Tesla Model 3 vs BMW 3 Series (Electrek)

[Waiting4M3]

It's going to be pretty interesting if the 2018/2019 Nissan leaf comes out with greater than than the base Model 3.

Actually they better beat the base M3 range. Nissan's 2 current upper trims MSRP for $34.2K-$36.8K. If they don't at least beat the base M3's range, what other selling point would they have? luxury? branding? new tech?

 

[MP3Mike]

If they don't at least beat the base M3's range, what other selling point would they have? luxury? branding? new tech?

Immediate availability, full federal tax credit for longer, etc.

 

[Waiting4M3]

Yeah, but I just don't see Tesla accelerating a move to sustainable transport with it's cars yet. They've started the conversation, but the movement conintues to limp along. Actually, perhaps Elon's goal really is to get manufacturers with the production wherewithal to go EV, which is happening sloooowly. Eh, at the end of the day, I'm ashamed to admit that I had high hopes for this car - probably exacerbated by me buying rumors that never came to fruition - that have been dashed by the actual details revealed last Friday.

Model 3 was supposed to be a game changer, but is really just another expensive toy. After 15+ months of me evangelizing Tesla and the Model 3, a few co-workers have already stopped by my office to take pleasure in throwing this in my face this morning.

This sounds like the same argument "What global warming? It snowed where I live just this past winter!"

or maybe Elon should have stuck to his original goal, which was......

200K in 2020?

 

[Waiting4M3]

Immediate availability, full federal tax credit for longer, etc.

"immediate availability" = TM3 continue selling out, so Leaf is not hurting the TM3 sales, by definition.

 

[206er]

This sounds like the same argument "What global warming? It snowed where I live just this past winter!"

or maybe Elon should have stuck to his original goal, which was......

200K in 2020?

Naw, I was just expecting the Model 3 to be capable of making more of an impact on the real mass market versus the smaller, more upscale market and am disappointed. I'll definitely admit that I have no one to blame other than myself for my disappointment.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Model 3 base version is great value. It has great performance and good standard options for the price.

Where it lacks is options amount, options granularity and options value. If you want a virtual cockpit or HUD, or ventilated seats, you're out of luck, better go Audi. If you want just all heated seats or something and not a $5,000 option, Germans will serve you better, same with basic driver's aids...

It again evens out on the loaded end a bit. It is the middle where Model 3 is hurting, it has few options and the few it has are bundled quite expensively. But it is great value as a base model and decent value as loaded.

 

[KarenRei]

How can you use options to base your opinion on without providing options for the car you are comparing it to?

Apparently I need to repeat myself:

If you think I left off mentioning some options worthy of mention for the Audi, then feel free to add them, but all of the specs for the Model 3 are for the base model, and everything that's an option is listed as an option.

What options do you think are worthy of mention that were left off? E.g. things like paint options are already on there. If you have some more you think are worthy of mention, by all means add them.

 

[JeffK]

I think you a word there.

Was it "range", "price", "stereo"?

if the 2018/2019 Nissan leaf comes out with greater "what" than the base Model 3?

haha nice catch... I meant range.

 

[kbM3]

In my opinion, the Model 3 is a great EV for the price. Lot of people here were conditioned to expect the best car for the price period. That happened to be an EV.

You need to be able to win over the people who don't give a rat's behind that the car is powered by electricity versus gasoline. Electrek's unscientific survey noted that the bulk of readers obtaining a Model 3 are from the compact German sedans. Non-EV enthusiasts who are in likely well-optioned compact luxury sedans will be taken aback by some of the design decisions Tesla has made. Let's just say that I'll be steering my technologically challenged family & friends far away from the Model 3.

OK, but prepare to lose a lot of them after they realize how great a car the model three is .

 

[svp6]

5,631 Bolt available on cars.com as new cars. Does not seem like supply constrained.

I have seen the Motor Trend video and I have to say the minimalist interior is growing on me. It may have also to do with my recent testing of the A4 and 6 / Jaguar XE/XF, Porsche Cayman/911, BMW 4/5 series. The interior materials seemed of lesser quality than I remembered in years past (although remaining very good). Also I cannot imagine going back to a non touch-screen command system - had a Merc rental just last week, all the buttons drove me nuts. I will await the opportunity to see the car in person, but judging from what I have seen, there is no competition between model 3 and entry / mid level German sedans.

