Tesla.com - "Transitioning to Tesla Vision"

[Tam]

Unsaid is the fact that those with HW3 and paid FSD (our case, $8K and $6K in 2020 and 2018, respectively) will NOT get "Tesla Vision." With the abandonment of radar-equipped FSD betas (the 8.x city FSD), we are pushed to the back of the line.

How freakin' dumb is that?

Current Tesla Vision will temporarily lose some already existing functions that older cars have enjoyed.

I am not sure if many existing owners would be happy with Tesla Vision that takes away their already existing capabilities away, no matter how little or how temporary it will be.

But I guess you are talking about the button. The current promised button is 8.2 which is radar dependent and the promised button is voluntary so if indeed the next pure vision FSD beta 9x button will be available, you can push that button soon too. But remember "soon" might not be that soon.

As long as the button is promised, I don't expect those new cars will get the FSD beta unless they are among the lucky few.

Tesla is talking about the transition to achieve parity between the new cars to the old. The old will maintain existing capabilities, the new will need to catch up to parity in order to have the very same capabilities as the old.

FSD beta is another story. Wait for the promised button!

 

[rxlawdude]

Current Tesla Vision will temporarily lose some already existing functions that older cars have enjoyed.

I am not sure if many existing owners would be happy with Tesla Vision that takes their already existing capabilities away, no matter how little or how temporary it will be.

You forget with the "take away" comes FSD for city driving. That's a trade I would be sure many would be willing to make.

 

[rxlawdude]

You forget with the "take away" comes FSD for city driving. That's a trade I would be sure many would be willing to make. The alternative being pushed to the back of the line for city FSD.

 

[diplomat33]

Unsaid is the fact that those with HW3 and paid FSD (our case, $8K and $6K in 2020 and 2018, respectively) will NOT get "Tesla Vision."

Are you sure about that? Wouldn't we get Tesla Vision with a software update at some point?

 

[Tam]

You forget with the "take away" comes FSD for city driving. That's a trade I would be sure many would be willing to make.

FSD beta City Streets can be enjoyed only by a very few.

To magically transform a few into many, a "button" promised to appear for March 2021

https://twitter.com/x/status/1368329387733512193

So to get FSD beta City Streets, we need to find where that promised button is.

It has nothing to do with the currently announced transition that promises to take away existing capabilities.

 

[FloridaJohn]

Someone on Reddit seems to think the change might be due to an industry-wide scarcity of radar units.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/nkwihe/_/gzfcakz

 

[jjrandorin]

Not sure which one of these threads is going to end up getting more traction, but this discussion has also started in the Model 3 section. Since the new "transition to tesla vision" targets model 3 and Y, I did not move the discussion to this thread, but turned the post in the model 3 section into a master thread.

I am not attempting to move anyone from this thread over there (or that thread over here), just pointing out that there is a discussion starting in the model 3 section as well, and I left it there since the feature at start will be model 3 and Y specific.

I am sure both of these threads will get plenty of discussion, just making people who want to discuss this aware of the other location, and why its not merged here.

Discussion: Tesla Vision system for Model 3/Y

https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision So with the removal of physical radar on new 3's and Y's relying now on a pure vision based system, what does this mean for all the older cars with radar? Are we going to get a retrofit or a software update that re-optimizes the...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Lmao multiple car companies have been using Mobileye’s EyeQ with only cameras for AEB, a vast list of active safety and ADAS for years.

Omg Tesla can’t even match that

Where in this are you getting that Tesla can't match that?

By removing the radar Tesla is expecting to have feature parity without the Radar.

We don't yet know how well this vision only based system will compare to the existing system. But, we're going to find out really soon considering that their shipping cars without Radar. The temporary restrictions won't prevent comparisons in different weather conditions (where I fear we'll see a possible degradation in performance).

I don't feel as if Tesla matches features other vehicles have, and its a result of absurd cost cutting.

Like no proper blindspot monitoring
No rear cross traffic alert
No 360 degree parking

The latest cost cutting is removing the radar before the vision only system is at feature parity.

Edit: It is equally plausible that the premature removal of the radar wasn't cost cutting, but limited availability of the radar. Tesla wouldn't be the first company that nerfed a feature due to supply constraints.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Not sure which one of these threads is going to end up getting more traction, but this discussion has also started in the Model 3 section. Since the new "transition to tesla vision" targets model 3 and Y, I did not move the discussion to this thread, but turned the post in the model 3 section into a master thread.

I am not attempting to move anyone from this thread over there (or that thread over here), just pointing out that there is a discussion starting in the model 3 section as well, and I left it there since the feature at start will be model 3 and Y specific.

I am sure both of these threads will get plenty of discussion, just making people who want to discuss this aware of the other location, and why its not merged here.

