I guess buyers feel like they need an "official" announcement but Fremont being back in full production by next week is a lot more of a sure thing today than it was on Friday. It's very obvious that Tesla is moving forward to get ready for full production by having a small workforce there at the factory this week to get things up and running.

My biggest worry/source of anxiety waiting on funds going into this week was that on any day this week after hours, we could get official fremont announcement and/or battery date date and could see a gap up on the next trading day

 

[bubb]

So, um...maybe next time you can remember what happened here and save yourself the trouble of being upset since the outcome always makes everything that came before it moot where Elon, Tesla and TSLA are concerned.

That’s really the bigger lesson here. I’ve watched your story dozens of times over the years; people all bent out of shape, panicked, angry, hurt, upset, whathaveyou only to be ‘oh, would you look at that, the sky is still floating up there’ when they waited a minute for things to run their course.

You don’t have some special insight on how his behavior changes the outcome. Spoiler alert! I’m going to tell you the ending: Win.

You know what I've watched "dozens of times over the years"? An endless parade of people come here for affirmation of their leveraged positions and they often get wiped out by the volatility in this stock, doing crazy *sugar* like buying options with a HELOC.

Feel free to place me on ignore if you find my opinions tedious, you seem like one of the smart & disciplined ones here in terms of managing investment risk and probably don't care to see much about short term minutiae, that's fine. I'd like to see this place stay a forum for all investor discussion with real time reaction, both positive and occasionally skeptical, and not become a de-facto support group for gamblers and love-it-or-leave-it types. I don't see how your rude & dismissive response really contributes to anything other than the latter.

 

[Steve m]

HQ is where the general is.

This statement goes back to inquiry into the Battle of Little Bighorn. The full quote is...

" HQ is where the general is, and the general had been in the field (Douglas, Wyoming, approximates HQ) for more than a year."

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

Big Labor/UAW/Dems don't like to miss an opportunity to put a move on Telsa Fremont.

It's always "safety" this, "workplace accidents" that, oh "why won't you let the workers unionize?" the other.

They're chomping at the bit to get those 10K+ weekly union dues. Last time UAW was at Fremont, they helped close NUMMI down to protect UAW jobs in Detroit. Now all those jobs are in Mexico, and NUMMI is a non-Union shop.

Did I mention UAW Leaders are charged with fraud?

Former UAW leader and GM director Ashton charged in fraud, money laundering conspiracies

Elon's done well to steer well away from that rabble, IMHO.

Cheers!

Yea her subsequent tweet made it very obvious she was motivated by the Union, claiming the factory is "unsafe".
Elon pretty much knows any dealing with the Union = good bye to all innovation.

Unions had a purpose in the early and mid 20th century. We don't need them anymore. Especially in a state like California which has pretty good workers rights policies.

 

[ggr]

There is a huge difference between questioning and denying.

Agreed. There is also a huge difference between being (or questioning) epidemiologist, and the practical question of how to safely open a factory. Does anyone deny that Tesla knows how to do the latter? Who cares about the former?

 

[PeterJA]

Absolutely. The moment someone labels themselves an expert, in the next moment I’m NOT taking their word for it.

Personal experience: experts get stuck in the nice, neat little boxes they create. The truly great ones welcome being challenged to step outside that box and they’re grateful to be shown the way and appreciate the lesson. They’re also the first ones to say, I make mistakes and I’m open to learning and trying something different.

I think medical experts are especially vulnerable to getting stuck in their boxes. Doctors go through hell to earn their credentials: crushing course-loads during med school (which leave little time for a life outside the bubble), hellish long hours and sleep deprivation during internship and residency, and huge debts from school loans. When they finally receive that impressive diploma, there's a natural human tendency to think: "By god, I've paid my dues. Now it's time for me to cash in and get the respect I deserve. Don't tell me some nonsense about vitamins that you read on the Internet." (even if the "nonsense" came from PubMed.org.)

I've also heard of a doctor telling a patient: "Don't tell me about that non-drug treatment. My medical oath requires me to investigate all promising treatments, and I don't have time to investigate it."

 

[TheTalkingMule]

I draw the line at a brand being aligned with and abhorrent tool like Mnuchin. Elon was right to flip out a bit, and I think the brand positioning with the far right took an amazingly positive turn, but this bickering needs to be squashed now that there's a lawsuit involved. Say the right things, be the cooler head, take the victory.

