Tesla CPO Pricing

[Sundowner]

I had been watching the CPO listings for 18 months before I understood pricing trends, quantity volume treads & jumped on My Model S P85 Signature #0905 with 24,500 miles, last Nov.; I think I came out well at $52,100 with new warranty.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Maybe "marked to market" is the wrong term. What is my car worth on the open market? KBB, CarMax, CPO, PT Barnum. or a fair arms length. What ever you guys would figure is fair - to both sides. And I'm not selling, just pricing.

I'm still curious -- do you do this just for fun, or what tax scenario (other than depreciating business assets or assets you've actually sold) do you need to re-value your personal assets every year?

 

[Olds442]

Apparently all used Teslas just went up in value by $20,000

It seems like it when you see how cpo's are priced compared to October.

I do drive it like I stole it, i feel like I did.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

I'm still curious -- do you do this just for fun, or what tax scenario (other than depreciating business assets or assets you've actually sold) do you need to re-value your personal assets every year?

Need? no. I look up the value of my home - and compare it to neighbors - and use that to calibrate property tax. I look up the value of my investment portfolio ( dont make many trades, but keep an eye on it daily). I balance my checking account and verify credit card purchases to receipts. I look around my garage and make sure my insurance is still adequate. and I want to determine if my Tesla has depreciated a little or a lot. Would I buy a car if it dropped 5% or 30%/yr? Is it costing what I thought?
Seems like an annual reevaluation is prudent. Triggered by a home selling in my neighborhood, a death in the family, an insurance claim by a friend...life events by others makes me check my preparedness.

 

[chuckespinoza]

Its tax season and I like to "price to market" all my assets. Not that I intend to sell, but to clear the fog and be sure it is valued properly. Trying to value my 2016 75D (unlocked 60, and uncorked), tan leather, air suspension, AWD, pano, AP1.5, refreshed, titanium, 5yjsa1e21gf160xxx.delivered Sept 5, 2016 - just over 10,000 miles....has been awkward.
I WANT to see used prices high. Sorry you guys don't get to have such a good deal on your side, but it is better on my side. I paid a bunch - and would like to see a poor decline/flat depreciation in value. Don't you value a car ownership based just on acquisition, but also figure in operating cost, insurance and depreciation?

If I was to list this car for sale April 1, 2018 - what would be a fair street offer? [I have never seen a Titanium car listed...too valuable?]

What Tesla would charge someone else for your car and what it's value on the open market are completely different. Tesla's inflated CPO prices do not reflect true supply and demand, hence we are making fun at their ridiculous prices. If you really want to find the value check craigslist or completed ebay listings.
Here's some real world depreciation for you 2016 70D w AP - paid $93k looking for $63k (although in the body says best offer over $60k)
2016 Tesla Model S 70D

That's a 30% hit and I'm sure Tesla offered him in the 40s on a trade.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

What Tesla would charge someone else for your car and what it's value on the open market are completely different. Tesla's inflated CPO prices do not reflect true supply and demand, hence we are making fun at their ridiculous prices. If you really want to find the value check craigslist or completed ebay listings.
Here's some real world depreciation for you 2016 70D w AP - paid $93k looking for $63k (although in the body says best offer over $60k)
2016 Tesla Model S 70D

That's a 30% hit and I'm sure Tesla offered him in the 40s on a trade.

As you price this - the $93k is before $7500 rebate?. Does it include tax, registration, and state rebate?
If you uncorked the battery - would you add that to the paid price?
Seems like the options (pano, air, leather, dash, paint and AP) dont figure much into the current market price -
I expected window tint, mud guards, c-quartz, pano spring shades ..to be nice to have but of zero value to next buyer, but I am surprised that the "options" dont seem to matter.

ok - I looked at the morony attached link - and it is sticker with options before tax, rebate and license. Perhaps all these options make the car more appealing, but carries no financial. Depreciate to zero upon purchase.
What would you expect the depreciation to be in year 2? another 30%?

 

[Iwaboc70]

I'm having a hard time understanding how Tesla is pricing some of their CPO. This is just one example....2014 standard 60kwh for $64K. I get it has autopilot but how does this make any sense? At the same time, they also have a P85D priced at $66K. This is ridiculous and actually pretty shameful. For a company with such advanced cars that markets to more affluent customers this kind of thing is puzzling.

