SR+ vs LR RWD. How much more pain on a long trip?

[11thIndian]

I'm still waiting on paperwork before I can trade in my current car for a Model 3.

In a "money not an issue" scenario of course I'd go for long range. But my family wants to travel, and since the Model Y doesn't look like it's going to be the replacement for our Tiguan I thought it would, I've decided to get a Model 3 as our local commuter until a good replacement does present itself (Rivan RS1 or VW I.D. BUZZ are possibilities).

That being the case I've had it in my mind to go with the SR+; the 240mi, even with the general range reductions applied (charge to 90%, heating/AC, etc) will be plenty for my drive to work (8mi each direction). And even short trips to Monterey, Napa, or Tahoe from the Bay Are will need no to 1 charging stop.

But of course the allure of long range is always nagging at me. So I decided to use A Better Route Planner to do an experiment. Next Summer I may decide to drive back home to Ontario for a couple of weeks. How much more inconvenient is it to do this trip in a SR+ vs a LR RWD. Bay Area CA to Hamilton ON is 2647mi.

In the end I ran the numbers for the whole gambit of vehicles just to see what the spread looks like.

SR
24 Stops • Charge Time 11:24 • Trip Time 52:46

SR+
23 Stops • Charge Time 9:54 • Trip Time 51:03

MR RWD
21 Stops • Charge Time 8:17 • Trip Time 49:08

LR AWD 19”
20 Stops • Charge Time 7:58 • Trip Time 48:29

LR RWD 19”
19 Stops • Charge Time 7:38 • Trip Time 47:57

LR RWD 18” Aero
19 Stops • Charge Time 6:49 • Trip Time 47:07

So between the 2 vehicles I was considering, on a basically cross-country trip, the LR RWD saves you just about 3 hours in charge/trip duration time. Way less than I was expecting. Even with the 18" aeros, its only 4.

Going down to the SR adds an additional hour and a half to the spread.

So this was a useful exercise for me. Is the 7K more $$ for the LR RWD worth it for 4 hour difference maybe once a year? Or even once every 2 years?

At this point no. I think the spread will widen once V3 chargers are along this route, since the SR+ won't be able to achieve the 250Kwh rate of the full size battery. Right now there's only guesses (some think the in the 170's).

Anyway, in case anyone else is balancing on this particular edge, maybe this post will be useful to you as well.

 

[Wennfred]

Great comparison on both rides, thanks

Fred

 

[David_Cary]

But this is not the only difference.
Real life example trips.
130 miles to camp (with no charging). 260 mile RT. LR - home with 40 left. SR+ - divert to supercharger 40 mins out of way. Adds 1 hr to 2.5 hour return trip.

Easter trip to inlaws - 150 miles one way. It was cold and I drove fast so I did a 5 min stop at a supercharge. It would have been 25 min in a SR+.

Drove RT to pick up son 120 miles away. Doable in an SR+ with driving slow. Speed limit is 70 for most of the way so it is nice to not worry about it.

I have a 70D that now has a 220 range. We got an LR 2 months ago. So I have experience with both ranges.

Going to mountains to drop son off at Camp in July - 285 miles away. If I can get destination charging (we are staying overnight nearby) - then no SC stops. If not, I will make a stop or 2. With an SR+ - there is definitely a stop and possibly 3.

It is wickedly more common to make 200-300 miles trips than cross country trips. Then the difference can be stop or no stop. And when the SC is out of the way, it can be a big deal.

Lastly (I promise) - degradation. Our 70D has gone from 240 to 220 at 73k miles. It will be serviceable for a long time. But the range gradually becomes more of an issue.

 

[16Coma]

11thIndian, did you account for the efficiency ratings for each vehicle? This may add additional stops to your trip. I have the LR AWD 19" which yields ~ 80% based on my driving experience. I've made a couple of trips from VA to GA (567 mi, 1way). My last trip there, I didn't plan. Seven stops and $80.12 of supercharging made me wish I had a longer range vehicle. So, I drove the Odyssey last time down. The energy cost was cheaper too. I'm holding out for the Rivian 400mi range p/u.
just my two cents

 

[OCR1]

My biggest surprise after purchasing my Model 3 is how much vampire drain occurs when you use things like Sentry Mode. Sometimes just opening and closing the door a few times to get stuff out of my car causes drain. And sometimes I feel like driving faster than the “optimal” speed to get the maximum range, or it gets really hot and I need to blast the A/C.

