Regret purchasing FSD after the Ver 12 "upgrade" being crammed down my throat

[acm319]

Correct. And as I said in an earlier post that you CAN switch from FSD to TACC while driving. To switch from TACC to FSD you must bring the car to a complete stop though.

Ya...I'm aware of this. But also switching to another profile doesn't solve the problem I mentioned. The flow of traffic in my area is 65mph...the posted speed is 55mph. Using lane keep + TACC restricts speed to only 5mph over the posted speed limit on undivided roads. So doesn't solve my problem. 3 months ago it was fine in FSD (which is why I purchased...or rather transferred my FSD purchase)...now it is not.

Not to be too snarky...but I spent >60K on what some claim is a "luxury vehicle." I'm not really interested in "hacking the system" by changing how I have to use my vehicle (setup multiple profiles) whenever they decide to randomly change how the product works. I loved my model 3 for the 5 years I had it...I'm not so in love with my Model Y. The EV space has expanded greatly in the past year. At this time...it makes absolutely no sense to have this religious sort of obsession with a single car brand. If I can get what I want from Kia, Mercedes, Hyundai or whoever else cares about the consumer experience...I'll gladly direct my next purchase there.

I'm not telling anyone they are wrong for "loving Tesla" but I make my purchase decisions based on the objective criteria I find most useful. Some consumers love feeling like "Beta testers" and getting cutting edge updates. Others just want to drive to work in a reliable way with the feature set they find most useful. If V12 is good for you...I'm happy for you...I dislike it and will probably be moving on from Tesla in a year. To each their own...this is why the market is a beautiful thing!

 

[Dewg]

Ya...I'm aware of this. But also switching to another profile doesn't solve the problem I mentioned. The flow of traffic in my area is 65mph...the posted speed is 55mph. Using lane keep + TACC restricts speed to only 5mph over the posted speed limit on undivided roads. So doesn't solve my problem. 3 months ago it was fine in FSD (which is why I purchased...or rather transferred my FSD purchase)...now it is not.

Not to be too snarky...but I spent >60K on what some claim is a "luxury vehicle." I'm not really interested in "hacking the system" by changing how I have to use my vehicle (setup multiple profiles) whenever they decide to randomly change how the product works. I loved my model 3 for the 5 years I had it...I'm not so in love with my Model Y. The EV space has expanded greatly in the past year. At this time...it makes absolutely no sense to have this religious sort of obsession with a single car brand. If I can get what I want from Kia, Mercedes, Hyundai or whoever else cares about the consumer experience...I'll gladly direct my next purchase there.

I'm not telling anyone they are wrong for "loving Tesla" but I make my purchase decisions based on the objective criteria I find most useful. Some consumers love feeling like "Beta testers" and getting cutting edge updates. Others just want to drive to work in a reliable way with the feature set they find most useful. If V12 is good for you...I'm happy for you...I dislike it and will probably be moving on from Tesla in a year. To each their own...this is why the market is a beautiful thing!

v12 has been out for what - a few weeks? Give em time to adjust/tweek the system. For now, at least in my area, v12.3.4 handles speed just fine. If the flow of traffic around me is 65, then my car does 65. If there is no/light traffic around me, then the car will do 55 (the speed limit). You can always use the accelerator to force the car to go faster.

 

[acm319]

v12 has been out for what - a few weeks? Give em time to adjust/tweek the system. For now, at least in my area, v12.3.4 handles speed just fine. If the flow of traffic around me is 65, then my car does 65. If there is no/light traffic around me, then the car will do 55 (the speed limit). You can always use the accelerator to force the car to go faster.

These forums can be maddening...I literally said in 2 posts the following:

"My plan is to wait another year or so, and if they can't/don't fix it in this time I plan to trade the Model Y for another brand EV"

"I dislike it and will probably be moving on from Tesla in a year"

I'm not selling my car today...I hope they fix the speed issue. If not, then I'm moving on. Seriously dude...take a breath...it is ok that not everyone on the planet loves everything about V12 so far. Is this a product or a cult?

 

[Dewg]

These forums can be maddening...I literally said in 2 posts the following:

"My plan is to wait another year or so, and if they can't/don't fix it in this time I plan to trade the Model Y for another brand EV"

"I dislike it and will probably be moving on from Tesla in a year"

I'm not selling my car today...I hope they fix the speed issue. If not, then I'm moving on. Seriously dude...take a breath...it is ok that not everyone on the planet loves everything about V12 so far. Is this a product or a cult?

Oh I'm so sorry. Please don't be mad at me, I didn't mean to upset you. I meant no offense and now I'm having to take a breath.

