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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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CONGRATS TO EVERYONE. Soon everybody who ever bought TSLA shares have gained value. That's nice.
Six months ago TSLA was a moderate part of my portfolio. Enough so when it started it's big October? run I was excited but didn't shake my portfolio. It was a bit of a come-to-Elon moment, so I bought significantly more even though it was higher. Then Tesla moved up even more to it's ATH and that moved things quite a bit, but cost basis was pretty high. So when Tesla started dropping I sold some AMZN, NFLX (Just in time!), and some AAPL, picking up more shares on the way down.

Then... it kept going down. So I sold more AAPL, and bought some TSLA LEAPS. Then it went down a little more... and I sold a few more AAPL and picked up a couple more 2024 LEAPS (just a bit out of the money).

So now my cost basis is silly high and I have about 50/50 shares and LEAPs. Cost basis isn't great, but as you suggest but every share I bought along the way is right-side up now. The LEAPs have done exceptionally well. Gotta figure out when to get off that boat.

Nice to see all that digging I did over the past 3 months has turned into a foundation and not a money pit.
 
13G is a SEC form.
You know how Elon views the SEC. Elon can split hairs with the best of them and it's pretty obvious he has top-notch legal advice on top of that. He obviously doesn't have time for an extensive public activist campaign, but that doesn't prevent him from exercising his First Amendment rights, particularly in terms of his time spent socializing with one or two trusted and important Twitter people. That disclosure doesn't prevent him from socializing with them or from speaking his mind and letting people know what he believes.

The SEC is a joke, the last thing Elon would do is tell them he planned to become an activist investor.
Actually.. Let's think about this for a couple of minutes.
Elon's stated that the corruption at the SEC is pretty deep. Frankly, having watched them do their thing over the past couple of decades, especially with respect to their hands-off approach on Bernie Madoff until his scam became unbelievable, I'm willing to believe that.
Further, what with swinging doors and regulatory capture.. And this Really Weird Thing where short sellers and their ilk can lie there butts off but CEO's aren't allowed to say boo.. Something doesn't smell right.
So, let's say, for argument's sake, that the SEC is corrupt to the point where their close friends on Wall Street, short sellers, hedge funds, people who run algobots that manipulate the stock price for profit and rob investors, never get touched and, pretty much, run the show. I'll allow that the SEC probably does go after penny-ante crime ($100,000 there, a million here, where individual traders rob the elderly blind and all that), if for no other reason than to make the general public think that the SEC is keeping the big robber barons out. So the money train keeps on running.
So, if you're a CEO, you're not supposed to say anything unless you're covered in lawyers who are attempting to make the CEO follow insane and arcane SEC rules.
Suppose one owns a hardware store. Some local reporter comes by and asks how it's working out on Main Street. The owner snags the suspenders, pulls them out, and says, "It's all looking pretty good! There's reports that a big builder in town may be setting up to use my place as a source for all their wood, and I'm stoked!"
Following day the big builder goes to a big box store, instead.
If ye hardware store vendor played by the SEC rules, he'd be sued by the SEC. Just How The Heck Does That Make Sense? Answer: It doesn't.
And what blame difference does it make if one is an activist investor or not? If one owns the shares, one owns the shares. Just who, exactly, is that rule protecting, anyway? (Yes, the SEC usually says, "Investors! We Protect Them!" But.. from what, exactly? It's not like it's a secret that somebody owns a lot of shares, is it?)
What I figure: Elon's in there as a, "non-activist" investor. When asked about it, he speaks his mind. In public, even. The SEC goes bananas and tries to punish him.
If There's One Thing That The Federal Judiciary Knows About 1st Amendment Rights, It's That Prior Restraint on Speech By A Government Agency Is Expressly Forbidden. Strict scrutiny, I think they call it.
I think Elon's getting set to dare the SEC. And haul them into court. And (this would be fun) do a Little Discovery on these types.
It's that last bit that probably has the SEC quaking in its boots. On the one hand, if Elon flouts a long-standing rule with prior restraint built in, the SEC may feel forced to Do Something About It, i.e., haul Elon into court. On the other hand, if what they're doing is pretty much unconstitutional and therefore illegal, they may get exposed to Discovery.. and then things would get ugly for the SEC.
Think of Elon investing in Twitter as a chess move:
  1. On the one hand, clean up Twitter some and get the bots, misinformation peddlers, and crooks out of there. Even if it does slow down revenue in the short term. In the long term, better for everybody.
  2. On the other hand, putting the SEC into a position where they have to do something, but doing something means shooting themselves in their own collective feet.
People like to claim that Elon is impulsive. That may be true. But he's not an idiot, either. I suspect that he's got lawyers laying traps for the SEC, and has had, for probably at least a year now.
Popcorn, anybody?
 