I would agree that for 95% of the daily driving you do in a car the SR or SR+ is fine. But there is something very comforting about our LR RWD models in knowing that we have so much extra buffer that we never really have to think about it. Is that piece of mind worth an extra $6K? That’s a personal decision. But I do believe that on resale we will likely get back at least half the $6K, so maybe my true cost for having the LR model was $3K extra. Seems like a bargain to me.

 

[SoCalDriver]

I have several friends that purchased the MR or SR+. All of them wish they had spent a little more and gotten the LR. I opted for the LR and have not regretted it, even though I haven’t gone below 40%.

“I wish I had gotten less range” said nobody ever

 

[Leafdriver333]

For a long road trip over 400 miles I would just take our ICE.
So much more convenient and the fuel cost will be about the same.

 

[ngogas]

If one can afford it, always go for the larger battery.

 

[SoManyM3s]

The more supercharging you do the more battery degradation you will get. So your already shorter range battery will get even shorter faster.

 

[11thIndian]

The more supercharging you do the more battery degradation you will get. So your already shorter range battery will get even shorter faster.

Supercharging would be very rare. Only for trips that we don’t use the Tiguan for, which would exclude winter trips to Tahoe, or trips where we need to take the kid + 75lb sheepdog. Specific trips I might take would be: LA for work, maybe once a year; Vegas for Work, again maybe once a year; Napa when my wife and I can get away on our own for a day or two; and then the aforementioned stab at cross country, maybe once every 2 years.

I won’t even need to charge at home. We get free Level 2 charging at work.

This is the hell I’ve been putting myself thru, and honestly I’m glad I’ve had this much time to think about it. I’m trying to be very pragmatic about what this car is for. At the same time I’m imagining how much I’ll WANT to drive the car on longer trips. Part of the reason I’m backing away from the Model Y - it would be a compromise in most respects as a long-range family vehicle than the Tiguan - and so I may be saving my marriage by not constantly have the fight with her about which vehicle to take!

I think honestly the best case for spending the extra $$ now would be long term value. At least I think today “Long Range” is going to stand up to better scrutiny in a few years as range and charging performance continues to improve.

 

[11thIndian]

11thIndian, did you account for the efficiency ratings for each vehicle? This may add additional stops to your trip. I have the LR AWD 19" which yields ~ 80% based on my driving experience. I've made a couple of trips from VA to GA (567 mi, 1way). My last trip there, I didn't plan. Seven stops and $80.12 of supercharging made me wish I had a longer range vehicle. So, I drove the Odyssey last time down. The energy cost was cheaper too. I'm holding out for the Rivian 400mi range p/u.
just my two cents

This was all done via abetterroutplanner.com, which people say is a more accurate gauge than Tesla’s own planner, so I’m taking their calculations as ‘fair’.

The Rivian is definitely growing in my mind as the Tiguan replacement in a few year, though it may be a touch bigger than I might like - but I have to see it in person. I wish there was a place they listed where it is available for viewing. though they say the R1S is going to start at $73K, I’m sure the longer range battery will be pushing it into the $90K’s.

 

[Matt L]

I'm still waiting on paperwork before I can trade in my current car for a Model 3.

In a "money not an issue" scenario of course I'd go for long range. But my family wants to travel, and since the Model Y doesn't look like it's going to be the replacement for our Tiguan I thought it would, I've decided to get a Model 3 as our local commuter until a good replacement does present itself (Rivan RS1 or VW I.D. BUZZ are possibilities).

That being the case I've had it in my mind to go with the SR+; the 240mi, even with the general range reductions applied (charge to 90%, heating/AC, etc) will be plenty for my drive to work (8mi each direction). And even short trips to Monterey, Napa, or Tahoe from the Bay Are will need no to 1 charging stop.

But of course the allure of long range is always nagging at me. So I decided to use A Better Route Planner to do an experiment. Next Summer I may decide to drive back home to Ontario for a couple of weeks. How much more inconvenient is it to do this trip in a SR+ vs a LR RWD. Bay Area CA to Hamilton ON is 2647mi.

In the end I ran the numbers for the whole gambit of vehicles just to see what the spread looks like.

SR
24 Stops • Charge Time 11:24 • Trip Time 52:46

SR+
23 Stops • Charge Time 9:54 • Trip Time 51:03

MR RWD
21 Stops • Charge Time 8:17 • Trip Time 49:08

LR AWD 19”
20 Stops • Charge Time 7:58 • Trip Time 48:29

LR RWD 19”
19 Stops • Charge Time 7:38 • Trip Time 47:57

LR RWD 18” Aero
19 Stops • Charge Time 6:49 • Trip Time 47:07

So between the 2 vehicles I was considering, on a basically cross-country trip, the LR RWD saves you just about 3 hours in charge/trip duration time. Way less than I was expecting. Even with the 18" aeros, its only 4.

