I'm referring to the supply equipment, such as what Electrify America, ChargePoint, etc, use. From the various reports from the people testing the CCS adapter, there are certain models of charger that work and some that don't, and at varying degrees of power and success. And I think it works differently with different models of Tesla - but I may be wrong on that.
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Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter
- Thread starter Boeingpilot
- Start date
I'm referring to the supply equipment, such as what Electrify America, ChargePoint, etc, use. From the various reports from the people testing the CCS adapter, there are certain models of charger that work and some that don't, and at varying degrees of power and success. And I think it works differently with different models of Tesla - but I may be wrong on that.
masotime
Member
Ah yeah, sorry I misread your question.
As far as I can tell it's pretty variable which is why there's no authoritative list so far. The firmware version affects whether the adapter works in some cases - for me the BTC Power ones by Electrify America only work on V140 rather than the one on the website (V150). From what I can tell the firmware mainly affects compatibility and not charging speed, unless you're trying the experimental firmwares that can potentially go at higher speeds but which have a danger of bricking your car.
I have been a supporter of Tesla coming out with its own CCS adapter for North America. However, with all of the variability in the CCS infrastructure - as discussed in this thread - I am starting to understand why Tesla is not eager to take up that challenge.
Canada_dude
Member
I'm New here, I'm sure I'm missing something, just trying to understand if I should go out and get the Setec CCS for $460USD.
So if the Setec CCS maxes out at 50kW and the CHAdeMO Adapter also maxes out at 50kW, then why bother trying to get a non-Tesla CCS adapter when the Tesla supported CHAdeMO Adapter gives you the same charging results?
Thx!
masotime
Member
The argument is a bit stronger if you have an S/X as I think it charges a little faster. Otherwise for most non-Tesla DCFC stations, there’s usually only one CHAdeMO port available and several more CCS ports.
For example, this station has 4 CSS and 1 CHAdeMO available. In a more remote location, the same scenario plays out. I’m cherry picking some locations of course, but having CCS as an extra option is handy, and CHAdeMO is getting less support moving forward, and will likely see less maintenance / support moving forward.
Canada_dude
Member
Appreciate the info. I have MY so I guess I'm stuck with the 50kW and being in Canada, I'm limited to the number of charging station choices. Petro-Canada is on the move to add more and they seem to keep a 1:1 ratio of CCS and CHAdeMO. I'm trying to decide if the $530CAD (the price of CHAdeMO adapter at Telsa) is worth it as Petro-Canada and RBC partnered up to give free charges until April 2022. Can I get enough charges to make up spending $530 by April?
hehe.
masotime
Member
Appreciate the info. I have MY so I guess I'm stuck with the 50kW and being in Canada, I'm limited to the number of charging station choices. Petro-Canada is on the move to add more and they seem to keep a 1:1 ratio of CCS and CHAdeMO. I'm trying to decide if the $530CAD (the price of CHAdeMO adapter at Telsa) is worth it as Petro-Canada and RBC partnered up to give free charges until April 2022. Can I get enough charges to make up spending $530 by April?
I think just having the CHAdeMO adapter is good enough for most use cases at the moment as a backup option. Having both CHAdeMO and CCS is a bit of an indulgence, and admittedly the CCS adapter from Setec isn't really 100% reliable at the moment.
Free charging is a nice perk - here in San Francisco there's a Volta charger that has free DCFC (50kW). According to TeslaFi I've charged up to 773.54 kWh for free. During a ski trip to Utah, I found a similar free DCFC station and charged up to 183.42 kWh. Overall for 1MWh of free charging, I think I've done pretty decently in terms of offsetting the cost of the adapter
.No, for your assertion, in the US, so far that's only currently true for VW-owned Electrify America who has been stacking the deck by putting in 1 crippled (usually) 50 kW CHAdeMO and usually 5 to 7 150+ kW CCS. The worst offender I know is 1 CHAdeMO vs. 19 CCS at PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You.
Most other non-Tesla DC FC providers in the US don't pull this kind of crazy garbage (yet) across their network and have a 1:1 ratio or one close to it. Go look at ChargePoint and EVgo sites for instance.
There are also some old Blink DC FC sites that are CHAdeMO only as they went live before the 1st CCS car ever shipped in the US. Some went live likely before the CCS standard was even finalized.
That Volta free DC FC in SF has a very poor Plugshare score: PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You. I know of that mall but it's over 60 miles away so it's not like I go there often. I think I've not been there once since the March 2020 COVID lockdown.
Canada_dude
Member
Good point. I think I do need an alternative for the just in case. I hope that the CHAdeMO doesn't go obsolete so quickly that new stations are built without it but I suspect that it will be a few years before this happens?I think just having the CHAdeMO adapter is good enough for most use cases at the moment as a backup option. Having both CHAdeMO and CCS is a bit of an indulgence, and admittedly the CCS adapter from Setec isn't really 100% reliable at the moment.