 

[arbitrage000]

Hopefully Tesla will bring back the ability to do go back and forth between TACC and FSD or AS and FSD as many times as one wants to on a drive without putting the car in park to get back to FSD. They still have the single pull/double pull option available to go back and forth between TACC and AS. I'm not sure why Tesla removed the single pull/double pull option when FSD is selected.

 

[Dewg]

Hopefully Tesla will bring back the ability to do go back and forth between TACC and FSD or AS and FSD as many times as one wants to on a drive without putting the car in park to get back to FSD. They still have the single pull/double pull option available to go back and forth between TACC and AS. I'm not sure why Tesla removed the single pull/double pull option when FSD is selected.

The prevailing theory is that there was confusion when people took over steering, accidentally, and thought the car was still steering. People complain to Tesla and/or regulatory bodies like NHTSA. The legacy systems like AP and TACC may very likely get the same treatment if there are safety issues because of the fallback.

 

[MP3Mike]

The prevailing theory is that there was confusion when people took over steering, accidentally, and thought the car was still steering.

I think it was more an issue of they thought they took total control when they started steering, only to find out TACC was still engaged when it started speeding up when they didn't want it to. (Like during a turn.)

 

[MP3Mike]

Ya...I'm aware of this. But also switching to another profile doesn't solve the problem I mentioned. The flow of traffic in my area is 65mph...the posted speed is 55mph. Using lane keep + TACC restricts speed to only 5mph over the posted speed limit on undivided roads. So doesn't solve my problem. 3 months ago it was fine in FSD (which is why I purchased...or rather transferred my FSD purchase)...now it is not.

I missed that the reason you want FSD is for the ability to go further over the speed limit. Would you be happy if they allowed TACC to go 10 MPH over the speed limit? But really I think they will resolve your problem by fixing the FSDS V12.x speed control issues, though 12.3.4 is pretty good for me.

 

[arbitrage000]

I guess Tesla could meet in the middle and allow one to switch via the menu from TACC/AS back to FSD but just not allow it on the stalks. Just like you can switch from FSD down to AS or TACC currently but only via the menu.

I will admit that I was caught off guard a couple times when I switched off AS and forgot that it defaulted down to TACC and kept accelerating. When Tesla brought out the option to enable a single pull only for AS I started using that as I rarely/never use TACC anyways. I never had FSD until the trial.

With FSD I would like the option to be able to go back and forth between AS and FSD. If that is only via the menu then I'd be okay with that as I don't do it too often but have been annoyed when I've had to throw the car into Park at a traffic light to get back to FSD after using AS.

 

[Dewg]

I guess Tesla could meet in the middle and allow one to switch via the menu from TACC/AS back to FSD but just not allow it on the stalks. Just like you can switch from FSD down to AS or TACC currently but only via the menu.

I will admit that I was caught off guard a couple times when I switched off AS and forgot that it defaulted down to TACC and kept accelerating. When Tesla brought out the option to enable a single pull only for AS I started using that as I rarely/never use TACC anyways. I never had FSD until the trial.

With FSD I would like the option to be able to go back and forth between AS and FSD. If that is only via the menu then I'd be okay with that as I don't do it too often but have been annoyed when I've had to throw the car into Park at a traffic light to get back to FSD after using AS.

The problem is that the more complicated you make a system, the more chances safety issues increase. Like you said, many people enjoy the new single-pull, because it's less complicated. Having three different modes available with a button or stalk pull, with each having fallbacks to lower modes, can create confusion and safety issues. Not for everyone, mind you, but for the lowest common denominator - the idiot driver.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I guess Tesla could meet in the middle and allow one to switch via the menu from TACC/AS back to FSD but just not allow it on the stalks. Just like you can switch from FSD down to AS or TACC currently but only via the menu.

I will admit that I was caught off guard a couple times when I switched off AS and forgot that it defaulted down to TACC and kept accelerating. When Tesla brought out the option to enable a single pull only for AS I started using that as I rarely/never use TACC anyways. I never had FSD until the trial.

With FSD I would like the option to be able to go back and forth between AS and FSD. If that is only via the menu then I'd be okay with that as I don't do it too often but have been annoyed when I've had to throw the car into Park at a traffic light to get back to FSD after using AS.

My understanding is this can already be done with a profile swap. Or are you saying is it not possible without going to park?

