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So Fred basically said a bunch of positive stuff about what's going on at Tesla, backing up his claims made in last night's article, including (quote) "there is no demand issue whatsoever" and "the other guys aren't even selling a tenth of what Tesla is selling" but they cut his call off quickly after that and conveyed their usual poo-poo analysis.

According to CNBC, when you get good news after bad news, that is known as "inconsistency" ...which is the same as bad news.
 
To think that no other company is doing anything around EV is myoptic.

To repeat what someone else said, no one here thinks that. But the fact (not opinion) is no other company is producing EVs in the quality and quantity to threaten Tesla's dominance of the market.

Mercedes' new EV, like Audi's and Jaguar's, is a nice quite expensive city car. It has pretty blue lines on the rims, and interior lighting with a choice of 64 colors. However, it has...

inferior range
inferior acceleration
inferior efficiency
inferior safety (probably)
no wireless software updates providing new features long after you buy it
no Autopilot getting better with every update
no supercomputer promising full autonomy with a future update
no huge fleet of cars teaching your car to drive better
no Supercharger network
no frunk (for God's sake)
no mass market rollout
no halo from being the leading innovator in the industry
no halo from a rocket-scientist CEO bringing satellite Internet to the whole world and putting rocket cold-thrusters in sports cars

Other companies, God bless them, are "doing something around EV." Their efforts are inferior to Tesla's, and seem highly likely to stay that way, given Tesla's technology lead and relentless innovation.

Other companies are expanding the market for EVs, not threatening Tesla.
 
I have been conversing with the author and Mr. Appleton....here is my latest response in case you are curious.


On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 3:00:11 PM EDT, <> wrote:

Dear Mr. Appleton,

1. Thank you for your response. Appreciated.

2. Not sure where you come up with "bait and switch" and "no one on the face of the earth has ever purchased an entry level Tesla for 35k." Here is a video showing otherwise.
Granted, the prices have risen slightly I think by $400. Can still contact Tesla to request the base model. Just not available on website.

3. Are you claiming dealers don't try to upsell? I have yet to be in one that hasn't. People forget that almost EVERY Tesla owner was a former gas car owner. We KNOW both sides.

4. The deposit was easily refundable. I requested a refund via ACH, came through 3 business days later. (I purchased a Model S instead.). There was no statement I recall from Tesla for which reservations were for only the 35k version. I was planning on the AWD version but I preferred the Model S. Tesla has historically sold their higher trim versions first. Nothing new here.

5. Do you honestly think Tesla can't exist with other car manufactuers? After all, many gas car companies can coexist. As more people move toward EVs away from ICE, this will only improve for Tesla. 20% of Americans Say Their Next Car Will Be Electric, Survey Says

6. Other car manufacturers take deposits. If that many people wanted to "give tesla their money for an interest free loan", more power to them!

7. Tesla is doing EXTREMELY well regardless of the "no demand" thumpers. You may want to watch the animation in this article: Animation: U.S. Electric Vehicle Sales (2010-19)

8. Hybrids are the WORST of both worlds. Twice the maintenance and more complicated drive train for less overall performance.

9. Oh, you mean all the Tesla killers? Have yet to see one competitor that matches on the charging network, over the air updates, autopilot AND performance. Seeing as how Model 3 in 2018 didn't really ramp up until the last half of the year, 2019 will be a much better metric.

Failure Of "Tesla Killers" Actually Boost Tesla

10. Even with other companies like VW building out charging networks, Tesla will most likely be able to use their network AND their own. So once again, best to get a Tesla.

11. I'm actually EXTREMLEY glad to hear other companies are getting into EVs. This does ONE thing. It helps LEGITIMIZE ALL EVs.

12. Other car companies and dealers are going to have a difficult time transitioning to EVs if they currently support ICE. Reason: A large chunk of dealerships bread and butter is from maintenance. Where Does the Car Dealer Make Money? | Edmunds

"So where does the majority of a dealership's profit come from? It's not from car sales, at least not directly. It's from the service and parts department, which accounts for 44 percent of the dealership's gross profits, according to NADA."

Do you know how many times I have taken in my Tesla for any types of maintenance other than tire rotation in over 35k miles? ZERO! My previous gas vehicle would have been brought in for 6 oil changes already. That's going to be a hard sell for dealerships to want to promote EVs. And when I do need service, most likely can be done at my house.

13. Current financial meltdown? Are you serious? Tesla can raise money ANY time they want. It has been proven time and time and time again. I think over TWELVE times in fact and most recently, just a few months ago. I think you (and every other bear) will be eating those words.

