Telsa AP and the basic speed law

[socal_suburbanit]

As I remember it from HS, the basic speed law is 'it is legal to drive as fast as conditions allow'. So if foggy and visibility is poor it is not legal to drive the posted 65. Today I found myself in the only clear lane on the freeway in otherwise 10mph or so traffic. If I was in command I would accelerate only to a speed that I was comfortable having someone pulling out from a neighboring lane right in front of me. The AP (v8.5) was merrily accelerating way beyond that when I hit the brakes.

Would the AP have zipped up to 65mph if my lane was clear while neighboring lanes were at 10mph? Are there any conditions other than detecting an obstacle in its own lane that would cause the AP to travel at speeds lower than what is set?

 

[commasign]

Yeah. Would like to have some sort of flow of traffic speed setting.

 

[animorph]

It is happy to run at its set max speed unless there's a car in front, it's on an off ramp, or it's on a curve.

 

[Leafdriver333]

doesn't AP take neighboring lane speed into consideration?

 

[run-the-joules]

If you want it lower, set it lower.

doesn't AP take neighboring lane speed into consideration?

No

 

[srs5694]

It is happy to run at its set max speed unless there's a car in front, it's on an off ramp, or it's on a curve.

There are times when it gets it wrong, though. Just today, I had NoAP engaged and it was driving along at about 45mph in a 65mph zone. with other cars passing me on both sides. This situation lasted for just a few seconds before I hit the accelerator, whereupon AP disengaged. I re-engaged it and it was fine. My guess is that the car sensed a danger that wasn't there -- or maybe it sensed a potential danger that I didn't detect and that ended up not causing a problem, but that seems unlikely; the environment was pretty straightforward, with clear weather, in daylight, etc.

 

[daniel]

As I remember it from HS, the basic speed law is 'it is legal to drive as fast as conditions allow'. So if foggy and visibility is poor it is not legal to drive the posted 65. Today I found myself in the only clear lane on the freeway in otherwise 10mph or so traffic. If I was in command I would accelerate only to a speed that I was comfortable having someone pulling out from a neighboring lane right in front of me. The AP (v8.5) was merrily accelerating way beyond that when I hit the brakes.

Would the AP have zipped up to 65mph if my lane was clear while neighboring lanes were at 10mph? Are there any conditions other than detecting an obstacle in its own lane that would cause the AP to travel at speeds lower than what is set?

I think what you might have meant was that it is illegal to drive faster than is safe under the conditions. I don't think it's ever legal to drive above the posted speed limit. (Caveat: a very few jurisdictions have no posted upper limit, and then it's permitted to drive as fast as is safe.)

AP allows you to set an upper limit that's slower than the posted limit. That's what you're probably supposed to do in conditions like you describe. Remember, it's a driver-assist feature, not an autonomous driving feature, and it's a beta feature that requires your vigilance and common sense. You are supposed to overrule the car when it cannot detect an issue that requires special consideration. And a known weakness of TACC (known to us, if not to Tesla) is that upon being engaged it will quickly accelerate to what it thinks is the posted limit, plus (or minus?) your offset. You cannot (unless they've changed this while I was gone over the winter) choose a set speed before engaging TACC or AP.

 

[ewoodrick]

But in rainy and foggy conditions, the car can probably see better than you. But since you are in commend, just roll the speed down to what you feel comfortable with.

Oh, and by the way, for those of us with HOV/HOT lanes, that very situation happens just about every day. It takes a little self training to do 60 next to 10, but the law doesn't allow cars to cross the double white lanes in Georgia, so they shouldn't move over. And if you don't feel comfortable driving this way, then there are a lot of other lanes that aren't moving as fast.

 

[Leafdriver333]

There are times when it gets it wrong, though. Just today, I had NoAP engaged and it was driving along at about 45mph in a 65mph zone. with other cars passing me on both sides. This situation lasted for just a few seconds before I hit the accelerator, whereupon AP disengaged. I re-engaged it and it was fine. My guess is that the car sensed a danger that wasn't there -- or maybe it sensed a potential danger that I didn't detect and that ended up not causing a problem, but that seems unlikely; the environment was pretty straightforward, with clear weather, in daylight, etc.

