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SolarCity (SCTY)

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We are talking about California's NEM 2.0, right?.....
So NEM 2.0 preserves full retail credit.

NEM 2.0 (intermediate NEM) mostly preserves full retail credit (nonbypassable charges now fully apply, priory it was a net basis)

the big deal as I can see it is that those who get in before the 5% limits are reached get grandfathered for 20 years, those who get in after the 5% limit is reached get pushed onto a TOU, and a reducing full NEM. Details of the TOU seem very much in the still to be explored .
 
After the benefit of a good night's sleep I would like to say that I came off a bit harsh and would like to apologize to all involved. Being down 50% makes one a bit snippy. Everyone is welcome here and all opinions are valid. I do think this thread could benefit from being broken up into sections like the TSLA investors section - short term thread, long term fundamentals, trading strategy, etc. New threads could break out when there is a NV style dust up. It is hard to keep track of who said what at 533 pages. It would also allow us to self filter what we read rather than having to block somebody or read endless arguments that don't interest us.
 
After the benefit of a good night's sleep I would like to say that I came off a bit harsh and would like to apologize to all involved. Being down 50% makes one a bit snippy. Everyone is welcome here and all opinions are valid. I do think this thread could benefit from being broken up into sections like the TSLA investors section - short term thread, long term fundamentals, trading strategy, etc. New threads could break out when there is a NV style dust up. It is hard to keep track of who said what at 533 pages. It would also allow us to self filter what we read rather than having to block somebody or read endless arguments that don't interest us.

Plus one.
 
Since solar power (SolarCity) is central to Tesla's "Master Plan" it makes sense to give it broader coverage. To this point, I would like to see topics on the interrelationship of Tesla and Solarcity, and the Tesla's battery Gigafactory & SolarCity's panel Gigafactory.
 
Since solar power (SolarCity) is central to Tesla's "Master Plan" it makes sense to give it broader coverage. To this point, I would like to see topics on the interrelationship of Tesla and Solarcity, and the Tesla's battery Gigafactory & SolarCity's panel Gigafactory.
You're correct that solar power is central to Tesla's business model but SCTY is not. The moderators have already said that this thread is tenuous in the investors section and suggested that maybe it should be moved to off-topic.
 
You're correct that solar power is central to Tesla's business model but SCTY is not. The moderators have already said that this thread is tenuous in the investors section and suggested that maybe it should be moved to off-topic.

Is it your position that a strategic alliance does not exist between Tesla Motors and SolarCity?

If that is true, I need to rethink my investment strategy.
 
Is it your position that a strategic alliance does not exist between Tesla Motors and SolarCity?

If that is true, I need to rethink my investment strategy.

They definitely have a strategic alliance. From scty helping with the design of the power wall to scty being the first company to install power packs.

Looks like buffet is aware he is betting on the wrong horse.
Warren Buffett: Solar and Wind Could | Greentech Media
 
I want you to know that I appreciate your contributions to this thread. Pls don't go away.

I was wondering how you came up with $0.20/W cost savings. Personally I'm worried that any cost savings will be eaten up by a reduction in profit margins. In their efforts to achieve 1.25GW they will have to offer more competitive pricing and it will be hard to reduce things like cost of sales. Their competitor's costs are likely dropping just as much as SCTY's.

Sure I will stay on as long as this is an intellectually stimulating exercise that this is.

About that $0.2/W savings estimate:

We don't have any guidance from management on that one for 2016. There is only this remark in the shareholder letter "We remain on target for our cost goal of $2.25 per watt in 2017." This certainly includes the expected savings of $0.20/W from the Bufffalo factory panels. We now know there will be no panel production in 2016. So excluding that, the projection is $2.45/w cost in 2017. Purely taking the numerical average of cost/w in four quarters of 2015 we get $2.85/W. So just doing a linear interpolation from 2.85/W in 2015 to 2.45/W in 2017 gives 2.65/W in 2016.

Another way to look at it, the $0.2/W represents 7% cost declines. Last year it was 5% decline. So 7% is no too far reaching.

Competition: This is a loaded topic. SC pitches itself as competing with utilities and is in fact planning on raising the rates in tandem to increase in utility rates. As long as this pitch against utilities works, we can assume cost savings accrue to shareholders. But I don't know how long this will work. It seems like SC identified niche demographics where the house-hold income is very low that they don't have enough taxes to capture tax-credits, but these folks are somehow homeowners and have good credit scores. You have to wonder, if SC is primarily targeting really old, retired people. What happens if people die before contracts expire? Hopefully nothing bad to SC. I don't know the intricacies of it. Nevertheless the size of these niche markets is unknown. So when buying SCTY stock, market wouldn’t want to pay too much for the future growth. There are way too many risks, business model risk, a very dynamic regulatory changing landscape, unknown potential market size.

