Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Russia/Ukraine conflict

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
The queue on the Polish-UKR border is allegedly almost gone. An ~hour ago(?) it was just two trucks. The rest of the cars where passenger vehicles.

 
I'm a layman at economics, but allegedly:

...] Why would any professional economist take at face value – anything turned out by the Kremlin as reliable is just beyond belief. Where is the common sense here? The dictator of Russia has total control over the release of economic data – and the logic it would somehow be reliable is wrong. This is a man who is an indicted war criminal, responsible for: […]

Look at actual figures that are reliable such as the interest rates and take into consideration the street inflation rates being regularly reported by disaffected russian citizens. The official inflation rate is complete BS, it is nowhere near the real cost of living increases being evidenced by third party and non-government sources.

3/3


twitter.com/Beefeater_Fella/status/1743378225055629719

 
I'm a layman at economics, but allegedly:

...] Why would any professional economist take at face value – anything turned out by the Kremlin as reliable is just beyond belief. Where is the common sense here? The dictator of Russia has total control over the release of economic data – and the logic it would somehow be reliable is wrong. This is a man who is an indicted war criminal, responsible for: […]

Look at actual figures that are reliable such as the interest rates and take into consideration the street inflation rates being regularly reported by disaffected russian citizens. The official inflation rate is complete BS, it is nowhere near the real cost of living increases being evidenced by third party and non-government sources.

3/3


twitter.com/Beefeater_Fella/status/1743378225055629719


Unemployment in Russia probably is low. The conditions would cause a labor shortage: 360K working age males dead, trying to ramp up the economy into a wartime economy, and a population that has been shrinking for 30 years.

A lot of their other economic figures probably are doctored to look better than they are.

I came across this the other day. I've only watched a couple of their videos, but the quality of content appears to be pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/@DecodingGeopoliticsPodcast/videos
 
Ukraine society has become polarized by mobilization. Almost no one is covering this in English speaking social media, but that’s topic # 1 in Ukraine. The implication are huge: Ukrainians will either unify even more or there will be polarization

The idea is to balance off the needs of the army, the economy, and the government budget that has to finance the army. So, in the jargon of the economist, the problem is the allocation of the labor force between the army and the civil economy

There is also an additional objective - provide incentive for people and companies to pay taxes and minimize evasion. So, those who pay taxes are less likely, other things being equal, to be mobilized

The alternative - a lottery draft that gives everyone an equal chance - has also not been received well in the discussion. People say it is too arbitrary.

The third alternative - an increase in salaries in the army so that there are volunteers - is liked by many. It keeps freedom of choice and solves the problem. Its cost however appears to be prohibitive for Ukraine at the moment given that the economy is hurt already.

Root link for first of 12 parts, sourced from Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/live/18hnzysb1elcs

 
Unemployment in Russia probably is low. The conditions would cause a labor shortage: 360K working age males dead, trying to ramp up the economy into a wartime economy, and a population that has been shrinking for 30 years.

A lot of their other economic figures probably are doctored to look better than they are.

I came across this the other day. I've only watched a couple of their videos, but the quality of content appears to be pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/@DecodingGeopoliticsPodcast/videos

A small nitpick. That 360k as I understand it are casualties. Not the same as KIA. Correct me if I'm wrong. The media doesn't seem to understand the difference between casualties and killed in action.
 
  • Like
Reactions: petit_bateau
It's extremely common in warfare to minimize the losses on one's own side and exaggerate the losses of the opposing side. Whether the ~360k Russian casualties are all dead or not, they are out of the fight. Many are also probably too badly injured to rejoin the workforce. The injured may be more of a drag on the Russian economy than those killed.
 
A small nitpick. That 360k as I understand it are casualties. Not the same as KIA. Correct me if I'm wrong. The media doesn't seem to understand the difference between casualties and killed in action.

The Ukrainians are claiming 360K+ KIA.

Casualties of Russia in Ukraine - official data

I believe this number includes Donbas conscript and Wagner casualties. There are a lot of other estimates out there ranging from ridiculously low to around this number. A lot of the western analysts assume KIA to wounded ratios that IMO are unrealistic for the Russian army. Because of this they get much lower KIA numbers.