14. Yes, sales decreased for Q1 For Tesla. Especially S/X. A few things about that:
a. Q1 is normally a slower quarter.
b. They had some delivery hiccups in new markets for their Model 3. For example, China paused deliveries due to some labels being in English rather than Spanish.
c. They discontinued their MOST POPULAR versions of the S and X (75D) which later turned out to be because they were making improvements to their line.
d. Q2 is on track to be close to the best if not the best quarter ever.
e. People in the market for a new S/X usually want the latest and greatest. So waiting a few months until a refresh is possibly coming, is worth it. And guess what, they now can get a S with 370 miles of range.

15. You see... this attitude you are displaying is EXACTLY why so many people are getting turned off with dealerships. Rather than just acknowledging that Tesla has actually lit a fire under the butts of the competition, you just say things like "bait and switch" and "financial meltdown". Do you forget that GM and Chrysler have already filed bankruptcy only about a decade ago? Sadly, the only area where dealerships are actually being successful (albeit in a negative way) is blocking direct sales and service centers in certain states like Michigan. Dispicable practice. So much for "free market". Yet another reason for people to dislike dealerships. That has certainly been the LAST straw from me on ever supporting the dealership model again. I hope Tesla wins at the federal level to knock this BS out. Dealerships should compete based on service and other positives...not negatives to hide behind ridiculous and antiquated laws.

People complain about Tesla fanboys. I get it. But you know what? The dealerships and the unwarranted extreme negative spin has caused this. Not the other way around. You all are extremely threatened. Rightly so. Just wish the reaction from dealers and other manufacturers would be "we will work harder to prove our worth" instead of "bash, dodge, perry, bash, bash".

16. Yes, Tesla has it's growing pains. But still overall, people continue to rank them best. I'm sure the number will drop, the bigger they are, but still impressive. Tesla Has The Highest Customer Loyalty Of All Car Brands | CleanTechnica

17. You mention 67 different vehicles, from 27 different companies, etc. Most likely they will take many more ICE sales away from themselves moreso than a Tesla sale. Again, with more manufacturers entering the market, that only legitmizes EVs and reduces the stigma of having an EV. Remember, Tesla hasn't even done traditional advertising yet.

18. All the haters and shorts had Tesla pegged as dead back in 2010, then 2011, 2012, etc. They'll do just fine.

19. INDEED....TIME WILL TELL!!!!!!!

I would end on 20 but that's just too obvious. :)



On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 12:28:59 PM EDT, Appleton, James <[email protected]> wrote:


Thanks for sharing your comments in response to the recent freepress article on the generous government subsidies enjoyed by Tesla owners.



I was quoted in that story as saying that the Bolt is a $37,000 car and Teslas are selling for $57k. I understand you felt that statement was misleading and that it was not a fair apples to apples comparison btwn Bolt entry level and Tesla entry level. I see you point, in the abstract, but in the real world you can actually buy an entry level Bolt for $37K; nobody on the face of the Earth has ever purchased an entry level Tesla for $35K, because they haven’t built one, yet. Customers didn’t “upgrade”, they were “upsold” in an elaborate “bait and switch” scheme hatched by Tesla when they announced the “$35K Model 3” 2 years ago. Tesla “baited” 500,000 consumers across the US w/ an offer of a non-existent $35K vehicle; took a $1000 deposit ($500M interest free loan); made customers wait two years, and then “switched” them in to a higher priced “upgraded” model. If my dealers tried that, they would have the NJ Attorney General and/or plaintiffs lawyers crawling all over them.



I’m not sure how you’ve concluded “Tesla is kicking their butts”, referring to traditional carmakers and auto retailers. In 2018, New Jersey new car dealer sold more than 10,500 “clean” vehicles, representing 62 different models of battery electric, plug-in hybrid and hybrid vehicles from 27 different manufacturers. That’s twice as many as the three models Tesla sold last year. By 2021, there will be more than 100 battery electric vehicles and countless more alternative technology vehicles available for consumers to choose from……just 3 or 4 of them will be Teslas. That’s assuming the company survives the current financial melt-down and the stiff competition it faces from other automakers who are (at long last) “all in” on EVs. Time will tell.





James Brian Appleton, President

New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers

856 River Road

Trenton, New Jersey 08628

609-883-5056 ext. 330

609-883-1093 fax



cid:[email protected]:[email protected]







From: <>
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 1:55 PM
To: Lareau, Jamie <[email protected]>; Appleton, James <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: EV article


Copied



On Jun 5, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Lareau, Jamie <[email protected]> wrote:




His contact information is public if you want to Google it and contact him yourself.

