Roadster on destination charging doesn't work outside of North America

[dpeilow]

1) The new 3-phase wall connectors used everywhere but NA and Japan do not work with Roadsters, but a fix is eventually planned.

This info isn't true. They can be configured to or not. People have found different behaviour between multiple units at the same site and Tesla assures me that the units they sell for home use with no restrictions are the same hardware.

Having said that I'm now curious to return to a problem site and leave the car connected longer to see what happens.

 

[bonnie]

This info isn't true. They can be configured to or not. People have found different behaviour between multiple units at the same site and Tesla assures me that the units they sell for home use with no restrictions are the same hardware.

Having said that I'm now curious to return to a problem site and leave the car connected longer to see what happens.

I should have been more clear - the home use connectors should have no issues with Roadsters.

 

[markwj]

This info isn't true. They can be configured to or not. People have found different behaviour between multiple units at the same site and Tesla assures me that the units they sell for home use with no restrictions are the same hardware.

I've always suspected this:

1 The DIP Switch Position 2 setting is configured at the factory in the UP position. Before changing Position 2 to the DOWN position, contact Tesla.

I've asked, but never received a substantive reply of what that switch actual does. I think we can call it the 'roadster compatibility switch'.

 

[dpeilow]

I should have been more clear - the home use connectors should have no issues with Roadsters.

I should also have been more clear.

Tesla tells me that the non-NA (Type 2 plug) destination chargers and home use chargers are the same hardware with a dip switch to choose between Tesla (S/X) only or standards-compatible (what Tesla nicely calls legacy above) operation.

Drivers of other EVs have found that some sites have mix configurations. Typically if there are 3 or more destination chargers at a location, then 2 are configured for S/X only and 3+ are set to all cars.

 

[hcsharp]

I should also have been more clear.

Tesla tells me that the non-NA (Type 2 plug) destination chargers and home use chargers are the same hardware with a dip switch to choose between Tesla (S/X) only or standards-compatible (what Tesla nicely calls legacy above) operation.

The DIP switch does not change Roadster compatibility. Please don't refer to it as the "Roadster compatibility switch." The Roadster is compatible with both positions, but one of them requires the 'fault and re-start' sequence. Tesla uses a different method to configure for Tesla-only. Currently Tesla-only excludes Roadsters but that is temporary. As Bonnie and I have both stated a fix is coming.

Drivers of other EVs have found that some sites have mix configurations. Typically if there are 3 or more destination chargers at a location, then 2 are configured for S/X only and 3+ are set to all cars.

This is correct. It's also true in North America and Japan. Remember to be patient and wait for the fault and re-start sequence.

 

[markwj]

The DIP switch does not change Roadster compatibility. Please don't refer to it as the "Roadster compatibility switch." The Roadster is compatible with both positions, but one of them requires the 'fault and re-start' sequence.

To be clear, I'm talking about the European style 3 phase 32A wall connector. Does 'fault and re-start' work on that? I thought not.

 

[hcsharp]

To be clear, I'm talking about the European style 3 phase 32A wall connector. Does 'fault and re-start' work on that? I thought not.

Yes that applies to the EU charger. I don't think the NA version has that switch.

 

[dpeilow]

Please don't refer to it as the "Roadster compatibility switch."

I'm not aware that I did.

The Roadster is compatible with both positions, but one of them requires the 'fault and re-start' sequence.

OK - maybe I wasn't patient enough but I didn't see that happen. If waiting works for a Roadster then it should work for any other car.

Currently Tesla-only excludes Roadsters but that is temporary.

Now I'm confused.

I don't see the benefit of having a Tesla only lock out if you just have to wait for the charger to time out and then retry with the standards-compliant pilot signal.

 

[hcsharp]

The latest news is that all North American Destination chargers should work with Roadsters at this time (Bonnie was right)! It's important to be patient and give it at least a minute to fault and re-start before unplugging and trying again. If you find a location that doesn't work, email [email protected]. The EU Destination status is still the same - a solution is eventually coming.

 

[hcsharp]

I'm not aware that I did.

You didn't. Sorry. It was in reference to a different post.

OK - maybe I wasn't patient enough but I didn't see that happen. If waiting works for a Roadster then it should work for any other car.

It won't work at most EU Destinations. Keep in mind that if they installed more than 2, or the host paid for any of them, then #3 and the customer-paid units should work with the fault and re-start sequence.This situation is temporary until a solution is deployed (although the sequence is likely to stay).

 

[Curt]

The latest news is that all North American Destination chargers should work with Roadsters at this time (Bonnie was right)!

This is excellent news, and just in time for my next long-ish road trip.

