Tesla blesses other cars blocking two stalls due to short cord

[stopcrazypp]

This has been widely talked about. There were many teardowns and discussions when the Tesla/CCS adapters and clones came out. I googled it for you, here's a ford rep talking about the sensors in the Ford adapter.

I know the clones claim to have it, but I have not seen a claim that the official Tesla (vehicle) to CCS (charger) adapter has it. Interesting that the Tesla (supercharger) to CCS (vehicle) adapter does.

 

[bradtem]

I know the clones claim to have it, but I have not seen a claim that the official Tesla (vehicle) to CCS (charger) adapter has it. Interesting that the Tesla (supercharger) to CCS (vehicle) adapter does.

Of course they do. It's basic safety for electrical circuits at this level of power and lets you adjust current based on conditions rather than fixed spec. There are also temperature sensors at multiple locations in your Tesla Mobile Connector, and I presume the wall connector and the car socket itself. They are cheap. I've triggered them a couple of times.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Of course they do. It's basic safety for electrical circuits at this level of power and lets you adjust current based on conditions rather than fixed spec. There are also temperature sensors at multiple locations in your Tesla Mobile Connector, and I presume the wall connector and the car socket itself. They are cheap. I've triggered them a couple of times.

But for those Tesla explicitly claims there are temperature sensors. They make no such claim for the CCS adapter. I couldn't find any teardown of it though that shows the inside (if anyone has a link please link).

Note for the mechanism pointed out for the ford adapter, it's only a last resort safety mechanism (cuts off control pilot completely when it hits a set limit). It does not let you adjust current based on conditions, unlike the built in sensors you mentioned (which can communicate with the vehicle/charger/EVSE). That's why my question asked about communication.

 

[gt2690b]

Of course, these cars all have access to the CCS stations they use today. And I use CCS stations myself when in certain areas, or I simply use knowledge of their existence to remove any range anxiety in more remote areas -- I know that if I detour and won't make the SC, I can top up at them.

With this network the CCS drivers can have a more reliable and predictable trip along the major highways. The CCS stations, while we tell many nightmare stories about them, do work most of the time. It's just that when you are depending on it, not working even once can screw up a trip. I do feel that Ford drivers, using these stations, and CCS stations with good Plugshare scores, can now have a much more worry-free road trip. Not quite at the level of a Tesla driver with a CCS adapter, which is the best arrangement, but better than before.

It is interesting that they took the step of sending an adapter to every driver. It seems that since there are a LOT more cars than charging stations, a much cheaper and flexible approach would have been to put a locker cabinet at suitable superchargers, which authorized drivers can open to borrow (or even pay a few bucks to rent) an adapter. If you have digital serial numbers in the adapters that the charger can read, you can use that for accounting and also to make them pointless to steal, as they would only work in the stall they were activated for. The lockers would cost some money, but now you can enable any brand of car at no more hardware cost, and even improve the adapters if needed. And put in extension cables in the lockers too. You don't need as many extension cables as you have stalls.

instead of a locker maybe they could come up with some kind of magical dock? oh wait..

 

[ChrisInVegas]

Of course, these cars all have access to the CCS stations they use today. And I use CCS stations myself when in certain areas, or I simply use knowledge of their existence to remove any range anxiety in more remote areas -- I know that if I detour and won't make the SC, I can top up at them.

With this network the CCS drivers can have a more reliable and predictable trip along the major highways. The CCS stations, while we tell many nightmare stories about them, do work most of the time. It's just that when you are depending on it, not working even once can screw up a trip. I do feel that Ford drivers, using these stations, and CCS stations with good Plugshare scores, can now have a much more worry-free road trip. Not quite at the level of a Tesla driver with a CCS adapter, which is the best arrangement, but better than before.

It is interesting that they took the step of sending an adapter to every driver. It seems that since there are a LOT more cars than charging stations, a much cheaper and flexible approach would have been to put a locker cabinet at suitable superchargers, which authorized drivers can open to borrow (or even pay a few bucks to rent) an adapter. If you have digital serial numbers in the adapters that the charger can read, you can use that for accounting and also to make them pointless to steal, as they would only work in the stall they were activated for. The lockers would cost some money, but now you can enable any brand of car at no more hardware cost, and even improve the adapters if needed. And put in extension cables in the lockers too. You don't need as many extension cables as you have stalls.

For the first portion of your post.... 100% agreed. We have a MYLR and a Lightning. When in the Tesla, knowing CCS is a backup just gives us piece of mind. Now, then driving road trips in the Lightning, the CCS network will be my default, but knowing I can get a charge from Tesla will just make me feel better. I don't want to block two spots at a Supercharger, but absolutely will if I don't have a choice. My worry is all the folks that are going to just make Tesla superchargers their default choice when there are other options.

 

[gt2690b]

For the first portion of your post.... 100% agreed. We have a MYLR and a Lightning. When in the Tesla, knowing CCS is a backup just gives us piece of mind. Now, then driving road trips in the Lightning, the CCS network will be my default, but knowing I can get a charge from Tesla will just make me feel better. I don't want to block two spots at a Supercharger, but absolutely will if I don't have a choice. My worry is all the folks that are going to just make Tesla superchargers their default choice when there are other options.

i kind of want a lightning.. how is it?