We all know that Elon is often over-optimistic on timelines. But I'm curious to track down the best examples of predictions he got right. For example, does anyone have chapter and verse of his earliest predictions for Tesla vehicle sales over the long term? Anything else that was surprisingly on the money?

Without a doubt, Elon's best prediction was made in 2014 that Tesla would produce 500k cars in 2020.

This from the legendary Toilet Buoy hisself, Bark N Smeagol. :p


Why so gollum? Elon knows math (and makes it happen). Smeagol knows nothing (and blames everything).

Cheers!
 
I know I'm singing to the choir here. But worth pointing out.

"The Next Tesla" will not be yet another EV maker who mimics what Tesla did to get here. It is just not possible.

Tesla is where it is because they made an oblique attack at the auto industry. Tesla has never attacked where legacy auto was strong. New entrants cannot do that against an entrenched competitor. They will just end up so much chum in the shark pool.

Tesla attacked an obscure niche which the big players thought was inviable. They built a product which was better than a traditional car in every way save range and cost. Then they slowly pushed that niche bigger and bigger by increasing range and reducing cost.


The "Next Tesla" will be a company that comes in at an oblique approach to Tesla.


I'd be willing to bet the farm that SpaceX will be the "next Tesla". Just imagine what the stock price action would be like if SpaceX IPO'd next week. I'm salivating, lol.
 
13G is a SEC form.
You know how Elon views the SEC. Elon can split hairs with the best of them and it's pretty obvious he has top-notch legal advice on top of that. He obviously doesn't have time for an extensive public activist campaign, but that doesn't prevent him from exercising his First Amendment rights, particularly in terms of his time spent socializing with one or two trusted and important Twitter people. That disclosure doesn't prevent him from socializing with them or from speaking his mind and letting people know what he believes.

The SEC is a joke, the last thing Elon would do is tell them he planned to become an activist investor.
Eh, well, why not just fill out the right form... or no form at all, then? I don't care for unforced errors as it's distraction from a tremendous company that's executing brilliantly.

I get that he doesn't like them, but I would view this as unnecessary distraction if he just goes looking for a fight.
The SEC has a role... have they over-stepped some times? Yes.
Do they have bigger issues to focus on than Musk & co? Absolutely.
Should they be abolished? I don't think so.

Btw, congrats to the longs!
 
I'd be willing to bet the farm that SpaceX will be the "next Tesla". Just imagine what the stock price action would be like if SpaceX IPO'd next week. I'm salivating, lol.
SpaceX already IS the next Tesla. Just in a different industry. Think about the level of disruption SpaceX has already done. SpaceX has already outdone everyone in terms of launch costs with the Falcon 9. Starship (if successful) is going to make the Falcon 9 look expensive. Chances Starship will be successful eventually are pretty good.

I know there are private investors who have a stake in SpaceX. I would love to know how I can get a few shares of that.

I'm not sure it will ever IPO though. I think Elon would prefer to stay out of highly regulated markets as much as possible.
 
Quote below edited to add white space:

Actually.. Let's think about this for a couple of minutes.

Elon's stated that the corruption at the SEC is pretty deep. Frankly, having watched them do their thing over the past couple of decades, especially with respect to their hands-off approach on Bernie Madoff until his scam became unbelievable, I'm willing to believe that.

Further, what with swinging doors and regulatory capture.. And this Really Weird Thing where short sellers and their ilk can lie there butts off but CEO's aren't allowed to say boo.. Something doesn't smell right.

So, let's say, for argument's sake, that the SEC is corrupt to the point where their close friends on Wall Street, short sellers, hedge funds, people who run algobots that manipulate the stock price for profit and rob investors, never get touched and, pretty much, run the show.

I'll allow that the SEC probably does go after penny-ante crime ($100,000 there, a million here, where individual traders rob the elderly blind and all that), if for no other reason than to make the general public think that the SEC is keeping the big robber barons out. So the money train keeps on running.

So, if you're a CEO, you're not supposed to say anything unless you're covered in lawyers who are attempting to make the CEO follow insane and arcane SEC rules.

Suppose one owns a hardware store. Some local reporter comes by and asks how it's working out on Main Street. The owner snags the suspenders, pulls them out, and says, "It's all looking pretty good! There's reports that a big builder in town may be setting up to use my place as a source for all their wood, and I'm stoked!"