Free charging is a nice perk - here in San Francisco there's a Volta charger that has free DCFC (50kW). According to TeslaFi I've charged up to 773.54 kWh for free. During a ski trip to Utah, I found a similar free DCFC station and charged up to 183.42 kWh. Overall for 1MWh of free charging, I think I've done pretty decently in terms of offsetting the cost of the adapter
Yep. Same in BC. Except for Electrify Canada it’s all one to one. And they still sell a tone of leafs here compared to every other brand so Chademo is not going away anytime soon. There are leftover 2019 brand new bolts here yet. Tesla and leaf are the dominant EV’s here. And they are both Chademo compatible.
M3BlueGeorgia
Active Member
You also need to look carefully at Tesla's build-out in Canada and figure out if you really have a problem that need solving
masotime
Member
I think that's fair. VW has an interest in promoting CCS over CHADeMO I think. Overall I've tended to prefer EA's per-kWh charging though - it usually ends up cheaper than most other providers (ChargePoint, EVgo) with per-minute charging because of the low charging speeds.
I still stand by my assertion that CHADeMO is a standard that's not likely to continue to be maintained though.
The low score is just because the station was down recently. It's actually operational now. I'm not sure what you mean by "60 miles away"? It's within the boundaries of San Francisco. I guess you're referring to your own proximity to that station - which is fair, but it doesn't negate the fact that I've found it a useful way to get free, relatively fast DCFC charging.
masotime
Member
Ok this is informative. My perspective has been that because Europe and the US are veering towards CCS that CHADeMO was a dying standard. It does sound like this isn't the case, and CHADeMO has some markets where it will remain dominant. Thanks for sharing this.
Obviously. They were allowed to stack the deck to favor VW AG's business interests (e.g. VW, Porsche, Audi, etc.)
Yes. It is over 60 miles away from me so it's not a place I venture often, esp. given that it's an indoor shopping mall. If I pointed you to a mall 60 miles from home in a city and area that you never venture to w/a DC FC, then it'd be probably about as useful for you....
CHAdeMO seems likely to remain dominant to Japan given that there are 7700 CHAdeMO chargers there per Chademo Association – EV Fast Charging Organisation, in a country about 89% the size of California. The automakers that put CCS on their cars in the US and Europe put CHAdeMO on them for the Japanese market. I've personally seen Mercedes EQC and VW e-Golf there w/CHAdeMO inlets at Tokyo Motor Show. BMW i3 also had CHAdeMO in Japan, not CCS.
masotime
Member
Ok that's fine... but I wasn't recommending that spot in particular. I'm not sure how it's relevant whether or not you recommend a spot to me 60 miles away from where I live?
I was just sharing the free charging sentiment that @Canada_dude was talking about above, not saying it's applicable to everyone in this thread, or even in the Bay Area.
Canada_dude
Member
Thanks guys, for a newbie like myself this has been very informative and gave me some insight into some points of view that I have not considered.
Looking at the trend of the build-up here in Canada it does look like a long way before this standard disappears. At least for now, I have an alternative to MY getting some juice.
Currently, it looks like the CHAdeMO is out of stock at the Tesla store.
p.s. why did my reaction score go -1? Tried to find the answer on the 'site feedback' area but failed. Please PM me if you happen to know so it doesn't hijack this thread
Looking at the trend of the build-up here in Canada it does look like a long way before this standard disappears. At least for now, I have an alternative to MY getting some juice.
Currently, it looks like the CHAdeMO is out of stock at the Tesla store.
p.s. why did my reaction score go -1? Tried to find the answer on the 'site feedback' area but failed. Please PM me if you happen to know so it doesn't hijack this thread
I’m up here in Canada as well, close to Calgary and a good amount of my planned routes don’t have super chargers, so a backup would be nice. With chademo and CCs both being available at all charging sites, I was going to go with chademo, but now it’s sold out on Tesla so I’m leaning towards ccs so I can have it for this summer.
Does the setec adapter come with the v150 or do you have to upload it after purchase ?
Does the setec adapter come with the v150 or do you have to upload it after purchase ?
M3BlueGeorgia
Active Member
Nah, CHADeMO is a dead standard.
The only question is when, if ever, Tesla will allow a CCS adapter to be used in North America.
And maybe the answer to your question is 'When North American CCS providers get their act together and provide some standardization and reliable interoperability in their chargers'.
Calling Chademo dead is silly. Right now if you have a leaf you can go a LOT more places than a Tesla SR could...unless the Tesla owner has a Chademo adapter.
Just sayin.
Just sayin.
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