Best,

Jamie





From: <>
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 1:39 PM
To: Lareau, Jamie <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: EV article


But why did he compare average selling price of the Tesla to starting price of the Bolt? Why would anyone do that other than to mislead? Not apples to apples.



Hopefully MANY people see through his “opinion”. I have been a Ford and GM owner my entire life. But these antics that the dealers and big three have been pulling off against Tesla are REALLY unfortunate. It has turned me off from EVER buying another GM, Ford or Chrysler product again.



I can understand their concern as Tesla is absolutely kicking their butt and will become even more apparent over the next several years. But this is not the way to handle it and is only accelerating the big 3 and dealerships downfall.



Please send him MY opinion. Thanks



On Jun 5, 2019, at 1:18 PM, Lareau, Jamie <[email protected]> wrote:




Thank you, , for your feedback and for reading.

TrueCar has the market average price of the 2019 Bolt at $30,900 – after a $6,595 discount.

The Model 3 was $51,900.

His comments were his opinion, but thank you for weighing in and you’re always welcome to write a letter to the editor.

Best,

Jamie




From: <>
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 12:48 PM
To: Lareau, Jamie <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: EV article




BTW, this is hilarious:



“The Chevrolet Bolt is "the real Model 3," for a lot less money, Appleton said. "The average price of Model 3 last year was $57,000, you can buy a Bolt for $37,000, and the Bolt is every bit desirable a vehicle as the Tesla."



Talk about a spin on the situation. Yes the average price was 57k because people UPGRADED! The Tesla Model 3 STARTS at just over 35k. which is LESS than the Bolt.



I hope Appleton realizes this....for his sake.



On Jun 5, 2019, at 12:17 PM, <> wrote:



Hello,

In response to your article here: GM, FCA strike a deal with Tesla that consumers subsidize


Why do you not point out that us Michigan Tesla owners pay about $200 more per year in annual registration fees to cover state road taxes?


Do you think people should be made aware of all the breaks that the oil and gas industries have received over the years?


SendSaveCancel

Good work!
 
Ferrari isn't going anywhere. Many known car brands will go belly up before Ferrari does. Tesla can potentially kill off BMWs and Audis but Ferrari will have a niche following even if cars run on dead dinosaurs decades from now. We have a current V12 Ferrari and it's an incredible machine inside out.
I can see a scenario in which Ferrari can't survive on their low volume high price ICE business, but it is less about Ferrari being a high end niche player with no BEV plans and more with them being overly dependent on shared technology (i.e., engine development, suppliers, etc) with other members of VW group. If they get spun off due to VW collapsing (unlikely - though some consolidation in brands is possible), they may struggle on their own if they no longer have access to the VW parts bin and engineering resources. They were of course fine on their own originally, but by now they're likely dependent on those things.

I don't think this is likely, of course, and I expect eventually they will have a BEV model, or at least transition to more and more PHEVs for new models (if nothing else, recapture of energy at the entrance of a corner to use on the exit is a great selling point), but they will be very slow about it, they can't jump into BEVs with both feet without alienating their client base, they must wait for their client base to demand it, which is a tricky balancing act (can't be too late, can't be too early).
 
I remember before the Model 3 came out, there was a narrative that a HUD was pretty much inevitable. Still waiting...

A year before Model 3 debut Tesla hired 3 HUD specialist.

One was poached from Porsche, the lead interior designer.

People said they did not hire those guys to lock them away in a dungeon.

Made sense. In the Ride the Lightning podcast Elon said he looked at various HUD systems and they all suck.

Go figure.
 
So Fred basically said a bunch of positive stuff about what's going on at Tesla, backing up his claims made in last night's article, including (quote) "there is no demand issue whatsoever" and "the other guys aren't even selling a tenth of what Tesla is selling" but they cut his call off quickly after that and conveyed their usual poo-poo analysis.

According to CNBC, when you get good news after bad news, that is known as "inconsistency" ...which is the same as bad news.
Yes, and the Q twits went off the deep end when they heard Fred "pumping" Tesla. Funny stuff if you can stand the level of gutter intellect they seem to attract.
 
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So the demented tslaq twits didn't take to kindly of our shining light on their barrage of FUD campaign:

"TMC $TSLA Investor Forum has decided to weaponize @TwitterSafety policy the moment it was announced. My advice to $tslaQ is to stop engaging and subscribe to @Paul91701736 block list. No amount of data, facts, reason, or logic will change a fanatic in a cult."

They even posted screenshots of your post! Funny stuff.