Going down to the SR adds an additional hour and a half to the spread.

So this was a useful exercise for me. Is the 7K more $$ for the LR RWD worth it for 4 hour difference maybe once a year? Or even once every 2 years?

At this point no. I think the spread will widen once V3 chargers are along this route, since the SR+ won't be able to achieve the 250Kwh rate of the full size battery. Right now there's only guesses (some think the in the 170's).

Anyway, in case anyone else is balancing on this particular edge, maybe this post will be useful to you as well.

Overly simplistic comparison. Someone else mentioned the shorter trips that you would have to charge for that the LR wouldn’t but also, don’t forget that the LR charges faster than the SR. It does so on V2 superchargers but will be dramatically faster on the V3s.

And other than Range the LR comes with many more options. The LR RWD I still think is the best value. (If you don’t need AWD)

 

[VT_EE]

11thIndian, did you account for the efficiency ratings for each vehicle? This may add additional stops to your trip. I have the LR AWD 19" which yields ~ 80% based on my driving experience. I've made a couple of trips from VA to GA (567 mi, 1way). My last trip there, I didn't plan. Seven stops and $80.12 of supercharging made me wish I had a longer range vehicle. So, I drove the Odyssey last time down. The energy cost was cheaper too. I'm holding out for the Rivian 400mi range p/u.
just my two cents

Really? I drove 800miles one way to Michigan and only stopped 3 times in my RWD 3? I think I spent $30 in Supercharging.

 

[11thIndian]

Overly simplistic comparison. Someone else mentioned the shorter trips that you would have to charge for that the LR wouldn’t but also, don’t forget that the LR charges faster than the SR. It does so on V2 superchargers but will be dramatically faster on the V3s.

And other than Range the LR comes with many more options. The LR RWD I still think is the best value. (If you don’t need AWD)

Charging speed for SR+ is definitely been something I’ve been following closely. Looks like even after the recent software updates, that SR cars only get about 105kW on V2. I don’t think anyone has tried an SR vehicle on V3, so it’s mostly speculation by a couple of users here. No doubt the LR is going to benefit much more once those are available in abundance- however long that takes.

Now that I’m a West Coast guy, I think LR RWD will do just fine, if I was still living in Ontario, definitely. AWD will be a must for the Tiguan replacement.

 

[Tam]

...accurate gauge...

It's a great comparisons in theory but as others have pointed out, the reality might be different.

In addition, one great advantage that a longer range can do is you have the flexibility to choose which Supercharger station that is less populated to charge.

 

[Austindude]

OK my two cents after about 16 months of ownership with an LR RWD Model 3. During some weather conditions such as high winds and or rain I would almost feel better with even more range than my car presently gets. We make frequent trips all around Texas and yes we use the superchargers but still I get a little antsy when I get below 20%. I know other owners are now laughing at this but in my opinion buy all the range you can afford and then spend whatever remains on other upgrades. That's me though, and I'm just an old fart! My opinion is worth what you paid for it!

 

[johnnyS]

The short range will take much longer to charge since you will have to charge to a higher percentage of charge. The charging rate tapers to agonizingly slow for the the last few percent. A 70% charge in a long range is much different than a 90% charge in a short range car.

 

[bpjod]

my family wants to travel, and since the Model Y doesn't look like it's going to be the replacement for our Tiguan

OK, I'll bite. How is the Model Y not going to be as good a road-tripping vehicle as the Tiguan? We do a LOT of road-tripping and our Model 3 hauls all four of us and all the same stuff we used to haul in our Touareg. Considering the Tiguan is SMALLER than the Touareg and the Model Y will be LARGER than the Model 3 is, you've lost me. Also, the sound system, NAV system, autopilot, smoother drive, lack of noise/vibration etc. all add up to making the road trip FAR more relaxing and enjoyable in the Tesla than in an ICE SUV.

Here are some tips on packing the Model 3.

