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Tesla replaced my MCI units because of poor production in the winter, but now it's much worse.

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With regard to @wwhitney 's request: one down-side of having the new Tesla inverter instead of the Delta inverter is that (to my knowledge) you can't get historical string production data from the inverter. The best you can do is reboot the inverter and connect to it within the first 15 minutes or so after startup to see real-time string production.

If you set up the Powerwall-Dashboard, you'll get historical string production as well (it will log the live data in a database). You can use "customer credentials" for API access and don't need the installer mode: Connecting to Tesla Gateway and Powerwall+ | Tesla Support.
 
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Presumably south is the bottom of the page? What is the roof slope?

What would be further required is splitting up each region into subregions showing the parallel strings of solar tiles. Or at a minimum, knowing how many DC circuits are coming the inverter(s) and how those are connected to the inverter inputs. Ideally you should know which region of solar tiles on the roof corresponds to which cable at the inverter.

Cheers, Wayne
Hi Wayne,

Yes, south is the bottom of the screen.

How can I figure this out without any schematics, blueprints, or drawings?

Thanks! Great input.
 
Thanks Wayne, found out how to get some data.
Shut down Inverters one at a time to get readings. I started with Inverter 2 at 1:20pm today full sun, and then Inverter 1 at 1:30pm with full sun:

I do not have diagrams of string locations, but I am pretty sure they mentioned that Inverter 2 had south facing tiles when they were out here replacing MCI's.
At least 1 or 2 strings.
The info shown doesn't seem like much on Inverter 2, just as I suspected the problem is something there.
 

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Thanks Wayne, found out how to get some data.
Shut down Inverters one at a time to get readings. I started with Inverter 2 at 1:20pm today full sun, and then Inverter 1 at 1:30pm with full sun:

I do not have diagrams of string locations, but I am pretty sure they mentioned that Inverter 2 had south facing tiles when they were out here replacing MCI's.
At least 1 or 2 strings.
The info shown doesn't seem like much on Inverter 2, just as I suspected the problem is something there.
Prior to power cycling the inverters was the tesla app reading close to what the inverters showed (i.e. 6.62 kW total)? I ask because sometimes it can take the inverters a while after a reboot to find the maximum power point.

Without the plans it is really hard to say what is going on without a lot of guesses. You should have approximately 56 tiles on the North side, 31 tiles on the East, and 173 tiles on the South for a total of 258 tiles. Each tile's maximum operating point is 11V and 5.3A but due to temperature on the roof I would guess the actual voltage is a little less than 10.5V. We can use this value to determine the approximate number of tiles in each string. Any shading from roof vents, chimney, etc would affect these numbers. I couldn't make the numbers work unless I assume each inverter input contains two parallel strings. Given this I would guess the following:

Inverter 1
String 1: 2x24 tiles (North or South - about the right current for a North facing string this time of year)
String 2: 2x22 tiles (Likely South - producing full power)
String 3: 2x26 tiles (North or South - could be South with one of the parallel strings not operating)

Inverter 2
String 1: 2x15 tiles (East String - lowest number of tiles - not really putting out anything)
String 2: 2x20 tiles (North or South - seems like one of the parallel strings may not be operating)
String 3: 2x23 tiles (North or South - not really putting out anything)

I think this adds up to 260 total tiles, so the method is not exact but close. One assumption I am making here is that the parallel strings are on the same roof plane. If this is not the case it makes it even harder to make anything from the data.

The easiest string to identify is your East string since it is the shortest. These two strings in parallel are only putting out 0.5A which is nothing so either the inverter hasn't quite found the MPP after reboot or there is likely an issue here. The same with inverter 2 String 3.

Unfortunately it is harder to tell with the rest of the strings since they all have similar voltages and we are getting to the point in the year when there is not as much differentiation between North and South.

Inverter 1 String 3 and Inverter 2 String 2 seem to be putting out half the current they should be if they are really two strings in parallel.

Lots of guesses and assumptions here so I could be way off.
 
Thanks to @yblaser for doing the short of analysis I figured should be possible to start with.