Western analysts can't get their head around just how primitive Russian field medicine is. They are barely up to WW I standards. The Ukrainians aren't to US standards which is insanely good. For recent US wars the wounded to KIA ratio is around 10:1. The Ukrainians are able to achieve about 5:1, and possibly 7:1 which is better than the US was able to achieve in Vietnam.

I have seen some in depth analysis of how the Russians treat their wounded. Frequently they don't make any attempt to rescue the wounded and let them die on the battlefield. Russian field ambulances have been captured full of ammunition. Their field hospitals are poor, their first aid kits are almost non-existent and what does exist is out of date with deteriorated rubber and moldy bandages. Nobody gets medic training so nobody knows what to do to stabilize anyone who does get hit. Only the lightly wounded who are able to get themselves out or a few who happen to be near medical help when hit (such as in a read area) survive.

The analysis came to the conclusion that out of ever 5 Russians hit, three die, or a ratio of 2:3 wounded to KIA. That makes the overall Russian casualties around 600K with about 360K dead. I read the analysis about 6 months ago when the casualty numbers were much smaller, but those would be the numbers with the current reported death toll reported by the Ukrainians.

The ratio may be skewed even further towards more deaths now with the Russians resorting to meat wave tactics.

The Russian tactics are not only horrific, but they are also stupid. Russia has a declining population for decades. Their workforce is aging out. They are facing a demographic cliff in about 10 years where they will have too many retirees and too few people of working age. Taking 300-500K workers out of the workforce permanently between KIAs and badly wounded will just make the demographic hit worse.

Russia only had about 8 million men between 18 and 40 at the start of this war. These men are needed to work in war industries, keep the civilian economy going, and fight the war. Tying up a lot of them in the military is already bad, but getting a lot of them killed is just compounding the problem.

Paraguay fought a disastrous war in the 1860s. I don't think Russia will get anywhere near as bad as Paraguay, but in that war something like 80% of the male population died (scholars disagree on the exact numbers). But Paraguay has not recovered from that loss 160 years later. And Paraguay's population was growing rapidly at the beginning of the war, not declining like Russia's.
 
Well, perversely there might be some good that comes from Russias rocket attacks. It seems that some Ukrainians need a reminder that they're still in a war for survival. It seems deeply selfish to put that burden on the soldiers already fighting.
Is this satire? I'm not sure any need reminding least of all getting killed for being forgetful.

If Ukraine wanted to survive they would give up on regaining the lost land until a treaty can be sought. Continually failing to regain it is by definition putting their lives in much more danger and threatening the survival of their people.
 
Is this satire? I'm not sure any need reminding least of all getting killed for being forgetful.

If Ukraine wanted to survive they would give up on regaining the lost land until a treaty can be sought. Continually failing to regain it is by definition putting their lives in much more danger and threatening the survival of their people.

No, my opinion is dark but it's not satire.

First off we I see we have a difference of opinion on the notion of making some kind of durable peace with Russia. I'm guessing you think it's possible that they can just break off a piece of Donbass/Luhansk, officially fork over Crimea and declare themselves military neutral and that would be enough to satisfy Russia. The recent history of Russia tells us that they would just use that "peace" to rearm and then bite off another chunk in 5 years. Rinse and repeat. Every concession makes Russia stronger and Ukraine weaker. Eventually Ukraine will be too weak to refuse anything and that's when they end up like Belarus.

So if Ukraine wants to be free then now is the time to fight. And as South Park says, "freedom ain't free". There's a terrible price to be paid in blood which currently falls squarely on the soldiers fighting.

There's sort of an emotional knee jerk reaction to the idea of conscription. It gives people the idea that a lot of the conscripted are going to die, which is true but it ignores the big picture. If a military is understaffed then it's soldiers never get a chance to rotate out of the front lines. Soldiers under those conditions are more likely to get killed making the manpower situation even worse. Or if they survive they may be so shattered by the experience that they're unable to reintegrate into civilian life.