In any case, my exercise was to assess cash-flow/debt pressures. So in that sense, regardless of profitability, we are just purely concerned with costs because costs go out as cash-flows fully upfront. Is that sustainable is the question. So lower the costs better it is to answer that question.

This is infact the very reason why I cringe when people bring in powerwalls as a positive thing for SC. No, not necessarily. That simply increases the cost, outgoing cashflow, up-front. Which is bad, very bad for this business model.
 
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About that $0.2/W savings estimate:

We don't have any guidance from management on that one for 2016. There is only this remark in the shareholder letter "We remain on target for our cost goal of $2.25 per watt in 2017." This certainly includes the expected savings of $0.20/W from the Bufffalo factory panels. We now know there will be no panel production in 2016. So excluding that, the projection is $2.45/w cost in 2017. Purely taking the numerical average of cost/w in four quarters of 2015 we get $2.85/W. So just doing a linear interpolation from 2.85/W in 2015 to 2.45/W in 2017 gives 2.65/W in 2016.

Buffalo savings(whatever it may be) is not entirely comprised of efficiencies related to self-production. If they were talking "$.20 less cost" once operating out of Buffalo, you'd have to estimate somewhere around $.10 of that would be naturally felt across the entire sector. In essence, just buying panels on the market will be $.10 cheaper vs. whenever that statement was made, especially as SCTY's buying leverage grows. Then you also don't have the expense of ramping up production, etc......

Quality hardware is cheap, getting cheaper and will be cheap as hell when Buffalo opens. It's just not a major concern to the business model anymore. In my SCTY valuation, Buffalo plays purely a marketing role. "American made panels by an American company installed by American employees making a living wage. Blah, blah, blah" It's marketing for the next tier of "middle America" customers.

Sales costs must be chopped by 2/3 in 2-3 years.

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This is infact the very reason why I cringe when people bring in powerwalls as a positive thing for SC. No, not necessarily. That simply increases the cost, outgoing cashflow, up-front. Which is bad, very bad for this business model.

The more SCTY does for it's customers the better. Battery packs are just a weapon against uncontrollable grid costs and will be deployed as necessary. They're only deployed when increased costs allow for the battery to pay for itself with cost savings in a very short period of time.
 
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000497624&play=1

Warren Buffett says: Don't penalize non-solar customers. In other words, invest in my fossil fuel utilities.

I personally believe in a carbon tax.

So is flat out lying or confused? Perhaps he's being a bit misled by NVE execs and that's enough to swing his "official opinion"? He just portrayed a scenario where a solar customer is compensated at 10.5 cents and he'd rather buy at 4.5 cents or "produce it ourselves" for 4.5 cents. It's my understanding that NV Energy peak production that is being displaced by solar production has a wholesale pricetag around 9-14 cents. Is that not the case?
 
sorry if this has been mentioned already here, but when will SC be free cash flow positive ? end of 2016 ?

That's not in the cards. They are talking about being net cash flow positive.

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Well, traders are still putting more oil into storage. Supply and balance have not balanced.

I've been predicting for a while that the storage puts a floor somewhere between $25 and $30. That is, there is an equilibrium price based on storing oil and selling future contracts. So the price of oil can trade around this equilibrium for quite some time. So I don't see oil at $34 as any sort of recovery. Real recovery will not happen as long as oversupply continues to put more oil into storage. And even with that there can be short term fluctuations that signify little.
 
only when the sun is not shining:biggrin:

seriously, NV Energy has a wholesale price for solar at around 4.5 cents/kWh how many MWh do you want?

NVE is a regulated monopoly there to provide services in the public interest and take a small amount of profit for their trouble. If people want rooftop solar, the costs should be levelized and the grid can proceed from there. Costs are not nearly levelized under this proposed plan.
 
NVE is a regulated monopoly there to provide services in the public interest and take a small amount of profit for their trouble. If people want rooftop solar, the costs should be levelized and the grid can proceed from there. Costs are not nearly levelized under this proposed plan.

costs are levelized when rooftop solar is at wholesale price.
just split the electrical grid between power producers, network providers, and retailers
then it becomes obvious what the costs should be,
there is no cost savings for the network provider, so the retailer just buys less from the power producer.
That is to say, rooftop solar is essentially wholesale power.


everybody knows that the value of solar in Nevada is around 4.5 cents/kWh Buffett strikes cheapest electricity price in US with Nevada solar farm: pv-magazine again the question is how much solar do you want?
 
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