 

[Lanzer]

I've now gone back to driving my ICE truck to and from work, (which used to be used exclusively for towing and picking up lumber for house projects). I just find if I take my model Y, I get to work very angry and frustrated. My truck has better adaptive cruise control, basic lane keep, USS parking sensors, 360 view cameras, better auto wipers and headlights...and I just find the drive far less frustrating than having to constantly babysit cruise control. My hope is that Tesla gets enough complaints about poor speed control that they add TACC back in or fix the annoying system that can't maintain speed. My plan is to wait another year or so, and if they can't/don't fix it in this time I plan to trade the Model Y for another brand EV (in fact, I've started budgeting for this scenario as I think it's most likely with Musk at the helm).

Curious, wouldn't having disabled FSD give you similar driving experience as your ICE car?

 

[fongmily]

It also feels like v12 FSD doesn't drive as nicely as v11.... my guess is the AI model needs to learn which is why elon gave out a trial with it. I just wish the paid users can use v11 or v12 depending on what they are feeling while the v12 free trial users get a free tool while contributing to their model and curbing their wheels.

 

[arbitrage000]

My understanding is this can already be done with a profile swap. Or are you saying is it not possible without going to park?

No you are correct. It can be done with a duplicate profile. Just that can be somewhat annoying as music switches to something else, temp might switch etc. But it is a workaround for now.

 

[Dewg]

No you are correct. It can be done with a duplicate profile. Just that can be somewhat annoying as music switches to something else, temp might switch etc. But it is a workaround for now.

If it's any consolation to you, Mercedes cars do the exact same thing as FSD v12 with regards to disengagement. When in L3 mode in a Mercedes (the newest hands off, eyes off system), when you disengage the system, or it asks you to take over, it ends the system completely - it does not drop down into a lower form of ADAS (such as L2 or L1 (Cruise Control)). The driver can then engage the lower form. Where the two procedures differ is that Mercedes offers the driver the ability to engage L2 after an L3 disengagement without changing profiles. Tesla does not offer the ability to engage a lower ADAS after FSD is disengaged. Perhaps we'll see that ability added at a later time.

 

[VT_EE]

I completely agree with the OPs position. This has been exactly my experience (I posted a virtually identical experience in another thread). I went from really enjoying v11 where I could pick and choose the features I like, to simply despising V12. My use case is that I travel on a 55 MPH 30 mile stretch to and from work where the traffic all moves at basically 65mph. I used v11 for the ability to set the speed at 65, and utilized stop light control traveling through the couple of small towns I pass through. Now the car constantly wants to change speed for no reason and I find that I am very sensitive to even minor speed changes...which has become maddening.

I've now gone back to driving my ICE truck to and from work, (which used to be used exclusively for towing and picking up lumber for house projects). I just find if I take my model Y, I get to work very angry and frustrated. My truck has better adaptive cruise control, basic lane keep, USS parking sensors, 360 view cameras, better auto wipers and headlights...and I just find the drive far less frustrating than having to constantly babysit cruise control. My hope is that Tesla gets enough complaints about poor speed control that they add TACC back in or fix the annoying system that can't maintain speed. My plan is to wait another year or so, and if they can't/don't fix it in this time I plan to trade the Model Y for another brand EV (in fact, I've started budgeting for this scenario as I think it's most likely with Musk at the helm).

I think Tesla is going through the transition from a niche car company composed of early adopters who derived a ton of utility from the "beta tester experience" to a mainstream auto company where the typical user just wants "things to be stable and work consistently." There is a reason that mainstream car companies focus heavily on delivering a "finished product" versus "we will fix this in a software update." The vast majority of consumers aren't tech obsessed and just want a stable product.

I think Musk was definitely the right person for the company when it was more of a startup (he drove the hype that led to success) but I think he is most definitely not the right leader now. Maybe he could lead a "skunkworks" type team within Tesla...but there is a reason high-cost low likelihood projects should to be isolated from the broader company mission. FSD is very high risk project, where both the overall success and economic value are completely unknown (e.g., if FSD comes to fruition at Tesla other manufactures will likely follow suit which could lead to a price war on FSD where FSD becomes a "standard feature" loosing much of it's economic value, or a few high profile accidents could cause legislators to ban the product effectively killing the market all together). Tesla should absolutely continue to pursue FSD...but it should be seen as a skunkworks project rather than a "all eggs in one basket approach." With the declining growth in EV transition and increasing competition...Tesla needs to regain its focus on delivering the best EV experience...which includes fixing all the problems you mentioned (e.g., USS sensors, 360 camera, better auto headlights/wipers, etc.) while trying to add innovative features that make the driving experience better FOR ALL USERS not just the social media influencers.

I assume Tesla will fix the speed issues in the near future. V12 is definitely far superior to V11, but has some new quirks. Most of the issues I had with the old FSD have been resolved with V12.