Even bigger picture how does it look to the existing soldiers when potential soldiers say, "no thanks, that looks hard. Freedom is great and all but I think you should have to pay the price while I enjoy its benefits."
 
Is this satire? I'm not sure any need reminding least of all getting killed for being forgetful.

If Ukraine wanted to survive they would give up on regaining the lost land until a treaty can be sought. Continually failing to regain it is by definition putting their lives in much more danger and threatening the survival of their people.
Is this satire?

Ukraine has been decimating Russian forces as effectively as anyone could have ever dreamed; there are more relevant ways to measure progress than hectares of land taken.

In what parallel universes is there an entity Ukraine could make an effective treaty with as long as Russia is intact?
 
Is this satire? I'm not sure any need reminding least of all getting killed for being forgetful.

If Ukraine wanted to survive they would give up on regaining the lost land until a treaty can be sought. Continually failing to regain it is by definition putting their lives in much more danger and threatening the survival of their people.
This assumes two things I do not believe to be true.
First, a treaty would be honored.
Second, rewarding aggression with land would result in no further aggression.

The two are linked of course but I think you see where I am going.
 
The Ukrainians are claiming 360K+ KIA.

Casualties of Russia in Ukraine - official data

I believe this number includes Donbas conscript and Wagner casualties. There are a lot of other estimates out there ranging from ridiculously low to around this number. A lot of the western analysts assume KIA to wounded ratios that IMO are unrealistic for the Russian army. Because of this they get much lower KIA numbers.

Western analysts can't get their head around just how primitive Russian field medicine is. They are barely up to WW I standards. The Ukrainians aren't to US standards which is insanely good. For recent US wars the wounded to KIA ratio is around 10:1. The Ukrainians are able to achieve about 5:1, and possibly 7:1 which is better than the US was able to achieve in Vietnam.

I have seen some in depth analysis of how the Russians treat their wounded. Frequently they don't make any attempt to rescue the wounded and let them die on the battlefield. Russian field ambulances have been captured full of ammunition. Their field hospitals are poor, their first aid kits are almost non-existent and what does exist is out of date with deteriorated rubber and moldy bandages. Nobody gets medic training so nobody knows what to do to stabilize anyone who does get hit. Only the lightly wounded who are able to get themselves out or a few who happen to be near medical help when hit (such as in a read area) survive.

The analysis came to the conclusion that out of ever 5 Russians hit, three die, or a ratio of 2:3 wounded to KIA. That makes the overall Russian casualties around 600K with about 360K dead. I read the analysis about 6 months ago when the casualty numbers were much smaller, but those would be the numbers with the current reported death toll reported by the Ukrainians.

The ratio may be skewed even further towards more deaths now with the Russians resorting to meat wave tactics.

The Russian tactics are not only horrific, but they are also stupid. Russia has a declining population for decades. Their workforce is aging out. They are facing a demographic cliff in about 10 years where they will have too many retirees and too few people of working age. Taking 300-500K workers out of the workforce permanently between KIAs and badly wounded will just make the demographic hit worse.

Russia only had about 8 million men between 18 and 40 at the start of this war. These men are needed to work in war industries, keep the civilian economy going, and fight the war. Tying up a lot of them in the military is already bad, but getting a lot of them killed is just compounding the problem.

Paraguay fought a disastrous war in the 1860s. I don't think Russia will get anywhere near as bad as Paraguay, but in that war something like 80% of the male population died (scholars disagree on the exact numbers). But Paraguay has not recovered from that loss 160 years later. And Paraguay's population was growing rapidly at the beginning of the war, not declining like Russia's.

The Russian losses are massive, though not on the scale of the Russian/Soviet military losses during WW2. I think it's equally important not to overstate the weakness of the Russian military as it's strength. Realism is the best approach, imo. For the domestic consumption within Ukraine, a bit of optimism is probably good for morale.
 
Is this satire? I'm not sure any need reminding least of all getting killed for being forgetful.