Following day the big builder goes to a big box store, instead. If ye hardware store vendor played by the SEC rules, he'd be sued by the SEC. Just How The Heck Does That Make Sense? Answer: It doesn't.

And what blame difference does it make if one is an activist investor or not? If one owns the shares, one owns the shares. Just who, exactly, is that rule protecting, anyway? (Yes, the SEC usually says, "Investors! We Protect Them!" But.. from what, exactly? It's not like it's a secret that somebody owns a lot of shares, is it?)

What I figure: Elon's in there as a, "non-activist" investor. When asked about it, he speaks his mind. In public, even. The SEC goes bananas and tries to punish him.

If There's One Thing That The Federal Judiciary Knows About 1st Amendment Rights, It's That Prior Restraint on Speech By A Government Agency Is Expressly Forbidden. Strict scrutiny, I think they call it.

I think Elon's getting set to dare the SEC. And haul them into court. And (this would be fun) do a Little Discovery on these types.

It's that last bit that probably has the SEC quaking in its boots. On the one hand, if Elon flouts a long-standing rule with prior restraint built in, the SEC may feel forced to Do Something About It, i.e., haul Elon into court. On the other hand, if what they're doing is pretty much unconstitutional and therefore illegal, they may get exposed to Discovery.. and then things would get ugly for the SEC.

Think of Elon investing in Twitter as a chess move:
  1. On the one hand, clean up Twitter some and get the bots, misinformation peddlers, and crooks out of there. Even if it does slow down revenue in the short term. In the long term, better for everybody.
  2. On the other hand, putting the SEC into a position where they have to do something, but doing something means shooting themselves in their own collective feet.

People like to claim that Elon is impulsive. That may be true. But he's not an idiot, either. I suspect that he's got lawyers laying traps for the SEC, and has had, for probably at least a year now.

Popcorn, anybody?

Dude! Use some WHITE SPACE!

I had do the above edits to give my eyes any hope of reading this.

And your comment deserves to be read, the ideas are important.

TL;dr White Space: "It's not hard, and it's free."
 
I'm not sure it will ever [SpaceX] IPO though. I think Elon would prefer to stay out of highly regulated markets as much as possible.

Years ago, Elon said SpaceX would not IPO before it was conducting regular flights to Mars. Right now, even a missed F-9 booster landing affects OUR shares. Imagine the sugar show from shortz if SpaceX was publicly traded...

But then, WHY IPO? Markets are supposed to provide capital for new ventures, trading current risk for future gains. Could Elon actually fund his Mars City just on income from operations*?

The Market has failed in the biggest opportunity in history. Elon had to capitalize SpaceX himself, then find other private capital. IMO, it does not deserve a taste of the sweets AFTER the risk has been reduced to business as usual.

*I hope they asteroid-mine 16-Psyche and find $16 Quadrillion worth of nickel, iron, and other rare earths. Then use it exclusively on Mars, and in deep space. Then disassemble Mercury (nobody's using it anyway).

Serves 'em right. :p
 
Canada Federal and Provincial (Ontario) governments are combined giving out >$1B to their BEV picks (GM, Stellantis, LG and Honda). My preference would be to put the $1B in the hands of the Canadian consumer by offering rebates to consumers for buying BEVs. Let the consumer pick the BEV winners via their purchase. Investing in BEVs is increasing exponentially. Thanks to Tesla for making BEVs an uncompromising alternative to ICE.


"The federal and Ontario governments are providing $259 million each to General Motors to expand and retool production at its two Ontario manufacturing plants.

GM will spend $2 billion in total to launch its first electric-vehicle (EV) production line at its CAMI plant in Ingersoll, as well as add additional light-duty Chevy Silverado pickup production at its facility in Oshawa.

The announcement is the latest in a series of investments worth hundreds of millions of dollars from the federal and Ontario governments towards the province's auto sector.

Last month, automaker Stellantis and South Korean battery giant LG Energy Solutions formed a joint venture to open a new electric vehicle battery production plant in Windsor, Ont. The federal and provincial governments will support the venture, but did not specify how much taxpayer money would be contributed to the $5 billion deal. However, Ford confirmed that Ontario and Canada "are putting hundreds of millions of dollars in."

Honda Canada also announced last month that it will spend $1.38 billion to upgrade its Alliston, Ont. plant to produce the 2023 CR-V hybrid crossover. The federal and provincial governments pitched in $131.6 million each towards the plant upgrade."
 
