Rocket Lab Neutron rocket

[HVM]

Hah bit of $hit talk targeted to the SpaceX, and at stainless steel use , fairing recovery and staged combustion...



8,000 KILOGRAMS TO LEO
1,500 KILOGRAMS TO MARS/VENUS
REUSABLE

OVERVIEW
HEIGHT 40 m / 131 ft
DIAMETER 7m
INTERNAL FAIRING DIAMETER 7m
PAYLOAD TO LEO 8,000 kg
MAX PAYLOAD TO LEO 15,000 kg
LIFT OFF MASS 480,000 kg
PROPELLANT LOX / Methane

Designed for mega constellation deployment, deep space missions, and human spaceflight
Efficient reusability - return to launch site
Captive fairing design allows for fully reusable first stage
and fairing
Lightweight specially formulated Rocket Lab carbon composite structure

PERFORMANCE
Neutron will feature the new Archimedes Engine

FIRST STAGE
7 Archimedes Engines
Lox/Methane G/G Cycle
Total Lift-off Thrust: 5,960 kN (1,300,000 lbf)
Total Peak Thrust: 7,530 kN (1,640,000 lbf)

SECOND STAGE
Single Vacuum Archimedes Engine
Lox/Methane G/G Cycle
Vacuum Thrust: 1,110 kN (250,000 lbf)

Neutron | Rocket Lab

www.rocketlabusa.com

 

[HVM]

 

[Electroman]

I like the idea of a fairing that is attached to the first stage and encapsulates the 2nd stage and the payload fully. The downside is, the fairing has to be much larger and heavier. And that will eat into your payload weight. But I like the clean design.

 

[808?]

 

[HVM]

I like the idea of a fairing that is attached to the first stage and encapsulates the 2nd stage and the payload fully. The downside is, the fairing has to be much larger and heavier. And that will eat into your payload weight. But I like the clean design.

Does the clean room need to be fairing sized or rocket sized at volcano lair?

 

[bxr140]

The downside is, the fairing has to be much larger and heavier.

Sort of. Neutron's fairing is generally going to be the same mass as an equivalent sized traditional fairing (Neutron fairing is pretty short, so absolute fairing mass will be lighter that other 5m fairings regardless). There may be a bit more mass associated with the mechanisms require to release and retract the petals, but I wouldn't expect that to be a huge ∆ over the mass required to restrain and release a traditional fairing. And then of course its probably a net positive when you factor the second stage mass savings anyway.

And that will eat into your payload weight.

Yes, sort of, because they (near as I understand) will be caring the mass of the fairing farther than an equivalent traditional fairing, which is jettisoned based on atmospheric density and almost always (if not always?) before the main stage burns out.

RL has done the trade and feel that the lifecycle of the launcher benefits from retaining the fairings rather than focusing on maximized payload capacity. RTLS and "lumbering small block" engine philosophy and fixed landing legs were pretty well explained, and another big one is the use of mee-thane instead of kerosene (like Merlin), which makes the engines way easier to clean during the refurbishment cycle.

 

[Grendal]

The rocket equation in action. It all has a balance. R-Lab is trying to achieve the same thing as Falcon 9 but doing it in a slightly different way. They have learned a lot and have succeeded better than most but they definitely have a long way to go and many more lessons to learn. Maybe about Starship level around a year ago. They've got a much easier problem to solve than Super Heavy and Starship though. Rocket Lab is my second favorite launch company to cheer on. So I wish them the best of luck.

 

[nativewolf]

Does the clean room need to be fairing sized or rocket sized at volcano lair?View attachment 739927

Volcano sized of course....surprised you have to ask after watching the historical documentaries

 

[Cosmacelf]

So I’m a bit annoyed at both Relativity and Scott Manley for dissing stainless steel. Manley even gets the reason for stainless steel wrong, he said it was for fast iteration. The real reason SpaceX is using steel is that Starship is fully reusable, unlike Neutron. That means, unlike Neutron, Starship re-enters the atmosphere at 25,000 kph. Steel allows a far smaller heat shield to be used, and doesn't even need it on the leeward side of Starship. Anyways, just wanted to get that off my chest.