I thought pressing the accelerator does not disengage AP.

 

[srs5694]

There are times when it gets it wrong, though. Just today, I had NoAP engaged and it was driving along at about 45mph in a 65mph zone. with other cars passing me on both sides. This situation lasted for just a few seconds before I hit the accelerator, whereupon AP disengaged.

I thought pressing the accelerator does not disengage AP.

That surprised me at the moment, too. I recall seeing a message pop up on the screen once about how I was using the accelerator pedal with AP engaged, but AP remained engaged that time. Maybe it disengages only with hard(-ish) acceleration or when the speed delta is too great; or maybe it disengaged for some other reason and it just happened to coincide with my acceleration.

 

[daniel]

There are times when it gets it wrong, though. Just today, I had NoAP engaged and it was driving along at about 45mph in a 65mph zone. with other cars passing me on both sides. This situation lasted for just a few seconds before I hit the accelerator, whereupon AP disengaged. I re-engaged it and it was fine. My guess is that the car sensed a danger that wasn't there -- or maybe it sensed a potential danger that I didn't detect and that ended up not causing a problem, but that seems unlikely; the environment was pretty straightforward, with clear weather, in daylight, etc.

I thought pressing the accelerator does not disengage AP.

I frequently use AP on the major thoroughfare in town here. The car stops when a car ahead is stopped at a light. But it's reluctant to start moving when the car ahead moves. Left on its own it would wait until there's a considerable distance between cars before it starts. So to avoid this I give it some pedal when the car ahead starts to move, and then mine also starts to move, and after that maintains a proper distance. Stepping on the accelerator does not disengage AP. Also, there are times when it brakes for what it thinks is an obstacle, such as a car turning left ahead of me, too far ahead to be an actual obstacle. I give it some pedal then also, and it resumes normal operation, without disengaging AP. I've never floored it or used the pedal to try to exceed the set speed with AP engaged, so I don't know what it would do then.

 

[Moose408]

I frequently use AP on the major thoroughfare in town here. The car stops when a car ahead is stopped at a light. But it's reluctant to start moving when the car ahead moves. Left on its own it would wait until there's a considerable distance between cars before it starts. So to avoid this I give it some pedal when the car ahead starts to move, and then mine also starts to move, and after that maintains a proper distance. Stepping on the accelerator does not disengage AP. Also, there are times when it brakes for what it thinks is an obstacle, such as a car turning left ahead of me, too far ahead to be an actual obstacle. I give it some pedal then also, and it resumes normal operation, without disengaging AP. I've never floored it or used the pedal to try to exceed the set speed with AP engaged, so I don't know what it would do then.

I use the accelerator quite often when on AP. For both the scenarios you mentioned and also occasionally because I have a fast moving car approaching me from behind and I want to get in front of the car next to me to move over.

It works fine to use the pedal to exceed the set speed with AP engaged as long as you don't go over 90mph. If you do AP is disabled for the remainder of your trip.

 

[focher]

Pressing the accelerator pedal does not disengage AP, but it does disengage AEB as long as the pedal is depressed.

 

[GeoX750]

As I remember it from HS, the basic speed law is 'it is legal to drive as fast as conditions allow'. So if foggy and visibility is poor it is not legal to drive the posted 65. Today I found myself in the only clear lane on the freeway in otherwise 10mph or so traffic. If I was in command I would accelerate only to a speed that I was comfortable having someone pulling out from a neighboring lane right in front of me. The AP (v8.5) was merrily accelerating way beyond that when I hit the brakes.

Would the AP have zipped up to 65mph if my lane was clear while neighboring lanes were at 10mph? Are there any conditions other than detecting an obstacle in its own lane that would cause the AP to travel at speeds lower than what is set?

I think this question is missing a big point.