Here is what I would do next if I had to investigate and diagnose this myself (because production was below expected and Tesla wouldn't give satisfaction). This would involve electrical work, which you should not do unless you are confident you are qualified. If you're not sure, you're not qualified. : - )

- Get IR pictures of all of the roof planes. Properly producing tiles should be converting 20% of the incoming solar power into electricity, and thus less of the solar power into heat, and so should be cooler. With normal solar panels, this is definitely detectable; not 100% sure it would still work with the solar roof, but I think so.

- Open up the DC wiring compartment of each inverter, and using what I see and what the manuals show, figure out how many wire pairs total are coming from the roof to the inverters and to each input. When two strings are in parallel, that paralleling can be done on the roof, meaning one only pair shows up at the inverter, or the paralleling can be done at/near the inverter, in which case you can find both pairs.

- If the IR pictures of the roof allow the detection of operating tiles, then sequentially disconnect one input to the inverter (only if qualified!), restart the inverter, wait for the new thermal equilibrium to be established, and then take a new IR scan of the roof to determine which active tiles are no longer operating.

Hopefully the above would be enough to start to make a diagnosis and figure out what to check next.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Well... I received a response again from the rep which stated that a manger basically quoted this:

"... a string couldn’t be out neither do I see a string intermittently failing at this time. Crew did everything correctly and this is simply the design of the roof impacting performance and ultimately customer expectations."

I did not get any of my questions answered:

How is it that the peak performance in the day can go from 13kW+ to 8kW?

Total sunny day production max in early June go from 84kWh in 2021 to 64kWh in 2023?

Why is Inverter 2 now only 20% of my production instead of 30%+ as it was before replacements?


Instead I've been dismissed for having expectations that my system would run as well as it did when it was first installed at the very least.
Only improvement has been stability, but then again it's only been 2 months, I do not have high expectations here at all.

@wwhitney , I will look into doing some tests. Any IR camera you recommend that worked well for you?
 
With all the info I provided here about my situation, can anyone make sense of my final reply?
It just seems they are giving me current reading instead of investigating the issues as a whole.


These are the direct notes from our Systems Diagnostic manager.

"I reviewed this and held it for a week and what I found is there is simply intermittent weather patterns. This job is in Illinois (limited nearby sites for modeling). The system is intermittently meeting estimates due to weather.

I proved with [a Tesla proprietary program] data that a string couldn’t be out neither do I see a string intermittently failing at this time. Crew did everything correctly and this is simply the design of the roof impacting performance and ultimately customer expectations.

We should have 6 readings across both inverters. We are getting 3 IND readings from both inverters. Check. 3 Current readings should be greater than Imp=5.32 b/c they are combined at the roof. For example, 31 and 31 are combined and their current reading will be above 5.32 as a result (does not need to be jumped).

1538000-00-F--GF2230590004RP [inverter 1] has 2 readings (MPPT1 and MPPT2) above 5.32 and 1 below indicating that this inverter has 2 sets of strings that are combined. It would be impossible for a string length to have a peak current above the stated value.

1538000-00-F--GF2230590004CY [inverter 2] has 1 reading above 5.32 on MPPT1 with a peak level of 6.970. This indicates that we are seeing all necessary production across all MPPTs. This means this combined circuit is most likely the circuit facing North and East on MP1/MP3.

No further action is needed...as I suspect the customer may not accept the results due to thinking the system needs to be peaking at DC output. (which will not happen). Customer expectations are not possible in any scenario."


The case has been closed accordingly.
 
@Thomias - sorry that it has been so difficult to get things sorted.

Assuming that you (or a friend) don't have the electrical expertise to safely debug as @wwhitney suggests above, I think you are stuck for a while. The best you can do is compare production results over longer periods (maybe 3, 6, 12 months). If production is significantly lower over the longer periods, then go back to Tesla and try to get them to acknowledge/fix the problem.
 
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@Thomias - sorry that it has been so difficult to get things sorted.

Assuming that you (or a friend) don't have the electrical expertise to safely debug as @wwhitney suggests above, I think you are stuck for a while. The best you can do is compare production results over longer periods (maybe 3, 6, 12 months). If production is significantly lower over the longer periods, then go back to Tesla and try to get them to acknowledge/fix the problem.
Yeah, not so sure I want to invest $500 in a camera that may not pickup the temperature difference in the solar shingles.
 
Yeah, not so sure I want to invest $500 in a camera that may not pickup the temperature difference in the solar shingles.
Those FLIR cameras are really good. Talk to the company, if you have doubts. To the extent that there may be valid temperature fluctuations in shingles day to day, it should affect all the shingles on your roof planes the same, unless of course you have shadows moving across the roof. I would not try to match 81.2F on day 37 to 84.5F on day 53 on a particular shingle, but from my experience shingle to shingle comparison measurements should hold up.

All the best,

BG
 
I was able to get a drawing from Tesla Support.
This really isn't making much sense now. Inverter 2 should be producing about the same or even more than Inverter 1 according to this layout.

The drawing indicates that the North and East strings are on Inverter 1, but the explanation or excuse I was given was just guessing that the North and East side are on Inverter 2.

Inverter 2 has 124 out of the 171 modules on the South facing side and should technically should be producing as much or more than Inverter 1 with 133 modules from East, North, and South.

I think this needs to be escalated, Clearly the drawing isn't accurate or it was not referenced at all.

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1687371528170.png


Excuse/Explanation:
"1538000-00-F--GF2230590004CY [inverter 2] has 1 reading above 5.32 on MPPT1 with a peak level of 6.970. This indicates that we are seeing all necessary production across all MPPTs. This means this combined circuit is most likely the circuit facing North and East on MP1/MP3."
 
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I just received a response from Tesla support right away.
Just going to leave it here without commenting further.

Would like to hear more from all of you on your thoughts. I do not need IR camera now that I know how the modules are wired.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.


Support Response:
"The system drawings you received are from the original install. With the work that has been done since then, the design may have changed, but I do not have access to that if there is one.

This case has been reviewed by our installation team, the engineering/operations team, and the systems diagnostic team and is closed."
 
i.e., We have no clue how it's currently wired so we're going to tell you it's working as expected and close the ticket.
Yes, I would think a reputable company would realize that the wiring diagram is not accurate after the first visit to replace MCI units and have someone draw up new As-Builts. This would not only help for future issues being a 25 year warranty, but also great for litigation purposes if something were to happen to the roof, system, or home itself.
Now the Ops team being out knew there was something strange with the wiring for the strings to Inverter 2, and "didn't understand how it was generating power before". Well, it's generating much less now.
So that's two visits pulling tiles, and no one took the time to make notes? Maybe have someone revisit this?
 
... No updates, so I reached out to Tesla support today.
What a shocker to find that they now have no open case for my system. (With all the sarcasm I can muster here).

So I asked to now opened a new case seeking resolution to ongoing performance issues.
I was told to email the resolutions team.

...To be continued........
 
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2 Emails and 3 weeks later. Completely ignored.
No response to acknowledge receipt of my email or reply of any kind.

My system production:
July 2021 vs July 2022 vs July 2023
2947kWh* vs 3090kWh vs 1486kWh (2021 - Inverter2 was down for almost 2 weeks)

Aug 2021 vs Aug 2022 vs Aug 2023
2838kWh vs 2671kWh vs 1293kWh

Sep 2021 vs Sep 2022 vs Sep 2023
2507kWh vs 1661kWh vs 900 kWh

Anyone at Tesla reading this, please help a customer out!... Hello?! ....
 
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2 Emails and 3 weeks later. Completely ignored.
No response to acknowledge receipt of my email or reply of any kind.

My system is also producing half of what it used to produce.

Anyone at Tesla reading this, please help a customer out!... Hello?! ....
Sorry about such troubles man. I am not sure what you can do but start elevating things to whoever will listen. It sucks to hear about these issues not getting taken care of in a timely manner, so hopefully patient persistence will get you somewhere.