• Most importantly: ditch the suitcases. Duffels make for a far better usage of space. They can be squished into any space available, including the frunk. Suitcases are not malleable and often have protrusions like the wheels. They leave a LOT of wasted space around them.
• Be sure to use up the space below the floor of the trunk. In fact I just leave the removable floor dividing the two spaces at home when on a road trip - then you won't have wasted space if your items don't perfectly fill the under floor space.
• I like to put all the "car things" in the frunk (tire repair kit, tire inflator, charge cable kit, etc.) as well as a large duffel we have that fits the remaining space perfectly when the duffel about 80% full. This makes it easy to access the car things when needed without having to unpack much of the trunk to get at them due to the smaller size and shallower depth of the frunk.
• Unfortunately the smallish trunk opening means that it doesn't accept large items very well. I have had to fold down the rear seat to stuff larger items (e.g. my recycling bins) into the trunk from there and put the rear seat back up, best again to use smaller duffels to fill the car.
• We regularly use a roof box, we did with the Touareg too. It's far easier to get items out of and into the roof box when mounted on a car than on an SUV!

Confession time: for our week-long ski trips the car is loaded with no spare space left. The roof box now has all our skis and poles, as well as two peoples' bags of helmets and boots. With the Touareg we used to fit all four bags of ski boots and helmets inside the SUV so truly the difference in size between the Model 3 and the Touareg is 2 ski boot/helmet bags. Also, a little more effort is required to fit everything inside the Model 3 whereas I just tossed bags into the back of the Touareg. Technically I do haul "all the same stuff we used to haul in our Touareg" but two of the ski boot/helmet bags have shifted to the roof box.

As another point of data, last summer my 2 boys, my father and I went on a fishing trip off the West Coast of Vancouver Island. The rental vehicle we used on Vancouver Island was a Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd. I kind of forgot we'd have to bring fish back with us! We had 150 lbs of halibut and salmon packed in 3 coolers to bring home with us. On the way back to the airport, the SUV was stuffed to within a couple of inches from the roof. I worried about fitting it all into my Model 3 so we could get back home from Edmonton Intl Airport. Turns out the coolers fit perfectly in the trunk of the Model 3 (definitely caught a lucky break there) and we managed to fit all our bags in the frunk, under trunk space and the remaining space in the trunk.

 

[StellarRat]

But this is not the only difference.
Real life example trips.
130 miles to camp (with no charging). 260 mile RT. LR - home with 40 left. SR+ - divert to supercharger 40 mins out of way. Adds 1 hr to 2.5 hour return trip.

Easter trip to inlaws - 150 miles one way. It was cold and I drove fast so I did a 5 min stop at a supercharge. It would have been 25 min in a SR+.

Drove RT to pick up son 120 miles away. Doable in an SR+ with driving slow. Speed limit is 70 for most of the way so it is nice to not worry about it.

I have a 70D that now has a 220 range. We got an LR 2 months ago. So I have experience with both ranges.

Going to mountains to drop son off at Camp in July - 285 miles away. If I can get destination charging (we are staying overnight nearby) - then no SC stops. If not, I will make a stop or 2. With an SR+ - there is definitely a stop and possibly 3.

It is wickedly more common to make 200-300 miles trips than cross country trips. Then the difference can be stop or no stop. And when the SC is out of the way, it can be a big deal.

Lastly (I promise) - degradation. Our 70D has gone from 240 to 220 at 73k miles. It will be serviceable for a long time. But the range gradually becomes more of an issue.

This is probably the best example of the difference between an LR RWD and something else. It's not the cross country trips, it's the way more common medium range trips where you get to skip charging vs. a shorter ranged car. Most will probably consider flying when the distance starts to exceed 500 miles one way unless you have unlimited time and like to drive. So, the LR with 2-3 charges can make a 1000 mile round trip, but anything else is going to take twice the number of stops. Another point to consider is that an LR that is driven at less than 70 mph could well exceed 310 miles one way. In my state I can go 60 mph in the truck lane (that's as fast as they can go as well) if I want to really maximize my range.

 

[SoManyM3s]

This is probably the best example of the difference between an LR RWD and something else. It's not the cross country trips, it's the way more common medium range trips where you get to skip charging vs. a shorter ranged car. Most will probably consider flying when the distance starts to exceed 500 miles one way unless you have unlimited time and like to drive. So, the LR with 2-3 charges can make a 1000 mile round trip, but anything else is going to take twice the number of stops. Another point to consider is that an LR that is driven at less than 70 mph could well exceed 310 miles one way. In my state I can go 60 mph in the truck lane (that's as fast as they can go as well) if I want to really maximize my range.

Some people have done calculations and unless you're trying to get home without charging, it's more time efficient to go your preferred fast speed and charge a little bit longer rather than go slow which wastes time off the road.