 

[Big Earl]

I guess we should be thankful the Ford trucks have the plugs in the front. I wouldn't be looking forward to seeing a big pickup truck attempting to backup into a stall space next to me...just perpetually praying it doesn't hit me. One supercharger site near me requires sharp turns due to space limitations of an island.

Just FYI, pickup trucks are easier to maneuver in to and out of parking spaces backward. They also have better visibility going backward.

 

[T3SLAROD]

 

[stopcrazypp]

But for those Tesla explicitly claims there are temperature sensors. They make no such claim for the CCS adapter. I couldn't find any teardown of it though that shows the inside (if anyone has a link please link).

Note for the mechanism pointed out for the ford adapter, it's only a last resort safety mechanism (cuts off control pilot completely when it hits a set limit). It does not let you adjust current based on conditions, unlike the built in sensors you mentioned (which can communicate with the vehicle/charger/EVSE). That's why my question asked about communication.

Well I finally found a teardown of the OEM Tesla vehicle to CCS charger adapter (it was in a third party vendor page comparing the OEM one).
Inside the Tesla original ccs1 adapter Compare to LaTough

There's a circuit board with two temperature sensors (the one on the right is the Tesla one):

There's even a fire extinguishing pack:

 

[stopcrazypp]

View attachment 1024266

I'm not sure this solves the "wrong side" situation. For example for the rightmost stall, a Tesla would park to the left of it. However, the F-150 would still need to park to the right of it in the "wrong" stall, thus still taking up two spaces. Although the reach is less when parking on the "wrong side", the cable still isn't long enough to reach around to the other side if parking on the "correct side".

 

[Mark-YSR]

I've read through the first page and last page of this.
Around me, in the Toronto area, the Superchargers that show up as available are ones that are usually lightly utilized. None of the busy ones, including a new 32 stall one on the Toronto border, are included.
I'm pretty sure that Tesla chose the sites to open up based on certain utilization parameters to increase utilization and profitability at less used sites.
I'm not too worried about not being able to charge because other EVs are in those spots.

 

[gsmith123]

Superchargers have been open to all cars in Europe for years and guess what the world didn't end due to charge port position conflicts.

 

[bradtem]

Superchargers have been open to all cars in Europe for years and guess what the world didn't end due to charge port position conflicts.

I have not charged a Tesla in Europe, but every picture I see of a supercharger has the stalls configured for easier access than many of those in the USA. In the USA and Canada it's common to have a parking backstop and you need to get your tires right up to it (going under your rear bumper) to plug in with your Tesla, and in that case there could be problems for some non-Tesla cars. But I don't know if all the open European stations are like this. Short cords are good for various reasons, but they don't make parking easier.

 

[buckets0fun]

Superchargers have been open to all cars in Europe for years and guess what the world didn't end due to charge port position conflicts.

One could attribute part of that to CCS2 being rather reliable in Europe. Unlike the USA, where these types of conflicts are at EA stations fairly frequently.

Tin foil hat thought : make all EVs difficult to drive by allowing ‘non (port location) compliant’ EVs to cause issues / frustration en masse across “the best infrastructure” and “prove it can’t work”

Aka the recent talking points on all forms of media

 

[ChrisInVegas]

i kind of want a lightning.. how is it?

I will PM you to keep this thread from going off topic. (Anybody feel free to ask if you want my opinions specific to comparing our MYLR to the Lightning)

 

[ChooseFreedom]

What I noticed is that "Tesla drivers" takes the habit to park every other stall,
just as reminiscence of the shared 150 kW chargers, and also to more easily open the doors.

But in this case, this will block any "Non-Tesla" users who otherwise
would need to park half way in the middle of two consecutive stalls:

View attachment 1023703

 

[ChooseFreedom]

I think this is mostly a contrived problem made up by people looking for a reason to keep the supercharger walled garden in place.

99+% of the time this isn’t going to be an issue whatsoever. One can hope that automakers adopting NACS will also adopt a common charge point location that will make this a non-issue within the next refresh cycle.

Temporary inconvenience completely overblown by people looking to create a problem where at best a minor and transient issue exists.

It only takes one jerk having a bad day to pop off and start a confrontation.
TX and FL could end up with shots fired.

 

[ChooseFreedom]

If Tesla wants to make money off of non-Teslas they need to change the cords to ones long enough to support them. Suggesting non-Tesla car should occupy multiple spaces is just going to generate a lot of anger.

The longer the cable, the more instances of damage occurring, which means more overall down time for that charger, and more cost to fix them more often.
Tesla isn't going to simply double the length of the cables just for convenience. It still has to be cost-effective for them.

 

[OlderThanDirt]

Maybe by accident our local SuperCharger has the best set up for accommodating any charge port location. There is parking on both sides of the pedestals. Confuses Tesla owners from time to time…. Just needs to be signed non Tesla and trailers this side - Regular Tesla charging this side.

I thought I had a picture from the end but…

 

[Dr. D Flier]

So if a non-Tesla blocks 3 lanes and goes off and eats lunch are they gonna get hit with the same fees for parking after charging is done? Do they have to pay for the one they are using or all the ones they are blocking? Seems like this could become a mess.
I guess since they can block two or three (or more spots) and I am a Tesla owner I shouldn't worry about unhooking my trailer at a supercharger - just block 3 or four and plug in?