I do like Neutron, for a Falcon 9 competitor, only ten years behind the times. Just like all the Tesla Model S competitors…

 

[scaesare]

So I’m a bit annoyed at both Relativity and Scott Manley for dissing stainless steel. Manley even gets the reason for stainless steel wrong, he said it was for fast iteration. The real reason SpaceX is using steel is that Starship is fully reusable, unlike Neutron. That means, unlike Neutron, Starship re-enters the atmosphere at 25,000 kph. Steel allows a far smaller heat shield to be used, and doesn't even need it on the leeward side of Starship. Anyways, just wanted to get that off my chest.

I do like Neutron, for a Falcon 9 competitor, only ten years behind the times. Just like all the Tesla Model S competitors…

Agreed.

It also doesn't have issues performing as a tank for cryo liquids like carbon fiber does.

The recent Q&A Elon did went in to a lot of detail on selecting SS...

 

[Electroman]

Agreed.

It also doesn't have issues performing as a tank for cryo liquids like carbon fiber does.

The recent Q&A Elon did went in to a lot of detail on selecting SS...

It is a theory until proven in the field. We will know when the first orbital launch data comes back.

 

[scaesare]

It is a theory until proven in the field. We will know when the first orbital launch data comes back.

Well, it doesn't necessarily take a launch to understand that a woven material does have issues that solid material won't... not to say a orbital test won't reveal other issues...

Also Elon mentioned ease of welding for SS...

 

[Electroman]

If it is such a nobrainer why has this been not tried yet by any other space agencies?

 

[Cosmacelf]

If it is such a nobrainer why has this been not tried yet by any other space agencies?

Because no one else has tried to make a fully reusable rocket. It only makes sense if that’s your design goal.

 

[Grendal]

If it is such a nobrainer why has this been not tried yet by any other space agencies?

Actually, it has been used a lot in the past. The original Atlas was a stainless steel rocket.

 

[Electroman]

Makes sense. Although it would have been a great candidate for shuttle.. I think.

Because no one else has tried to make a fully reusable rocket. It only makes sense if that’s your design goal.

 

[bxr140]

If it is such a nobrainer why has this been not tried yet by any other space agencies?

It really depends on which way one wants to swing the trade--while not quite so binary, SpaceX historically hasn't had properly pointy-end composites capability and DOES have leading metalworking capability, so their natural conclusion would have resulted in composites being more difficult and expensive to develop and produce than, say, an equivalent study from someone like Rocket Lab. Of course the Starship mission also benefits from SS for other reasons, so definitely don't read the above statement as a simple "SpaceX wasn't smart enough to do composites". Either way the reason SS isn't widely used in space is that, in general, the space industry has not found that SS is an ideal material for most use cases, based on the trade parameters setting the rails on those use cases.

FWIW the heat/reentry bit of SS is a bit of an overstatement. Shuttle was doing 40+ years ago with aluminum skin what Starship is going to do on Elon time...

Anyway, steering back on topic, if SpaceX didn't have the bigger aspirations of Starlink and Mars and instead were working on a white page replacement for the 'old tech' F9, it would basically be Neutron. Or a bit of a mash up with Terran-R.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Makes sense. Although it would have been a great candidate for shuttle.. I think.

Maybe. Don't forget that the Shuttle wasn’t even close to fully reusable.

 

[dazedNconfuzed]

Seems there's a leaning toward exotic modern technology, overlooking old/mundane solutions.
A bunch of heavy construction workers welding up stainless steel in tents on a beach is just insane in the context of high-tech clean-room costly space travel ... right? Just isn't gonna be good for one's career when presenting the idea to a treasury-controlling panel of bureaucrats.
...but if you're a crazy-rich neuro-atypical genius noted for deep foundational knowledge and creative solutions, you might just hire a bunch of heavy construction workers to weld up stainless steel in tents on a beach, and make it work.

 

[bxr140]

Seems there's a leaning toward exotic modern technology, overlooking old/mundane solutions.

And when SpaceX goes for exotic and modern over old/mundane, its revolutionary and industry leading and leaving everyone in the past, right?