 

[metier]

What options do you think are worthy of mention that were left off? E.g. things like paint options are already on there. If you have some more you think are worthy of mention, by all means add them.

I already did, with the comparison between a $50,000 Model 3 and $50,000 A4. Since that is what it would cost for the options you quoted for the Model 3

 

[kbM3]

Except for the Audi A4 base price $36000, which includes

3 zone automatic climate control

Comfort armrest

Sunroof with sunshade power tilt and slide features

Auto dimming interior rear view mirror with digital compass

Trunk storage package (cargo tie-downs, right-side net and grocery hooks

Leather seating surfaces

Eight-way power front seats and four-way power lumbar adjustment for driver

Heated front seats

10 speakers signal CD player with MP3 playback

Apple CarPlay and Android Auto

2 x SDXC card slots with 64GB operating capacity

Audi music interface with two USB ports for data and charging connections

Homelink

Rear view Parking camera

Keyless engine start/stop

Audi pre sense basic

Audi pre sense city

Rain/light sensor for automatic windshield wipers and headlights

Front and rear floor mats



Choice of white or black paint no charge

9 other paints for $575

4 different leather seat colors no charge

That Audi is only a front wheel drive car. All of the more expensive more luxurious German and Italian cars are either rear-wheel-drive or all-wheel-drive.

 

[kbM3]

It's going to be really interesting to see what Tesla looks like in 2019 - once the most die hard folks have gotten their orders AND full production is up at 500,000 cars per year. Will there be enough demand for a $40k-$60k car to meet these production goals? Currently the BMW 3 series is not even manufacturing 500,000 cars per year, and USA Sales make up 100,000 - 140,000 of that. (numbers at the bottom of the page)

So we're saying that the model 3 is going to replace and surpass the BMW 3 series sales? That's a tall order, especially without tax credits.

Despite the vocal camp here that thinks they hit it out of the park, there's another just as vocal camp outside these forums that doesn't agree. More to the point, I think many can agree that BMW is the reigning King for a reason, it's a solid car that's fun to drive. It's not like the rest of the ISE world (again outside of these forums) is clamoring for a replacement. You have to convince them to make the change somehow.

The model three will steal buyers from everywhere. Some will even trade down fromBMW five series or Audi A6's. Others will be trading up from Toyota Camry's and Honda Accord's.

 

[kbM3]

The latest rumors are around 40kWh and 150 miles EPA range for the 2018 Leaf. They might have another larger pack coming later.

If they produce enough and price it cheaply enough they will sell sell a ton of them.

 

[kbM3]

5,631 Bolt available on cars.com as new cars. Does not seem like supply constrained.

I have seen the Motor Trend video and I have to say the minimalist interior is growing on me. It may have also to do with my recent testing of the A4 and 6 / Jaguar XE/XF, Porsche Cayman/911, BMW 4/5 series. The interior materials seemed of lesser quality than I remembered in years past (although remaining very good). Also I cannot imagine going back to a non touch-screen command system - had a Merc rental just last week, all the buttons drove me nuts. I will await the opportunity to see the car in person, but judging from what I have seen, there is no competition between model 3 and entry / mid level German sedans.

I am exactly the same way. The first time I saw that interior and looked strange to me. Now when I see it back to back against a BMW or Audi, they are the ones that look strange. I think this sleek minimalistic look is going to grow popular very quickly. I think it is obviously the future of interior design.

 

[Waiting4M3]

Naw, I was just expecting the Model 3 to be capable of making more of an impact on the real mass market versus the smaller, more upscale market and am disappointed. I'll definitely admit that I have no one to blame other than myself for my disappointment.

If each M3 sold replaces an ICE, would you want it to replace a 35MPG Civic? or a 25MPG BMW 3-series? As long as there are 500K people waiting for the M3 at this pricing range, then it doesn't hurt. In 2-3 years, when the battery cost continues to come down, Tesla can make a cheaper car (likely the MY) to move further down market. As far as Tesla's mission to save the environment, I don't see how they could do it any faster, or at least that's what I thought before Elon pulled in the ramp schedule of the M3 by 2 years. How can you be disappointed by any of that?

 

[brkaus]

uuuh, ex-fanboy here. after taking yesterday to largely refrain from posting and think about it a lot, I'm still seeing the base Model 3 as not being competitive with a loaded Civic. Yeah the EV-ICE part is not comparable, but looking at the overall package, it just makes better short-term sense for someone not obsessed with EVs or performance driving to throw $25k+ at a loaded Civic or Accord than settle for a bare bones $35k Model 3, especially if the bulk of full tax credits are taken by high-end 3 buyers.