If Ukraine wanted to survive they would give up on regaining the lost land until a treaty can be sought. Continually failing to regain it is by definition putting their lives in much more danger and threatening the survival of their people.
Picture this: The entire east coast of the United States including Texas are occupied by some foreign military power. They deport most children to some re-education camps, kill civilians at random, force everybody to speak their language and denounce anything that resembles American values, speaking English might get you killed.
Now you would propose that the United States (or whatever is left of it) negotiate a 'Peace Treaty' with that foreign power to abandon 1/3 of the USA, let those people be slaughtered, enslaved, tortured and annihilated so that the other 2/3 can wait for the foreign invader to conquer them at a later date.
Is that what you are proposing for Ukraine?
Ukraine does not survive without the occupied territory and its people therein.
 
A lot of Russians, like some people elsewhere seem to love totalitarian dictatorships, in this case they just disagree with some of Putin's decisions which have resulted in consequences that affect them personally. Nalvany supposedly dislikes the corruption but has supposedly not had a problem with genocide of Ukraine, or at least a massive invasion of the country. Nationalist populism is a great way to manipulate the masses into supporting things that are detrimental to their own lives unless they can actually feel the pain themselves.

Based on what?

What would you say if the police could come and throw you into jail at any time for saying the 'wrong' thing?... They could probably get your children thrown out of university as well – and/or mobilize them and send them to the meet grinder in occupied Ukraine...

I was living working in Russia back when this song came out, a little over 20 years ago. The name of the song, if translated, would be "someone like Putin." See below for links. Obviously pure propaganda as far as I was concerned but damned if it didn't become a hit and top the Russian music charts in 2002. It probably didn't hurt that there were two extremely attractive women singing but considering the number of extremely attractive women in Russia, it wasn't really out of the ordinary.

What I saw over the 40+ years from the first time I was in Russia until the last time, it never ceased to amaze me how many people do actually support a strong man type leader. Most of them wouldn't know what to do with democracy if they had the option tomorrow. They know he's a bastard but he is their bastard and the world fears/respects him. You've probably seen the photos of Putin riding a bear. They would post photos of Putin and Obama in his typical mom jeans. Basically portraying Putin as a real man and Obama as a pussy.

I've traveled to probably over 90 countries in the world. I almost always had a backpack with me. I had velcro where I could swap put patches. I had a Russian flag and an American one. I quickly learned that if I had the Russian one, almost nobody messed with me. Not the ideal one to have on my backpack in Europe as some definite Russian animosity but nobody messed with me. The US one didn't engender as much negative emotion but I heard a lot more negative comments than the Russian one. Anywhere in the Middle East, Africa, a lot of Asia, the Russian flag was much better to be displayed on my backpack than a US one.

A lot of that I believe goes back to the strong man persona that most Russian leaders portray. Don't F with Russia or Russians. Granted, there are some places where there is not a lot of love for Russians, but even if they weren't liked, rarely were they hassled.

Takovo kak Putin

 
NOTE:
I've not watched the entire vid. I does allegedly show some 'scenes' with blood. There is also allegedly some 'scenes' with dead civilians with blurred faces.


Archive, 2022. Kyiv region. CCTV cameras record war crimes of Russian fascists and terrorists against the civilian population. How they fired at civilian vehicles and killed civilians.And these shots are one of thousands of examples.

Show this video to those who support Russia or justify the actions of Russian terrorists in Ukraine.If you support the aggressor, terror, war crimes, the murder of innocent people and children, you become an accomplice to this, and are no better than those who commit these crimes.

Not all Nazis wear swastikas and symbols of Nazism/fascism and recognize themselves as Nazis. Words and deeds are sometimes more eloquent than all symbols. When these non-humans kill civilians, bomb civilian targets and commit genocide. They invade an independent state in order to occupy it and destroy its population. What is this if not fascism and Nazism? And the Nazis here are not only those who commit all these crimes(Russia) , but also all those who support or justify them. For me, these people are pure Nazis and fascists. Even if they don't use Nazi symbols and gestures.


twitter.com/Igor_from_Kyiv_/status/1743697391763464318?s=20

 
Last edited: