Tesla Outsells Large Luxury Sedan Competitors in Q2 2013

[DJ Frustration]

When will we see the articles pointing out how the Model S once again outsold the competition in the Large Luxury Sedan segment? Editors, get those journalists cracking!

From Q1 "Tesla Model S Outsells BMW 7 Series, Audi A8, Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Lexus LS in US in Q1 of 2013"
Tesla Model S Outsells BMW 7 Series, Audi A8, Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Lexus LS in US in Q1 of 2013

 

[gaswalla]

I saw an article about Tesla having 8% of the luxury car market.

 

[dirkhh]

I saw an article about Tesla having 8% of the luxury car market.

Source / link, please?

 

[Citizen-T]

Source / link, please?

I saw it too, but I think it was using the estimated numbers for Tesla which were off by a lot. So in reality, it is probably much better than 8%.

 

[gregincal]

Source / link, please?

http://electrificationcoalition.org/sites/default/files/EC_State_of_PEV_Market_Final.pdf

Search for Model S. It's for the first half of 2013, but they don't provide any details, they just state "In fact, in the first six months of this year, the Model S has captured 8.4 percent of the luxury market, selling more than 10,000 units. ".

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

I saw it too, but I think it was using the estimated numbers for Tesla which were off by a lot. So in reality, it is probably much better than 8%.

No they used 12,850 as the total number built since production started. Actual number through June was ~12,700. If anything the 8.4% of the luxury market is a slight overstatement, though I of course am biased towards comparing them only to large luxury vehicles that cost more than around $70k (to exclude a couple of Cadillac boats that are more mass affluent cars).

 

[30seconds]

more recent data



Assuming that the July Model S deliveries are ~1800 units that is about the same as the COMBINED sales of the A8, BMW 7 series and Mercedes S Class.

Audi US July Sales
A8: 452 units
A7: 645 units
A6: 2061 units

BMW US June (not July, can't find them) Sales
7 Series: 855 units
5 Series: 4484 units

Mercedes US July Sales
S Class: 577 units
E Class: 5,605 units

 

[ZBB]

Keep in mind that Tesla's sales through 2Q13 are for both the US and Canada... What are the Canada sales?

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Also, most people seem to compare the Model S to the 5-series and S-class, but IMHO the car's dimensions and pricing correspond much more closely with the 5-series (especially the Gran Turismo) and the E-class. This point of view would indicate that the Tesla's market share is smaller (since it's a bigger market with more unit sales each quarter), but also indicates a greater total sales potential.

 

[gregincal]

Also, most people seem to compare the Model S to the 5-series and S-class, but IMHO the car's dimensions and pricing correspond much more closely with the 5-series (especially the Gran Turismo) and the E-class. This point of view would indicate that the Tesla's market share is smaller (since it's a bigger market with more unit sales each quarter), but also indicates a greater total sales potential.

I would tend to agree. The price is higher, but with the EV savings I think it's really more comparable to the 5-series and E-class. Certainly the S-class is all about a level of luxury that the Model S doesn't really compete with.

 

[Zzzz...]

Keep in mind that Tesla's sales through 2Q13 are for both the US and Canada... What are the Canada sales?

I believe I saw GCR or autobloggreen article claiming that number of Teslas registered in Canada in first 6 months of 2013 was 344...

 

[DJ Frustration]

Has anyone picked up on any articles about Tesla outselling the competition again?

 

[dirkhh]

Has anyone picked up on any articles about Tesla outselling the competition again?

But that's simply not true. A8, 7 series, and S class are not the competition. They are on average more expensive and much more about luxury. The real competition, both in price and mostly in expectations for luxury and technology are the A6, 5 series, and E class. And the Tesla is nowhere near outselling those.

I don't understand why so many here are so spellbound to make outrageous statements about the success and infailability of Tesla. Tesla is making good cars and has solid traction in the US market (but no where else).
It's not the best car ever, nor is it outselling the established ICE competition. Let's stick with reality and avoid being seen as a misguided cult that is blind to reality.

 

[deonb]

But that's simply not true. A8, 7 series, and S class are not the competition. They are on average more expensive and much more about luxury. The real competition, both in price and mostly in expectations for luxury and technology are the A6, 5 series, and E class. And the Tesla is nowhere near outselling those.

Have you seen the price of the Model S lately?

A fully loaded Model S is more expensive than a fully loaded BMW 750 ( $134k vs. $129k) and the 60 is at the exact same price as the base 750 ($67k).

The BMW 5 series and Mercedes E class start at $47'000. Show me a Model S for anywhere close to that price.

 

[ModelS8794]

But that's simply not true. A8, 7 series, and S class are not the competition. They are on average more expensive and much more about luxury. The real competition, both in price and mostly in expectations for luxury and technology are the A6, 5 series, and E class. And the Tesla is nowhere near outselling those.

Model S is a flagship fullsize flatback sedan starting at a base $70k MSRP. The competition are the flagship models (S, A8, 7-series) and (particularly wrt the design/styling/capacity) the fullsize flatback sedans (A7, CLS-Class, 6-series Gran coupe). The midsize sedans (E, 5-series, A6) are smaller and have a much lower upfront cost. Since base MSRP and overall size/design are the two most commonly considered factors when determining what competitive class a car resides, I'd say there is nothing outrageous or blind to reality in making this pretty obvious determination.


Base MSRP (from each company website) and sales stats (from goodcarbadcar)

Midsize Sedans MSRP YTD Sales thru June
5-series $49,500 27,001
A6 $42,200 10,439
E-Class $51,900 29,694

Flatback coupes
6-series gran $77,100 5373
A7 $60,100 4381
CLS $72,100 3652

Flagship Fullsize Sedan
7-series $73,600 5178
A8 $75,100 3248
S-class $92,300 6456


Model S $71,070 10,050

 

[dirkhh]

I guess our perceptions are different then. An S60 after tax credit is around $65k.
A somewhat comparably performing and equipped A6 / 5 series / E class costs the same.
In both groups the price goes way past $100k

 

[ModelS8794]

I guess our perceptions are different then. An S60 after tax credit is around $65k.
A somewhat comparably performing and equipped A6 / 5 series / E class costs the same.
In both groups the price goes way past $100k

An optioned out A6 may have a comparable cost to a base MS, but it doesn't seem very logical to compare the base price of one car to the optioned out price of another.

The ASP for Model S the last quarter was $93,500 excluding all regulatory credits. That, plus the design and size/capacity of the car, seems more in line with the other fullsize sedans, not the midsize sedan group.

IMO.

 

[gregincal]

Of course the reality is more complicated and subtle than that, which makes it hard to compare. All those other manufacturers have a full line of cars, and the people who buy the full size flagship model buy it because they really want it rather than the smaller car. Tesla only has a single model and there are many people like me who would have much preferred a smaller car, but had no choice but to buy the S if they wanted a Tesla. Because of that I see such comparisons as kind of fun, but not really telling us anything.

 

[dirkhh]

Of course the reality is more complicated and subtle than that, which makes it hard to compare. All those other manufacturers have a full line of cars, and the people who buy the full size flagship model buy it because they really want it rather than the smaller car. Tesla only has a single model and there are many people like me who would have much preferred a smaller car, but had no choice but to buy the S if they wanted a Tesla. Because of that I see such comparisons as kind of fun, but not really telling us anything.

I think you did a better job than me explaining why I'm uncomfortable with the way people make statements like the op. Either way it's not an apples to apples comparison and misleading.