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

I draw the line at a brand being aligned with and abhorrent tool like Mnuchin. Elon was right to flip out a bit, and I think the brand positioning with the far right took an amazingly positive turn, but this bickering needs to be squashed now that there's a lawsuit involved. Say the right things, be the cooler head, take the victory.

Fremont factory parking lot is full today. As long as Alameda doesn't do anything dumb, it's over. I'm assuming once they officially give Tesla the OK to the lawsuit will go away.

 

[ggr]

And to get back off-topic, my portfolio has been in the green for some time this morning due to a nice 12%+ move by Crisper Therapeutics, one of the top holdings in ARK's Genomics Revolution (ARKG) fund.

Also reflected in +6% for ARKG itself.

 

[dgodfrey]

Let me preface my post with this: I have absolutely zero love lost for Lorena Gonzalez. I do not agree with her on many issues. I do, however, expect people of Elon's stature to actually engage in some critical thought before spouting off in a public forum.

I am referring to the below-linked tweet and line of attack. I mean, they're not even wrong in that her attack is politically motivated (she's a politician for crying out loud), they're just right for the wrong reasons. Not a huge deal, just another reminder that Elon is human and absolutely capable of spouting off (at this moment in the form of amplification of an outright misleading statement) before he has a full grasp of the facts.

Elon Musk on Twitter

Again - disappointing.

I guess I don't know how to expand a twitter conversation. All I could see of Musk's response to Third Row's posting of her voting record was the word "Interesting". That disappointed you? I must have missed something if that's all it takes for a Tesla supporter to become disappointed with Musk. Were you around 10 days ago?

 

[feigen66]

I draw the line at a brand being aligned with and abhorrent tool like Mnuchin. Elon was right to flip out a bit, and I think the brand positioning with the far right took an amazingly positive turn, but this bickering needs to be squashed now that there's a lawsuit involved. Say the right things, be the cooler head, take the victory.

"There is no permanent allies, only permanent interests."
Henry Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston - Wikiquote

 

[ggr]

Yeah, which was revealed less than 48 hours ago after 2+ weeks of controversy and nonsense from Elon. Kara is right. Could have avoided so much scorched earth if they had just released this plan during the ER and said "we look forward to safely reopening on May 4th when the county order expires" to throw the ball in their court.

Non sequitur. The plan is essentially the same as the Shanghai plan which has been public for months. And it was certainly in the hands of the county health officer. Why would they want to talk about it in an earnings report, other than to say (as they did) "We have a plan to safely re-open."

 

[ggr]

Question for the legal experts: Does “injuctive relief” take effect when its filed, or does a judge have to review it first?

Of course the judge has to review it and issue an injunction. Otherwise the moderators would just request an injunction against all stupid questions in TMC investment forum. :-/

 

[jbcarioca]

Agreed. There is also a huge difference between being (or questioning) epidemiologist, and the practical question of how to safely open a factory. Does anyone deny that Tesla knows how to do the latter? Who cares about the former?

Actually anybody who wants to do that latter needs to know how to do the former.
Two keys, others than the physical stuff are case identification, i.e. testing and case management (i.e. epidemiology. Testing is useless without case epidemiology to follow the tests.

 

[feigen66]

Yea her subsequent tweet made it very obvious she was motivated by the Union, claiming the factory is "unsafe".
Elon pretty much knows any dealing with the Union = good bye to all innovation.

Unions had a purpose in the early and mid 20th century. We don't need them anymore. Especially in a state like California which has pretty good workers rights policies.

US union is weirdly structured. It is not incentivized the long-term health of the corporate, or jobs themselves -- also need to pay obscene membership fee while not really work for your interest. You also get punished if you go against the unions. It's a monopoly corporate in disguise.

Paying employee stock option is a better incentive because you are invested in this company.
If the company dies, you go under too.

 

[ggr]

Tesla is asking the court to issue an injunction. A permanent injunction would be issued after trial, possibly years. A preliminary injunction would be issued after an evidentiary hearing where Tesla would have a significant burden of proof and likely have to file a bond. A TRO Temporary Restraining Order could be sought which does not require a hearing. The courts rarely grant TROs for economic issues because they are not irreparable. In fact public health almost always trumps economic issues because the Court recognize that health is likely irreparable and thre Courts dont want to be seen as responsible for death or injury. However the Equal Protection argument may strive the interest of the Court enough that a quick hearing is a distinct possibility.

"... does not require a hearing ..." is correct, in the sense that a judge may issue the order without hearing or notification. It still requires review by a judge.

 

[Davidzhao365]

Lot is full of model 3 now. David Zhao on Twitter