Used Inventory | Tesla

You're paying more because Tesla refurbishes the car to almost brand new and rewarrant it with a 2 or 4 year warranty. I would never buy a used Tesla from a dealer because it won't get refurbished, any problems it currently has will become my problems and I would never get my Tesla serviced anywhere other than Tesla. I can't imagine a used car dealer warranty providing any value for a Tesla. Teslas are very expensive to repair out of warranty. I am buying a CPO via Tesla right now and would do it again. The price is also dependent on the condition of the car when it gets sold to Tesla and then they add on some more for the refurb.

 

[chuckespinoza]

As you price this - the $93k is before $7500 rebate?. Does it include tax, registration, and state rebate?
If you uncorked the battery - would you add that to the paid price?
Seems like the options (pano, air, leather, dash, paint and AP) dont figure much into the current market price -
I expected window tint, mud guards, c-quartz, pano spring shades ..to be nice to have but of zero value to next buyer, but I am surprised that the "options" dont seem to matter.

ok - I looked at the morony attached link - and it is sticker with options before tax, rebate and license. Perhaps all these options make the car more appealing, but carries no financial. Depreciate to zero upon purchase.
What would you expect the depreciation to be in year 2? another 30%?

I imagine $93k was the purchase price. Tax rebate does not affect the amount of money that needs to change hands to buy it new. The rebate also doesn't translate into $7500 into the owners pocket.

Updated battery would definitely factor into resale. If the quartz and tint are your upgrades they just make it more attractive but not more valuable despite you spending a bunch of money on them.

I've learned that one man's bells and whistles that cost a lot of money often are worthless on resale (in houses and cars). I almost always lease my car and you know which car has a lower residual? The one that's all "tricked out" with NAV, premium sound, etc... One salesman explained that those items depreciate more because the newer version in 3 years will make those previous Tech upgrades worthless. Here's we are talking about a car that is all tech.

The problem with trying to figure out depreciation and what the fair value really is is that we don't have enough data. Those pioneers driving the 2013 Model S' were risking $100k. I personally wouldn't be caught dead with an electric car not under warranty that I can't buy parts for. After reading so much about issues with the cars (that Tesla seems great about addressing) I would think that those 2012/2013 out of warranty cars should become pretty cheap but that hasn't shown to be true. We just need a few people to finance $40k and then have to replace a drive unit or another big ticket item.

 

[kwjayhawk]

You're paying more because Tesla refurbishes the car to almost brand new and rewarrant it with a 2 or 4 year warranty. I would never buy a used Tesla from a dealer because it won't get refurbished, any problems it currently has will become my problems and I would never get my Tesla serviced anywhere other than Tesla. I can't imagine a used car dealer warranty providing any value for a Tesla. Teslas are very expensive to repair out of warranty. I am buying a CPO via Tesla right now and would do it again. The price is also dependent on the condition of the car when it gets sold to Tesla and then they add on some more for the refurb.

This is exactly why I would buy a CPO vehicle from Tesla. The refurb process is huge in minimizing my concerns. Or pay less from a private seller but transferable CPO warranty.

Private party sale with 0 warranty besides DU/Battery and I'd have to get it for a price where the difference would be self insuring (MCU/door handles/brakes/rotors).

I have no idea how people pay the prices non tesla dealers are asking unless they're not aware of the fact there is no warranty remaining except for DU/Battery when sold by a third party dealer.

Private party with no warranty remaining on DU/Battery (model 60s, heck even salvage but I would not necessarily put those in the same category for insurance purposes) and I'd have to go even lower. It would make no sense to financially be flipped so quickly with such a large repair bill.

I don't think that a car depreciates to 0 because that never happens, but what I don't see is a correlation in depreciation:time/mileage that is justifiable enough for me. I guess I'm too big of a prude to take a risk, or too tight with my money.

 

[tskguy]

This is just stupid! TESLA what the hell are you doing? I basically bought this car last year for 47k!!

 

[tskguy]

Shoot maybe it's a good time to upgrade.. You think tesla will give me 20k over what paid for it in a trade?
Kidding obviously...

 

[Electricious]

This is just stupid! TESLA what the hell are you doing? I basically bought this car last year for 47k!!View attachment 288512

They are many more examples of absurdly inflated CPO pricing.

