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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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An update https://www.patreon.com/posts/93367462?pr=true

Mod: I will leave this here for the benefit of people who might be interested, but I have to point out that promoting one's own off-TMC sites is very much against the terms of service. Please don't do this again. And don't post it to multiple threads. --ggr
 
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Thank much for this update and all you've shared, i've been following along this week and trading the momentum and reversal, gobbling up the credits 🦃 :D Following my own intuition, mostly rookie moves, I knee jerked last week and lost a bit, rolling up the sleeves and remaining patient the next few weeks to recover. Enjoy the day off, catch up Friday!
 
Interesting. So, you are earning some $10 in 2024 and $18 in 2025 (or whatever you can get on a roll if not ITM) ?

That might be better than struggling with 20 cents a week for a year ... and likely getting caught up in any SP runs. I'd consider that.
If the SP is below the strike in 2025, then I just do new CC contracts for 2026 and get the premium for those, minus the new Bull call spread.

Edit: But dl003 doesn't like my plan, so maybe it's not ideal....
 
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An update https://www.patreon.com/posts/93367462?pr=true

Mod: I will leave this here for the benefit of people who might be interested, but I have to point out that promoting one's own off-TMC sites is very much against the terms of service. Please don't do this again. And don't post it to multiple threads. --ggr
@ggr I understand the terms of service and Im not trying to promote my site. I'm contributing to multiple communities at once so I need a singular platform to post on. If not, I cant handle posting the same thing 4 or 5 times a day and answer all the questions, since my posts are long and filled with charts.
 
@ggr I understand the terms of service and Im not trying to promote my site. I'm contributing to multiple communities at once so I need a singular platform to post on. If not, I cant handle posting the same thing 4 or 5 times a day and answer all the questions, since my posts are long and filled with charts.
Patreon notifies me when you post (thank you, much appreciated), so maybe your post here can just be something like blog updated?
 
@ggr I understand the terms of service and Im not trying to promote my site. I'm contributing to multiple communities at once so I need a singular platform to post on. If not, I cant handle posting the same thing 4 or 5 times a day and answer all the questions, since my posts are long and filled with charts.
That’s exactly what I was asking myself, where do you find the time to post your TA everywhere every day

Thanks for the info, will close my long Puts when we reach around 224-226. Super usefull
 
Would be interesting to see for cosmic harmony sake if we manage to complete the $224-$226 dip on Friday and get it out of the way, and then leave all next week for CT FOMO to fuel the run to $260 area, where we can escape and batten down before a “sell the news” dump on Friday 12/1. Wouldn’t be the first time it matches up beautifully with real-world catalysts.
 
Seem like a good plan. I added some risk management on the put side (making it a condor) and below is the cost and reward based on last price.

The call side has a .10 delta while the put side has .33 so it's more Put bias. Adding up the delta - chance of it hitting either strike is .44 (44%).

Augment this with the daily charts (adjust the leg as needed) and that can make a great play IMO.

Giving it 2-3 weeks expiration allow leg adjustment and re-centering the profit/loss.

View attachment 993081
225 puts for Dec 15 looks too risky. Could be at 180 by then (if you go by Wicked stocks).
 
If the SP is below the strike in 2025, then I just do new CC contracts for 2026 and get the premium for those, minus the new Bull call spread.

Edit: But dl003 doesn't like my plan, so maybe it's not ideal....
I don't disagree with the what, but with the why.

To me, one of the keys to long term success is risk management. To assess risks, we need to understand what we are getting into. Complexity is the obstacle to clarity and so simplicity should be prioritized.

Like I said, you can either +1 400C & -2 420C for $10.5 net credit or you can do just a single -1 450C for the same $10.5 credit.

First, you need to understand that the comparability in roll-ability between 2 strategies can be roughly estimated by looking at what will happen on the expiration date.

On the exp date, if TSLA ends up less than $400, both strategies will yield the same result. You get to keep your share and pocket $10.5 per share.
If TSLA ends up between 400 and 440, your strategy will come out, up to $20, ahead. TSLA needs to land exactly at 420 for you to get the full $20 advantage.
If TSLA ends up over 440, my strategy will come out ahead by $10.

What this tells me is there's very little difference between the 2 strategies in term of risk : reward. So if I'm saying I don't like your plan, it's like I'm saying I don't like my plan either. Do I think selling 450C exp 1/2025 is a bad idea? No, not even remotely true.

What I take issue with is not the what, but the why. It sounded to me you thought this was a good idea because the $20 spread would keep you safe from a face ripper rally. It won't. I'm not disputing the viability of the plan. I'm simply questioning the reason. Do a thought exercise: would you be willing to sell a single 450 CC for each 100s you own, without the "safety" spread? If that thought disturbs you, you might be having a risk assessment issue.

So what I'm saying is keep it simple. If you can get roughly the same risk : reward with a 1 legged strategy, don't go with a 3 legged alternative if you have not thoroughly assessed the risks. The dangerous thing is not to execute the strategy, but to ignore other more important elements such as levels, trends and timing just because you think your strategy is bulletproof.

Here's the scenario: There might come a day, when TSLA crashes again to, says, 130. Feeling the heat and worried you might be out of income for months on ends, you start looking at a 12 MTE 250 CC and to keep yourself "safe", you say let's pair it with a 220/250 call spread. Despite the chart screaming a bottom is imminent, you execute this plan, thinking "How can I lose? I can always roll." 6 months later, the stock rockets to 350 and now you regret everything.
 
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I don't disagree with the what, but with the why.

To me, one of the keys to long term success is risk management. To assess risks, we need to understand what we are getting into. Complexity is the obstacle to clarity and so simplicity should be prioritized.
In other words (like we've been saying since the start of this thread): if you can't see the risk of a trade, you're not looking hard enough.
 
