Merrill
Merrill
I have not seen anything over 100kW and 250miles per hour anywhere I have charged in over a year.
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Some California Superchargers not providing maximum charging rates
- Thread starter Tony8489
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- California Supercharging USA
Merrill
Merrill
At Gilroy in October I was getting constant bounces between 8 and 50 Kw with more around 8 than 50. The next day I spoke with a tech at the Manteca SC. He was replacing the plugs on all the SCs. I told him about my experience at Gilroy and he said he had fixed one of the SCs there the afternoon before. There are many reasons an SC can have speed issues, but they all start with overheating from overuse. The parts in there get too hot and degrade.
The core of an SC is a stack of car chargers. One or more can fail. The wiring in the control circuits can develop loose connections as solder joints fail, and the control circuits themselves can become unstable from heat damage.
The best thing to do when you get an unreliable SC is call Tesla service and move to another charger if you can. They do get to them quickly, but it doesn't help you in the moment.
cpa
Active Member
Wdolson,
I experienced the dread reduced rates in Manteca and also at Corning in late September. I telephoned Tesla. I clearly explained that I was the only car present. I explained that my initial rate was ~115kWh, but within two minutes plummeted to around 58 before stabilizing at 72. The employee was nice, but seemed unconcerned about the situation. He seemingly read from a list of canned answers: (1) Find an unpaired stall because the second to plug in receives a lower charge at the beginning. [Were you even listening to me, Tesla employee?] (2) Try another stall. He screen indicated that I could choose from any of the remaining seven. [How does this reconcile with your previous statement?]
I merely wanted the representative to communicate to the correct department that the charge rates were about 60% of ideal. He seemed reluctant or unable to pass along the information.
Since I did not feel like this was important enough for their representatives, I do not wish to waste my time and punch buttons on my phone and wait on hold to report something like this. It seemed to me to be an exercise in futility.
I experienced the dread reduced rates in Manteca and also at Corning in late September. I telephoned Tesla. I clearly explained that I was the only car present. I explained that my initial rate was ~115kWh, but within two minutes plummeted to around 58 before stabilizing at 72. The employee was nice, but seemed unconcerned about the situation. He seemingly read from a list of canned answers: (1) Find an unpaired stall because the second to plug in receives a lower charge at the beginning. [Were you even listening to me, Tesla employee?] (2) Try another stall. He screen indicated that I could choose from any of the remaining seven. [How does this reconcile with your previous statement?]
I merely wanted the representative to communicate to the correct department that the charge rates were about 60% of ideal. He seemed reluctant or unable to pass along the information.
Since I did not feel like this was important enough for their representatives, I do not wish to waste my time and punch buttons on my phone and wait on hold to report something like this. It seemed to me to be an exercise in futility.
Yeah, I've contact them before with mixed success. The first time I was told it was due to "battery conditioning" which is pure BS because I have access to diagnostic data and I knew this was not the case.
However, in some instances they can tell you a specific stall to try based on max amps which only they can see on their side.
However, in some instances they can tell you a specific stall to try based on max amps which only they can see on their side.
Khatsalano
Member
I recently completed a SF - Palm Springs trip last weekend and here is a general observation and some specific ones. In general, I find that charging at outlying SC locations to be far better for charge rates and for queueing issues. SCs in major towns and cities are a pain to deal with.
Here are my specific observations. I arrived at the SCs during this trip between 9-20% SOC, with ambient temps between 48-58F. Max charge rates observed only within initial SOC phases as expected.
Good tier (90 kW - 112 kW observed):
Poor tier (30-60 kW):
- K
Here are my specific observations. I arrived at the SCs during this trip between 9-20% SOC, with ambient temps between 48-58F. Max charge rates observed only within initial SOC phases as expected.
Good tier (90 kW - 112 kW observed):
- Gustine - no waiting, rates above 100 kW. Careful about that split pea soup ... tastes great, but makes for gassy travel partners (I didn't have any)
- Buttonwillow
- Bakersfield
- Cabazon (the mall doesn't open early, but the Starbucks there does!)
- Rancho Cucamonga - at dinner time on Friday night, there was absolutely no one there. Lots of decent dinner options within walking distance.
Poor tier (30-60 kW):
- Harris Ranch (non-paired) - lots of spots, but low charge rates not exceeding 60 kW make the stinky stop (from the cows!) long and painful
- Tejon Ranch (paired) - about 15 minutes of waiting then greeted by charge rates of 30 kW ... which is quite painful when you roll in at 10% SOC and have a long drive up the grapevine to the next SC at Rancho. I felt bad for the three Teslas waiting behind me as soon as I pulled up. Their wait would have been far longer. Eventually it trickled up to 60 kW at maybe 50% SOC.
- Burbank (paired) - 20 minutes of waiting to be greeted by 30 kW charge rates (eventually trickling up to 60)
- K
cpa
Active Member
Some food for thought, Khasalano:
I have not done the math. However, for me personally driving from Fresno to the Palm Springs area, I generally head east from Bakersfield and charge at Mojave and then head down 395 at Kramer Jct. to reach Interstate 15 to highway 210. This is a longer drive time than heading over the Grapevine and swinging east on Interstate 210 at San Fernando.
However, there is a lot less traffic and the likelihood of a much faster Supercharging time than at Tejon Ranch and Burbank. I would think that you could reach Buttonwillow or Bakersfield SC from Gustine, then head east on 58.
Might we worth five minutes to see if this is reasonable.