They obviously don't want anyone to buy CPO cars at these prices. From what I hear, Tesla trade-in prices are as low as ever so they don't really believe that their used cars have gone up in value by 20K!

From what I can see, the CPO price fixing we see is an attempt to try and get people to buy new. Why else would you price 2-3 year cars almost as much as a new car?

 

[Electricious]

You're paying more because Tesla refurbishes the car to almost brand new and rewarrant it with a 2 or 4 year warranty.

Not exactly. It is hit or miss. Tesla has delivered flawless CPO cars and they have delivered CPO cars with major issues with repainted panels and other concerns. Sometimes they agree to fix such issues, other times they have refused.

There is nothing magically flawless about a the Tesla CPO process and it is not the consistent experience you think it is. Just search the forums and you will see all sorts of CPO experiences so if you buy a CPO car, better do your research on the car and examine it very carefully and be ready to refuse delivery if it is not what you expect.

Also beware that Tesla uses their CPO fleet as loaner cars so some of the cars to be offered as CPO cars can have the crap beaten out of them. I personally would not touch a CPO car being offered that has been used as a service loaner for a very long time.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

They really can't want to sell them, and of course higher CPO prices make it look like depreciation is really low and you may as well buy new. Some of the privates ads I've seen think they can get the same high prices. I do wonder if its in Teslas interest to take cars off the road, it doesn't make sense long term, but while their key measure is new car sales it makes a lot of sense.

 

[P85Dave]

They really can't want to sell them, and of course higher CPO prices make it look like depreciation is really low and you may as well buy new. Some of the privates ads I've seen think they can get the same high prices. I do wonder if its in Teslas interest to take cars off the road, it doesn't make sense long term, but while their key measure is new car sales it makes a lot of sense.

I don't think many people are buying these CPO cars at the current exorbitant pricing. In the meantime, the cars continue to depreciate.

If Tesla really wants to sell more new cars, they should update the interior from 2012. We will buy a new car as soon as there is an interior update and I bet tens of thousands of Tesla customers are waiting for the next major update before purchasing a new car as well.

At that point, they should stop playing games with the CPO inventory and pricing. Basically list everything and let people who want to buy a used car find the car they need.

 

[Electroman]

Basically list everything and let people who want to buy a used car find the car they need.

They should simply do eBay style bidding. Let the market decide.

 

[P85Dave]

They should simply do eBay style bidding. Let the market decide.

Still think it is a horrible buying experience with having auctions. It forces people to play all sorts of games waiting until a few minutes before bidding ends to submit bids.

Seriously, how hard is it to come up with reasonable prices and list the entire inventory. We loved the experience of buying a new Tesla but what Tesla has created to sell their used cars seems quite miserable by comparison.

 

[Electricious]

They should simply do eBay style bidding. Let the market decide.

Oh, god no. Don't think the eBay car buying is the what Tesla should try to recreate

 

[HankLloydRight]

Still think it is a horrible buying experience with having auctions. It forces people to play all sorts of games waiting until a few minutes before bidding ends to submit bids.

There's this really fun website for classic cars on auction, and they have an anti-sniping policy:

The best vintage and classic cars for sale online | Bring a Trailer

Auctions are live for 7 days with unique-to-BaT features like community comments (these help people bid with confidence), bidding charge holds (to help ensure quality bidders) and sniping protection (to give everyone a chance and help sellers get the best possible price).

Why does the clock keep resetting?
It’s common in online auctions for buyers to use special software to enter a bid in the very last seconds of the auction to outbid others without giving them a chance to respond. During the last 2 minutes of BaT Auctions, the clock resets to 2 minutes after every bid. This happens until no more bids are placed and the auction ends. This gives everyone a chance to place their bids and gives sellers a chance to sell to the true high bidder.

 

[P85Dave]

There's this really fun website for classic cars on auction, and they have an anti-sniping policy:

The best vintage and classic cars for sale online | Bring a Trailer

That's interesting but would it not be simpler if they would just list their entire inventory that people can then find easily on your Web site with the prices having some basis in reality?

The clock resetting for two minutes is fine but then you still need to keep an eye on the auction. Some might disagree but I find that auctions and the uncertainty associated with them are worse than buying a car from a dealer. I like knowing the price and the option to make an offer if I want to...

Perhaps Tesla should just add a "make offer" button so someone can offer to buy that $101K 2014 P85D for $80K or whatever...