Model 3 should've been sold as a smaller, less equipped, $50k version of the Model S with cheaper, even less amazing versions eventually available instead of a $35k mass market car. This isn't a mass market car, it's an expensive toy that probably won't make a meaningful impact on the real mass market of Toyota/Honda/Subaru drivers. That's the group that needs to be sold on EVs for any meaningful transition away from ICE to occur.

I almost purchased a fully loaded CIVIC. Great feature set. Interior is ok/nice depending on who you ask. I thought nice. But I couldn't get over the small car ride. Made my wife car sick. Paying more for the bells and whistles didn't help the drive. Very different feel from my (old) 330ci.

I'll have to drive the Model-3 when it's available.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Also I cannot imagine going back to a non touch-screen command system - had a Merc rental just last week, all the buttons drove me nuts.

Same experience I have with recent high end Mercedes (SL and S Class). Once you get used to a touch-screen (I use one on my third party GPS unit regularly) it's maddening to go back to buttons and dials. Feels much more clunkier (especially when having to choose from a list of options, or worse: having to type an address).

 

[Stolz25]

So, I went ahead and did the A4 comparison. I left out items (for both) that I thought were either insignificant, or that both had:

Audi A4 vs. Tesla Model 3 (cheapest models in both cases):

Base price: $36k / $35k
Wheelbase (in) - 110.0 /113,2
Length (in) - 186.1 / 184,8
Height (in) - 56.2 / 56,8
Leg room (in, front) - 41.3 / 42,7
Leg room (in, rear) - 35.7 / 35,2
Track front (in) - 61.9 / 62,2
Track rear (in) - 61.2 / 62,2
Curb weight (lb) - 3,450 / 3549
Cargo capacity: 13 ft³ / 15 ft³
0-60: 7,1 sec / 5,6
Top speed: 130mph / 130 mph
3-zone automatic climate control / 2x2-zone computer-adjusted climate control
7" center display, 5" monochrome driver display / 15" touchscreen
Black or white, $575 for others / Black, $1000 for others

Audi A4 standard features lacked or options on Tesla Model 3
* Auto-dimming mirrors standard / Optional extra
* Leather (gearshift, seating) / Cloth
* Heated seats / Optional extra
* Rear fog lights / Optional extra
* Power seats / Optional extra

Tesla Model 3 standard features lacked on the Audi A4:
* 8 cameras, 12 ultrasound sensors and 1 radar for crash avoidance features, standard
* Remote control by app (preheating, monitoring, remote disable, etc)
* Standard 18" wheels (vs. 17" on the A4)
* Optional upgrade to autopilot
* Optional glass roof, dimming/heated/autofolding side mirrors, electronic steering column adjustment, automatic driver configuration

-----------

Maybe closer than the BMW comparison, but I don't see how the A4 wins this. Particularly with that 0-60 time, which is honestly embarrassing for a car in that price range. And once again, we're not considering EV incentives, fuel savings, or any of that sort of thing. Nor did I do into the quality of the infotainment systems.

The A4 also redefines clutter:

A4 steering wheel is on the wrong side. I didn't see that in the list.

 

[Waiting4M3]

I am exactly the same way. The first time I saw that interior and looked strange to me. Now when I see it back to back against a BMW or Audi, they are the ones that look strange. I think this sleek minimalistic look is going to grow popular very quickly. I think it is obviously the future of interior design.

I suspect that there will be a lot of that going on. I think the TM3 was so hyped with so much rumors, people coming from all different perspectives are expecting a lot of different things, and when some of those expectations didn't materialize, people's initial reaction is disappointment. But if given some time, and do a comparison with the intended competition (C-class/3-series/A4, etc), many will realize that the TM3 is very competitive.

Maybe the TM3 doesn't tick every box, so some will still choose not to buy it. It's perfectly fine. Tesla didn't price the TM3 cheaply because they didn't have to, and it would be a disservice to sell it too cheaply, make less $, and slow down executing the master plan. It would also be wrong for Tesla to try to satisfy everyone and end up building a "HomerMobile" that would cost too much to make. The TM3 is not meant to kill all other cars, it's just meant to sell 500K per year to finance future Tesla plans.