 

[Cebu97]

After looking forward to getting the V12 upgrade, now that I have received it, especially if this is where things are going, I absolutely regret purchasing FSD and will never buy this feature again if we buy another Tesla.

With Ver 11 Beta, I had a truly useful feature in my car. I would let FSD Beta drive in cases where I was comfortable with it driving and in other cases, I could use TACC and lane keeping and it was so useful that I could use cruise control to set an exact speed, especially in areas with law enforcement or speed cameras. "Oh, a speed camera is coming up. The speed limit is 45. Let me set it to 51. Great. I'm done and I can just focus on steering."

Now after paying all that money for FSD, I feel like FSD is being crammed down my throat. When I bought FSD, I did not agree to not having access to TACC. After they took away basic TACC/Cruise Control and lane keeping, I wish I never upgraded to FSD 12. Losing that feature is absolutely not worth anything I may have gained.

Yeah, I've seen comments about creating separate profiles, but what kind of solution is that. Every time I need to use TACC and lane keeping, I need to change my driving profile, which may interrupt my music and other settings such as the saved seat position, and then I need to change my driver profile to use a feature I paid so much money for? How arrogant does a car company become to make this a "solution" to a problem they have created by taking away a basic feature I never wanted them to take away.

I don't buy the nonsense argument that this was done for safety. If this is a safety related change, they would have issued an OTA update for Ver 11 which allows the use of TACC with lane keeping and FSD separately.

I absolutely disagree with the speed set by FSD in urban driving situations around the DC area at certain times. Many times, it is either driving too fast or too slow. Earlier I could fall back on TACC and lane keeping but it is the height of draconian arrogance to remove TACC that has always been available in our cars. At least offer the OPTION of having access to TACC and lane keeping the way it used to work.

Now when I try to enable cruise control just to have the car maintain a set speed, I get the message that it's "not available." Oh really? You mean to tell me you can put the car I bought (that came with cruise control) on cruise control, but you are telling me that you are not going to do that because you want to cram something else down my throat where Tesla decides which lane I should be and which speed the car should drive? How absolutely lovely! So glad I bought a car that knows better than me which lane and speed I should drive the car.

The realization I've come to is I do not want FSD if I'm I don't have control over the speed and lane changes. When Tesla has their robot taxi fleet working and if and when they are responsible for the actions of the car, they can drive the car how they please. While I'm in charge, in control, and responsible, I set the speed in my car based on prevailing conditions.

They've become such an obnoxiously arrogant company. They took away the rain sensor and have been trying to detect rain for the last 5 years. ultrasonic sensors are gone, and they'll be working on their synthetic vision to duplicate that functionality for the next 5 years, still there is no 360-view like any other normal modern car. And now they've removed having easy access to TACC with steering because they know better than me which lane and speed the car should drive.

Is there any way I can get rid of this FSD being crammed down my throat "upgrade" and go back to having access to FSD Beta or TACC with me deciding which works better for me?

They should rename "FSD Supervised" to "FSD crammed down your throat and you will like it and ask for more because we know what's best for you and since you love Tesla so much, we can do no wrong."

It's like this is not even my car anymore. Way to go to alienate their best customers who paid for FSD and patiently waited years to have this crammed down our throats.

This is likely the last Tesla we buy. Funny thing is that I used to tell everyone I know to buy a Tesla. Now I tell everyone I know to not buy a Tesla and look at all the other options.

I used to love this company so much. It's honestly sad to see what they've become.

 

[Cebu97]

After looking forward to getting the V12 upgrade, now that I have received it, especially if this is where things are going, I absolutely regret purchasing FSD and will never buy this feature again if we buy another Tesla.

With Ver 11 Beta, I had a truly useful feature in my car. I would let FSD Beta drive in cases where I was comfortable with it driving and in other cases, I could use TACC and lane keeping and it was so useful that I could use cruise control to set an exact speed, especially in areas with law enforcement or speed cameras. "Oh, a speed camera is coming up. The speed limit is 45. Let me set it to 51. Great. I'm done and I can just focus on steering."

Now after paying all that money for FSD, I feel like FSD is being crammed down my throat. When I bought FSD, I did not agree to not having access to TACC. After they took away basic TACC/Cruise Control and lane keeping, I wish I never upgraded to FSD 12. Losing that feature is absolutely not worth anything I may have gained.

Yeah, I've seen comments about creating separate profiles, but what kind of solution is that. Every time I need to use TACC and lane keeping, I need to change my driving profile, which may interrupt my music and other settings such as the saved seat position, and then I need to change my driver profile to use a feature I paid so much money for? How arrogant does a car company become to make this a "solution" to a problem they have created by taking away a basic feature I never wanted them to take away.