Canada Federal and Provincial (Ontario) governments are combined giving out >$1B to their BEV picks (GM, Stellantis, LG and Honda). My preference would be to put the $1B in the hands of the Canadian consumer by offering rebates to consumers for buying BEVs. Let the consumer pick the BEV winners via their purchase. Investing in BEVs is increasing exponentially. Thanks to Tesla for making BEVs an uncompromising alternative to ICE.


"The federal and Ontario governments are providing $259 million each to General Motors to expand and retool production at its two Ontario manufacturing plants.

GM will spend $2 billion in total to launch its first electric-vehicle (EV) production line at its CAMI plant in Ingersoll, as well as add additional light-duty Chevy Silverado pickup production at its facility in Oshawa.

The announcement is the latest in a series of investments worth hundreds of millions of dollars from the federal and Ontario governments towards the province's auto sector.

Last month, automaker Stellantis and South Korean battery giant LG Energy Solutions formed a joint venture to open a new electric vehicle battery production plant in Windsor, Ont. The federal and provincial governments will support the venture, but did not specify how much taxpayer money would be contributed to the $5 billion deal. However, Ford confirmed that Ontario and Canada "are putting hundreds of millions of dollars in."

Honda Canada also announced last month that it will spend $1.38 billion to upgrade its Alliston, Ont. plant to produce the 2023 CR-V hybrid crossover. The federal and provincial governments pitched in $131.6 million each towards the plant upgrade."
Im sure GM will spend that money wisely. GM is the leader after all......
 

"...being out of the market for only the five best days during the past 20 years would have led to a 23% lower return. Missing the best ten days would have reduced returns by a staggering 40%."​

"Volatility is not Risk"
-- Homer Simpson ;)
 
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People like to claim that Elon is impulsive. That may be true. But he's not an idiot, either.

He's not an idiot, but he's not immune to saying idiotic things. For example, suggesting hydroxyclorquine as a treatment for covid and predicting covid cases would go to zero in April 2020. There's no doubt he's a genius, but he is not infallible. I think it is ok to have healthy skepticism here and there.
 
Without a doubt, Elon's best prediction was made in 2014 that Tesla would produce 500k cars in 2020.

This from the legendary Toilet Buoy hisself, Bark N Smeagol. :p


Why so gollum? Elon knows math (and makes it happen). Smeagol knows nothing (and blames everything).

Cheers!
Speaking of Toilet Boy, his 2022 "Investor Letter" has been published on this site on April Fool's day. How fitting except for the fact that Spiegel is a fool all year long:


(apologies if already posted, but I didn't see it if it was)

He's still short TSLA but he doesn't disclose how small his position has become. Ironically, Spiegel makes no mention of how wrong he has been for the last decade plus of saying Tesla is overvalued. I think he believes no one has noticed since he probably doesn't have any clients besides his mom and dad and has Twitter-blocked anyone who knows what they are talking about when it comes to TSLA. The bubble is the one surrounding Mark Spiegel. He lives in a world where Tesla is evil. I find that funny.
 
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I get that he doesn't like them, but I would view this as unnecessary distraction if he just goes looking for a fight.
The SEC has a role... have they over-stepped some times? Yes.
Do they have bigger issues to focus on than Musk & co? Absolutely.
Should they be abolished? I don't think so.

Oh yes, we need the SEC, the problem is we don't need the SEC we have, we need a SEC that doesn't protect the criminal behavior of the market makers.

And my point is not that Elon doesn't like the SEC, it's that he doesn't respect them or the way they wield their authority.
 
Speaking of Toilet Boy, his 2022 "Investor Letter" has been published on this site on April Fool's day. How fitting except for the fact that Spiegel is a fool all year long:


(apologies if already posted, but I didn't see it if it was)

He's still short TSLA but he doesn't disclose how small his position has become. Ironically, Spiegel makes no mention of how wrong he has been for the last decade plus of saying Tesla is overvalued. I think he believes no one has noticed since he probably doesn't have any clients besides his mom and dad and has Twitter-blocked anyone who knows what they are talking about when it comes to TSLA. The bubble is the one surrounding Mark Spiegel. He lives in a world where Tesla is evil. I find that funny.
That letter was hilarious. Highly recommend reading the Tesla section.
 
That letter was hilarious. Highly recommend reading the Tesla section.

NOT going to read smaug, but I'm guessing he didn't mention that ZERO of the FED's bond purchases when to Tesla, since their credit is rated as "junk" by the idiots experts at S&P DJI, and Moody's. :p

Wait, don't tell me. I don't care to know what he thinks.

Cheers!