So the TSLAQ use of a shared Twitter block-list and censorship list to suppress fact-checking users from debunking false TSLAQ smear and disinformation attacks against Tesla is blatantly against Twitter's new policy:

"You may not use Twitter’s services in a manner intended to artificially amplify or suppress information or engage in behavior that manipulates or disrupts people’s experience on Twitter."​

I don't think that @Lycanthrope ever violated Twitter's terms of service by countering TSLAQ FUD - yet he's on their censorship list which is used by thousands of TSLAQ Twitter users, including journalists and other people whose disinformation tweets need fast reaction.

I.e. the TSLAQ 'shared blocklist' in itself is artificially amplifying the disinformation they are spreading.
 
I missed this video when it came out Tuesday. It's a nice summary of the benefits purchasing Maxwell.

I really think Wall Street has seriously underestimated the value of it.

Undecided with Matt Ferrell

That's a link to a generic channel intro video, this is the link to his Maxell take. Nothing new for most of use here, but succinctly put and nice to share with others

 
So the demented tslaq twits didn't take to kindly of our shining light on their barrage of FUD campaign:

"TMC $TSLA Investor Forum has decided to weaponize @TwitterSafety policy the moment it was announced. My advice to $tslaQ is to stop engaging and subscribe to @Paul91701736 block list. No amount of data, facts, reason, or logic will change a fanatic in a cult."

They even posted screenshots of your post! Funny stuff.

Where did you get this from, is it a tweet? Can you provide a link?
 
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Terrific response, but it has nothing to do with what I posted. My post was "There seems to be a perception that no other car manufacturer in the world is actually close to producing EVs", so I provided a link showing there was another major manufacturer getting ready to roll out EVs. Since I see that you are in Sweden, you may want to see where Volvo is in going electric.

Electric Car Initiative | Volvo Car USA

I'm not debating if the product from any of these companies is better or worse than a Tesla -- I'll let you decide that. My point is that Elon woke a sleeping giant by single-handedly turning the auto industry on its head, and now many of the worlds major car companies will have product rolling out in the near future. To think that no other company is doing anything around EV is myoptic. Elon has changed the entire industry, and that change is going to occur very quickly.


OK, I thought your point was that a lot of people underestimate the threats to Tesla of coming competition. My view is that a lot of people overestimate legacy car makers' ability to compete with Tesla.
 
So the demented tslaq twits didn't take to kindly of our shining light on their barrage of FUD campaign:

"TMC $TSLA Investor Forum has decided to weaponize @TwitterSafety policy the moment it was announced. My advice to $tslaQ is to stop engaging and subscribe to @Paul91701736 block list. No amount of data, facts, reason, or logic will change a fanatic in a cult."

They even posted screenshots of your post! Funny stuff.
I'm pretty sure most of them don't even have a financial interest in seeing Tesla drop. Most are just nutjobs. Same types of people who screech about ethics in video game journalism or make up theories about what happens in the basement of pizza shops. The crowd is just too stupid and too crazy to be people that have actual money to invest.
 
Where did you get this from, is it a tweet? Can you provide a link?
Twitter itself. Quoted text was from one of their own, "BloodsportCap". Simply open twitter without logging in and search tslaq. If you can stand their vile crap. I can only take it for a few minutes, but happened to hit it at the right time. Could just go to his twitter home page. Get an air sickness bag first...
 
I can see a scenario in which Ferrari can't survive on their low volume high price ICE business, but it is less about Ferrari being a high end niche player with no BEV plans and more with them being overly dependent on shared technology (i.e., engine development, suppliers, etc) with other members of VW group. If they get spun off due to VW collapsing (unlikely - though some consolidation in brands is possible), they may struggle on their own if they no longer have access to the VW parts bin and engineering resources. They were of course fine on their own originally, but by now they're likely dependent on those things.

I don't think this is likely, of course, and I expect eventually they will have a BEV model, or at least transition to more and more PHEVs for new models (if nothing else, recapture of energy at the entrance of a corner to use on the exit is a great selling point), but they will be very slow about it, they can't jump into BEVs with both feet without alienating their client base, they must wait for their client base to demand it, which is a tricky balancing act (can't be too late, can't be too early).

Ferrari IS NOT PART OF VW GROUP.

Lamborghini is part of VW Group.

Ferrari was part of FCA but was spun off into its own independent company 3.5 years ago.

Ferrari still sells V8 engines to FCA for Maserati but that will end soon.
 
Twitter itself. Quoted text was from one of their own, "BloodsportCap". Simply open twitter without logging in and search tslaq. If you can stand their vile crap. I can only take it for a few minutes, but happened to hit it at the right time. Could just go to his twitter home page. Get an air sickness bag first...

Yeah, found it cheers. And indeed, will have to take a shower after, they really are vile.
 
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