Thanks, Henry!

 

[dpeilow]

We booked into a hotel for the holiday weekend and unknown to me when I booked two days ago (it wasn't even on Plugshare at that point) turns out they have Tesla destination charging.

However, I was planning on bringing the Roadster but after a week of gorgeous weather, in typical British fashion when we left the house at 5 am this morning we stepped out into the middle of a thunderstorm. The rest of the weekend was not forecast to be great either so at the last minute I switched to the Ampera.

Anyhow we got here to find 3 destination chargers: Two with red signs saying Tesla charging and one with a white sign saying Electric Vehicle charging.

Now obviously these are Type 2 (Mennekes) plugs but the Ampera is Type 1 (J1772). Nevertheless I did my T2 to T2 trick on the white one (which does normally work). The car sees the pilot signal but doesn't like it.

So either there is still a problem or this white one has the wrong setting. I waited a few minutes but the charger did not reset.

After trying to connect here, the car puts on the "check engine" light, which is typical for a faulty charging station. I have seen this before both on dodgy public stations and when the one in my garage went wrong. This again confirms it is seeing a pilot signal but it is not standard.

The installation is so new that the owner (who has a 90D) may not have had any other customers plug in. It would be interesting to know if the switch is in the wrong position.

 

[hcsharp]

So either there is still a problem or this white one has the wrong setting. I waited a few minutes but the charger did not reset.

I don't think you can assume all cars will behave the same on that one. A Roadster may work differently than a Volt/Ampera. Which end trips the fault first? The charger or the car?

 

[dpeilow]

I don't think you can assume all cars will behave the same on that one. A Roadster may work differently than a Volt/Ampera. Which end trips the fault first? The charger or the car?

All cars SHOULD behave the same on the white one because the signalling protocol is exactly the same regardless of plug. Either the "legacy" mode is standards compliant or it isn't.

I'm not sure which trips first, the Ampera just stays in pilot signal acquisition mode (orange light on the dash) and then puts the Cannot Charge message on the screen. The EVSE just looks the same as ever.

The owner told me that Tesla insisted is electrician send them pictures of the switch configurations. I suspect this was to check no one else could freeload on the red ones rather than check the white one was set up correctly.

 

[markwj]

What does the legacy switch actually do? Anybody got the technical differences on what it does to signalling? Are we correct in that it allows the EVSE to be used by non-Tesla vehicles?

P.S. I'm talking about the European 3phase 32A Tesla Wall Connector here.

 

[dpeilow]

I have now added pictures to my story above. I would have added these at the weekend but the image files were too large for the server.

Here you can clearly see that two of the units are marked with a red sign for "Tesla Vehicles" while the third has a white sign for "Electric Vehicles".

I have been told by Tesla that there is just one hardware type used for destination charging and what they sell for domestic home charging, and that the domestic ones can be used with any brand of car with the switch in the "legacy" position.

Furthermore the hotel owner clearly expected the third one to be available for any of his customers.


By the way I totally object to Tesla using the term legacy in this instance. If there was a clear improvement to using their protocol over the so-called "legacy" standard then fair enough, but there isn't. It offers no additional functionality other than to block everyone else.

 

[TonyWilliams]

We have been testing methods to defeat this Tesla "feature", and I think we have a few possible solutions. The problem with advertising the solution is that Tesla can just as easily offer another defeat method.

 

[miimura]

@dpeilow , does your Type-2 to Type-1 cable work with other tethered charge points? The reason that I ask is that I was under the impression that this kind of extension usage is not supposed to work and the standard Type-2 to Type-1 cables are only supposed to work with socketed Type-2 stations.

 

[dpeilow]

dpeilow , does your Type-2 to Type-1 cable work with other tethered charge points?

Yes it does

Nevertheless I did my T2 to T2 trick on the white one (which does normally work).

 

[hcsharp]

What does the legacy switch actually do? Anybody got the technical differences on what it does to signalling? Are we correct in that it allows the EVSE to be used by non-Tesla vehicles?

I believe it has to do with power sharing. The part that was most important to me was that BOTH modes, legacy and non-legacy are compatible with a Roadster on the chargers with white signs "Electric Vehicles."

By the way I totally object to Tesla using the term legacy in this instance. If there was a clear improvement to using their protocol over the so-called "legacy" standard then fair enough, but there isn't. It offers no additional functionality other than to block everyone else.

I doubt they were trying to lock out your Ampera. I suspect there's a quirk in the Volt/Ampera's charging system that doesn't like the power-sharing comms that most other cars will tolerate. The J1772 standard, for what it's worth, allows for a brief period of serial comms before delivering a standard pilot signal.