I have not done the math. However, for me personally driving from Fresno to the Palm Springs area, I generally head east from Bakersfield and charge at Mojave and then head down 395 at Kramer Jct. to reach Interstate 15 to highway 210. This is a longer drive time than heading over the Grapevine and swinging east on Interstate 210 at San Fernando.
However, there is a lot less traffic and the likelihood of a much faster Supercharging time than at Tejon Ranch and Burbank. I would think that you could reach Buttonwillow or Bakersfield SC from Gustine, then head east on 58.
Might we worth five minutes to see if this is reasonable.
Khatsalano
Member
I actually thought about that route, but due to driving in darkness on the way down on an unfamiliar road and certain food stop considerations on the way out, we didn't do that route. I also was cautious about having to charge to 90%-100 SOC (takes forever) to create buffer due to cold temperatures. At night, the grapevine reached 37F and I would imagine the backway to 210 may be similar. I may try it another time.
I would think a lot of owners pay attention to charge times. If you have a schedule and can't make it because the charge rates are so slow at certain locations, complaints are certainly valid. At some point inconvenience trumps the coolness of driving a tesla.... I hope they figure this out before the 3's are all out there... I know they are working on it, lets hope they solve it. If wait times increase significantly I would reconsider use for long trips in highly populated areas... but I didn't drink the koolaid
Yeah, I already had someone tell me they realized the Tesla wasn't for them. It didn't help that they saw me get out of the car several times to poor water on the connector or switch stalls due to poor performance. The general audience has the expectation that these chargers will work reliably and deliver a similar number of miles for a given amount of time. Unfortunately, my experience has been that you need to babysit the charging process because thermal limiting will kick in and reduce your rate by a factor of 2.
Missile Toad
MSLR Wht/Blk/19 | OD 6/10/21 | RN11512
@apacheguy I asked my service technician at the Houston service center what is the story with colder temp charging. He said that the battery, itself, limits charge coming in below 55ºF... until the battery warms further. He said the battery is happy when temps are higher, even into the 90ºs. So, I'm supposing this limiting you observed occurs on the SuperCharger side of the combined car+charger. Is there a pattern to what you've seen? And can that pattern be isolated from the possibility that you just pulled up to a charger that was 'warmed' by somebody who left 5 minutes ago? I'm looking for a rule-of-thumb. As in, "Charging at temps over 85ºF ambient will force tapering sooner"
I've been watching my pack's data on TMspy and on the cold side, power limitation is turned off after it warms to 64*f. This is also for SpC'ing as well.
As soon as it hits right around that temp... BOOM! the dotted lines disappear (while driving) and the charge rate shoots up (while SpC'ing)
As soon as it hits right around that temp... BOOM! the dotted lines disappear (while driving) and the charge rate shoots up (while SpC'ing)
It has nothing to do with cold temps. In fact it is too much heat (on the connector handle, not the main battery) that has caused the limiting I observe. See a few pages back for my analysis. Here:
Missile Toad
MSLR Wht/Blk/19 | OD 6/10/21 | RN11512
OK, I'm going with a draft rule of thumb,
At ambient temps below 55ºF, an unwarmed battery will limit supercharging.
At ambient temps above 85ºF, the SuperCharger, itself, can limit supercharging, if not shaded, or becomes warmed by someone charging.
I'll revise as more data comes in. I sense, that of the two, the cold battery more severely reduces charge, than corresponding increases in temp of the Supercharger in the 'hot charger' situation. Mostly, I'm looking for a rule that my wife, and newbies to the Tesla driving experience can use. Note, that there is another couple rules that are more impactful to charging: 1) bottom of the battery charging is almost always faster; 2) don't pair with an actively charging car; 3) if its broken, don't use it. FYI, I consider @JasonA-EV 's input with '55ºF' =/= 64ºF. But, I figure, in about 1-4 minutes of charging, a cool battery will become hot enough to overcome the 64ºF limit -- and any drag, during that brief period, will be nearly unnoticeable to a casual Tesla driver.At ambient temps above 85ºF, the SuperCharger, itself, can limit supercharging, if not shaded, or becomes warmed by someone charging.
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Ah, yes, "unwarmed battery" being the key. Generally speaking, after 2 hours of freeway driving, by the time I make it to my first supercharger stop, the battery is already near or above 30 C. This is warm enough that no limiting is observed.
If, however, you decide to park the car at a hotel overnight and temps get below 50 F you will be in for quite a surprise when you make the 3 mile trip to charge the car in the morning. The one time I did this, it took over 25 min to reach a normal rate. I'll never do that again.
If, however, you decide to park the car at a hotel overnight and temps get below 50 F you will be in for quite a surprise when you make the 3 mile trip to charge the car in the morning. The one time I did this, it took over 25 min to reach a normal rate. I'll never do that again.
Missile Toad
MSLR Wht/Blk/19 | OD 6/10/21 | RN11512
Yikes! Good advice, as I'm likely to do something like that in next 2 weeks. Instead, I'm going to charge overnight to 92%, and then ~90 minutes before departure, remotely trigger continued charging on hotel HPWC (double whammy, expecting <50º temps and well into taper).
Sometimes what appears to be a single issue can have multiple explanations. Life is often more complicated than it appears...
I'm not saying that cold temps never play a role. As @Missle Toad has pointed out there are instances where unconditioned packs (i.e. "Cold soaked") will be severely limited in the charge rates they accept.
However, I know that pack temperature was not an issue in the recent slew of troubles I have experienced supercharging and thus I can rule it out.
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