Like I said, you can either +1 400C & -2 420C for $10.5 net credit or you can do just a single -1 450C for the same $10.5 credit.
….
What I take issue with is not the what, but the why. It sounded to me you thought this was a good idea because the $20 spread would keep you safe from a face ripper rally. It won't.
My understanding is - that’s not the “why”.

Objective is to earn income every year. By selling 200 contracts, @BornToFly can earn 200k per year by getting $10 premium.

A. Only calls sold at 440

- In 2024 ‘25 leaps are sold, for a net of say $240k ($12 premium)
- Come 2025, if SP is at 500, the leaps can be rolled by a year at even
- Zero income in 2025

B. CC at 440 + debit spread

- In 2024 ‘25 leaps are sold+debit spread for a net of say $200k ($10 premium)
- Come 2025, if SP is at 500, the leaps can be rolled by a year at even
- $200k income in 2025 from the debit spread (minus whatever is needed for another debit spread for 2026)
 
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My understanding is - that’s not the “why”.

Objective is to earn income every year. By selling 200 contracts, @BornToFly can earn 200k per year by getting $10 premium.

A. Only calls sold at 440

- In 2024 ‘25 leaps are sold, for a net of say $240k ($12 premium)
- Come 2025, if SP is at 500, the leaps can be rolled by a year at even
- Zero income in 2025

B. CC at 440 + debit spread

- In 2024 ‘25 leaps are sold+debit spread for a net of say $200k ($10 premium)
- Come 2025, if SP is at 500, the leaps can be rolled by a year at even
- $200k income in 2025 from the debit spread (minus whatever is needed for another debit spread for 2026)
Dont compare a single 420 CC to a debit spread + 420 CC since the premiums are not the same. If you are keen on 420 CC + a debit spread for $10, compare it to a 450 CC which gives you the same income. The argument is not over "should you spend $2 to manage your risks" but a) "what risks are you trying to manage?" and b) " for $2 what are your best options to manage the aforementioned risks?" Once you have thoroughly examined these 2 questions, you should come to the conclusion that a 400/420 debit spread is just one of many things you can buy with $2 and it has no magical attributes to help it to excel over some other options, including selling a -450 CC instead of a -420 CC.

A 450 CC is also a 420 CC paired with a 420/450 debit spread, correct? It can also give you "income" under certain conditions, correct? Compared to a 400/420, a 420/450 can give you more "income" although they both cost the same. Yet, you prefer -420 + 400/420 over -420 + 420/450. Why is that? Why not just sell a 450 CC which is a lot more straight forward?

You need to look at your account as a whole, not just the amount of cash you generate. If you allow your shares to be called away at a lower strike in exchange for more "income" in the form of cash, is that really "income"? Thats like me borrowing from my credit cards and calling it income.
 
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Dont compare a single 420 CC to a debit spread + 420 CC since the premiums are not the same. If you are keen on 420 CC + a debit spread for $10, compare it to a 450 CC which gives you the same income.

Said another way, a 450 CC is also a 420 CC paired with a 420/450 debit spread, correct? It can also give you "income" under certain conditions, correct? Compared to a 400/420, a 420/450 can give you more "income" although they both cost the same. Yet, you prefer -420 + 400/420 over -420 + 420/450. Why is that?

You need to look at your account as a whole, not just the amount of cash you generate. If you allow your shares the chance to be called away at a lower strike in exchange for more "income" in the form of cash, is that really "income"?
I don’t think we are coming across. I’ll draw up a table later to show you the difference.

A single $450 CC and 440 CC + debit spread will have different income potential for next year, even though they have the same income this year.
 
I don’t think we are coming across. I’ll draw up a table later to show you the difference.

A single $450 CC and 440 CC + debit spread will have different income potential for next year, even though they have the same income this year.
pls dont do 440. Do 400/420 vs 450 to avoid confusion. Thats what @BornToFly wants to do. I looked them up and they both pay $10.5. I already did the table in my head.
 
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pls dont do 440. Do 400/420 vs 450 to avoid confusion. Thats what @BornToFly wants to do. I looked them up and they both pay $10.5. I already did the table in my head.
Oh yes, 420 strike. Not sure why I switched to 440.

ps :

Assumption : In 2025 if CC is ITM, it will be rolled for zero credit and max strike improvement. 450 CC and 420 CC with 400/420 debit spread net the same premium.

1700764804491.png


So - what are we giving up for guaranteed 2025 income ? With 450 CC, depending on SP, the strike improvement will be better. Ofcourse if SP goes to %600, both 420 CC and 450 CC may not have much of strike improvement. But between 450 and say 500, 450CC will have much better strike improvement than 420 CC.
 
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Oh yes, 420 strike. Not sure why I switched to 440.

ps :

Assumption : In 2025 if CC is ITM, it will be rolled for zero credit and max strike improvement. 450 CC and 420 CC with 400/420 debit spread net the same premium.

View attachment 993274

So - what are we giving up for guaranteed 2025 income ? With 450 CC, depending on SP, the strike improvement will be better. Ofcourse if SP goes to %600, both 420 CC and 450 CC may not have much of strike improvement. But between 450 and say 500, 450CC will have much better strike improvement than 420 CC.
And if the stock goes to 700 and the strike improvement turns out to be abysmal for both, 450CC will still net you $10 per share more than 420CC + $20 spread.
 
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That 4 millions dollars in stock generating $200k a year. Is that the end goal?

Dumb lazy me would just put that it in an ETF like BST and get 5-10% dividend for year.

Good learning reading the comments. Make me a brighter dog every day.

Edit - didnt realize I was talking out my butt again. Tesla stock is not cash for ETF and long term goal is to gain with the SP. ;)