Discussion: Tesla Vision system for Model 3/Y

https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision So with the removal of physical radar on new 3's and Y's relying now on a pure vision based system, what does this mean for all the older cars with radar? Are we going to get a retrofit or a software update that re-optimizes the...

teslamotorsclub.com

To me the discussions belongs in this thread as it relates to ADAS/AP/FSD, and that it impacts multiple models.

But, the problem with this section is only a small percentage of TMC users even venture over here.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Are you sure about that? Wouldn't we get Tesla Vision with a software update at some point?

Yeah, I don't see any reason why we would want Tesla Vision in a non-complete form. Any of us that have 4 digits in our FW version supposedly have Tesla Vision running in "shadow" mode.

I think some of us are just desperate to have something other than "Minor Cold Weather Improvements and Bug Fixes" to show up in our release notes.

Any of us that have HW3 will likely get the vision only update within a month or two.

Basically we'll be dragging dead weight along with us as the radar won't be used.

 

[jjrandorin]

To me the discussions belongs in this thread as it relates to ADAS/AP/FSD, and that it impacts multiple models.

But, the problem with this section is only a small percentage of TMC users even venture over here.

I hear you, and respect that opinion, which is why I said "I am not trying to relocate anyone from either thread". With that being said, although autopilot effects everyone, its model 3 and Y new owners starting in may who will be getting contacted from tesla about this, and have this implemented. Not everyone.

So, the discussion is appropriate in both places, at least in my opinion (and believe me, I normally move any and all "autopilot" questions in the model 3 forum to this subforum).

 

[jjrandorin]

Yeah, I don't see any reason why we would want Tesla Vision in a non-complete form. Any of us that have 4 digits in our FW version supposedly have Tesla Vision running in "shadow" mode.

I think some of us are just desperate to have something other than "Minor Cold Weather Improvements and Bug Fixes" to show up in our release notes.

Any of us that have HW3 will likely get the vision only update within a month or two.

Basically we'll be dragging dead weight along with us as the radar won't be used.

Since the model S and X will still be getting radar, its not like the autopilot software will not exist to handle radar, at least in the near term. None of us know (and I normally dont join in on any autopilot discussions because they all tend to go in circles) but since "autopilot with radar" will still exist, its my opinion that they will just remove the radar from new model 3s and Ys and make them be the beta testers for it, for some indeterminant amount of time.

No idea what that time is, but I doubt its "a month or two".

 

[InternetDude]

So does this mean that a Tesla will actually be able to drive coast to coast on FSD? LOL coming soon.

 

[greenmore]

Radar is clearly beneficial and vision will not be able to take over everything.

I noticed that my Model S can usually see the distance of the car in front of the car I'm following (2 cars ahead of me). Whenever that car brakes hard Autopilot seems to start applying my brakes even before the car in front of me starts braking. This also works when that car up front is not directly visible because it's occluded by the car directly in front of me. The only sensor that can potentially "see" that car up front is the radar.

 

[ZeApelido]

These takes being negative on Tesla improving their vision algorithms enough to not need (or soon not need) are mind-numbingly myopic.

 

[gearchruncher]

These takes being negative on Tesla improving their vision algorithms enough to not need (or soon not need) are mind-numbingly myopic.

Just another case of Tesla changing something ahead of time, still charging for it, and saying "trust us, we will fix it" instead of waiting to release it until it actually works. Many people have been burned by Tesla in the past when their delays to fix it take so long the lease is up before they really get to see it.

Are we discussing this as customers, or investors? It can really dramatically change your point of view, and both can be valid.

 

[greenmore]

Autopilot

All new Tesla vehicles are equipped with the hardware needed for Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capability features, designed to improve functionality over time.

www.tesla.com

Yesterday (Old) vs Today (New)
(Courtesy of the wayback machine.)

 

[Microterf]

To me the discussions belongs in this thread as it relates to ADAS/AP/FSD, and that it impacts multiple models.

But, the problem with this section is only a small percentage of TMC users even venture over here.

Haha. This is the only part of the forum I go to. Might have to venture out to the other sections.

 

[Yoliber]

I was hoping for at least new sensors or some type of hardware improvement. Especially with the recent price increases..

 

[greenmore]

Until yesterday radar played "an essential role in detecting and responding to forward objects."

I'm not saying that with better neural networks it's not possible to get more information out of camera images than what was possible in the past, but radar definitely helps. Those familiar with computer vision will say that 3D sensors (radar, lidar) can make a huge difference in 3D sensing. Especially when visibility is bad.

Pure vision alternatives are: computational stereo (need at least 2 cameras with some distance from each other looking at the same object), contextual cues (lane markings, shadows, etc), object recognition (you can estimate distance and pose from size if you know what the object looks like), etc. These work most of the time but they are significantly more difficult to do accurately without a 3D sensor helping.

I think the removal of the radar is a due to a combination of supply issues and cost, and not because it's not helpful. Though I'm sure they are working really hard on vision to try to recover as much of the lost information as possible. Of course Tesla will never actually admit this.