AP does not make your Tesla a self driving car. You are always responsible for driving the car, even if AP is engaged. You cannot abdicate that responsibility to the car at any time.

So you are responsible for not driving too fast for conditions, not the car. You set the speed the speed of the car, not AP.

That being said, it is likely that in fog the camera could not see and AP would disengage? I don't think the car would blindly cruise along with camera obscured?

 

[Majsa]

doesn't AP take neighboring lane speed into consideration?

I went for a test drive this weekend

On the return portion (when I was behind the wheel) the salesman had me engage AP.
Buzzing along at 65 where the freeway splits (210 East to the 210 for you SoCal folks); traffic always backs up hard in the right lanes.
AP had me at full speed while the lane next to me is at a dead stop. The salesman told me to take over (I was about to do it anyways) to slow down.

tl;dr No

 

[ThreeDX]

If you want it lower, set it lower.


No

Setting it lower does nothing for the issue the AP is taking about, which is momentary sleeping in neighboring lanes. Same thing happens to me on my morning commute and I have to remotely turn AP off because it's dangerous and not acting as a human driver would

Edit: I don't want to have to manually and temporarily adjust my speed but 20-30 mph for adjacent lane monitoring that Tesla can already see/analyze, and just needs to update its rule sets for

 

[ThreeDX]

But in rainy and foggy conditions, the car can probably see better than you. But since you are in commend, just roll the speed down to what you feel comfortable with.

Oh, and by the way, for those of us with HOV/HOT lanes, that very situation happens just about every day. It takes a little self training to do 60 next to 10, but the law doesn't allow cars to cross the double white lanes in Georgia, so they shouldn't move over. And if you don't feel comfortable driving this way, then there are a lot of other lanes that aren't moving as fast.

There's no way the car can see better than a person. Our resolution, sensitivities, focusing ability, etc., can't be touched by commerical cameras and processing. Maybe if they were using lidar and scanning a range/wavelength we can't see, but they're not.

 

[focher]

Setting it lower does nothing for the issue the AP is taking about, which is momentary sleeping in neighboring lanes. Same thing happens to me on my morning commute and I have to remotely turn AP off because it's dangerous and not acting as a human driver would

Edit: I don't want to have to manually and temporarily adjust my speed but 20-30 mph for adjacent lane monitoring that Tesla can already see/analyze, and just needs to update its rule sets for

Can you just re-read your edit and then decide whether to double down on your position. Just a little perspective about where autonomous driving capabilities are at and a sigh of “damn, that’s pretty good and I’m just along for the ride”.

No? Ok.

 

[Thp3]

There's no way the car can see better than a person. Our resolution, sensitivities, focusing ability, etc., can't be touched by commerical cameras and processing. Maybe if they were using lidar and scanning a range/wavelength we can't see, but they're not.

From Tesla.cm
“Eight surround cameras provide 360 degrees of visibility around the car at up to 250 meters of range. Twelve updated ultrasonic sensors complement this vision, allowing for detection of both hard and soft objects at nearly twice the distance of the prior system. A forward-facing radar with enhanced processing provides additional data about the world on a redundant wavelength that is able to see through heavy rain, fog, dust and even the car ahead.”

Yeah, the existing sensors can be better than people. I’ve noticed on the screen cars three and four ahead of me that I did not see with my eyes. But radar did.

The computer processing of the cameras is currently limited by the HW2 computer. At HW3 the full camera resolution will be used and many more frames per second. This should allow better computer vision and the car to “see” better than most human drivers.

We will know more after a few months of HW3 use. Exciting times!

 

[T34ME]

There's no way the car can see better than a person. Our resolution, sensitivities, focusing ability, etc., can't be touched by commerical cameras and processing. Maybe if they were using lidar and scanning a range/wavelength we can't see, but they're not.

DISAGREE. My night vision capability is decreasing as my eyes age up. It is difficult for me to see somewhat faded lane markings in the glare of lights from on-coming traffic. AP never fails me in those conditions. Steady as a rock, maintaining the car's position in the lane. It drives better and safer than I can in those conditions.