I don't buy the nonsense argument that this was done for safety. If this is a safety related change, they would have issued an OTA update for Ver 11 which allows the use of TACC with lane keeping and FSD separately.

I absolutely disagree with the speed set by FSD in urban driving situations around the DC area at certain times. Many times, it is either driving too fast or too slow. Earlier I could fall back on TACC and lane keeping but it is the height of draconian arrogance to remove TACC that has always been available in our cars. At least offer the OPTION of having access to TACC and lane keeping the way it used to work.

Now when I try to enable cruise control just to have the car maintain a set speed, I get the message that it's "not available." Oh really? You mean to tell me you can put the car I bought (that came with cruise control) on cruise control, but you are telling me that you are not going to do that because you want to cram something else down my throat where Tesla decides which lane I should be and which speed the car should drive? How absolutely lovely! So glad I bought a car that knows better than me which lane and speed I should drive the car.

The realization I've come to is I do not want FSD if I'm I don't have control over the speed and lane changes. When Tesla has their robot taxi fleet working and if and when they are responsible for the actions of the car, they can drive the car how they please. While I'm in charge, in control, and responsible, I set the speed in my car based on prevailing conditions.

They've become such an obnoxiously arrogant company. They took away the rain sensor and have been trying to detect rain for the last 5 years. ultrasonic sensors are gone, and they'll be working on their synthetic vision to duplicate that functionality for the next 5 years, still there is no 360-view like any other normal modern car. And now they've removed having easy access to TACC with steering because they know better than me which lane and speed the car should drive.

Is there any way I can get rid of this FSD being crammed down my throat "upgrade" and go back to having access to FSD Beta or TACC with me deciding which works better for me?

They should rename "FSD Supervised" to "FSD crammed down your throat and you will like it and ask for more because we know what's best for you and since you love Tesla so much, we can do no wrong."

It's like this is not even my car anymore. Way to go to alienate their best customers who paid for FSD and patiently waited years to have this crammed down our throats.

This is likely the last Tesla we buy. Funny thing is that I used to tell everyone I know to buy a Tesla. Now I tell everyone I know to not buy a Tesla and look at all the other options.

I used to love this company so much. It's honestly sad to see what they've become.

2023 Model S......

I totally agree.

It would be nice if Tesla wakes up and fires Musk to move on to only implementing safety features that are not experimental.

Tesla has become more of a Marketing Co than an EV developer/manufacture.

 

[KLam]

The profile generation process is quite simple. Just select your current profile, change the FSD or AP setting and save it as another profile.
The process of changing profile is nothing more than changing of a radio station or your streaming channel.
I just don't understand the fuss about this. Really no point of arguing about an extra touch of the screen!

 

[DCEV]

Yikes it is honestly staggering to me how blinded people get with their love and devotion to a commercial company that it becomes like a part of their identity, religion, or tribe. I used to be somewhat a part of this phenomenon and was so proud of the day I got myself a TDG (Tesla "Driver's" Group) hat that was only available to owners. I used to wear that thing everywhere and would get into arguments with people if they said anything negative about Tesla. Back then in my eyes Tesla could do no wrong.

I'm now starting to wonder if all those people I argued with were actually right and it is I who was wrong.

I now consider myself a recovering cult member and I see things for what they are. They decided they want to cram FSD 12 down the throats of everyone and took away TACC, an essential driving aid for me, by turning a single button press to activate TACC into a needlessly arduous and annoying process.

I can't believe there are people actually claiming creating another driver profile is a remotely reasonable solution to this problem caused by Tesla trying to cram FSD 12 down the throat of people who bought it.

Let's see, since I bought my car and util the cram FSD down your throat update, I could always activate TACC within milliseconds with just the press of the cruise control stalk. I use TACC all the time in day-to-day driving when I want complete control over the steering and which lane I'm on. I also had quick access to enable FSD. Both had a time and purpose, and each could be turned on without needless hindrance.

So now what used to be a millisecond activation of TACC becomes:

• Moving my hand away from the steering wheel while driving in traffic.
• Looking at the center screen, taking my eye and attention away from driving..
• Press to select profiles.
• Press again to select the TACC profile.
• Appreciate how lovely it is to have my music and seat position potentially affected by the profile change.
• And now I can finally activate TACC.
• For added excitement I can go through these steps again if I want to use the FSD I paid for and waited 6 years for. Tesla ownership is just so awesome now.

And for some people, all these steps are perfectly reasonable to jump through needless hoops like a trained seal whenever you want to use TACC and not FSD or switch from one to the other. I respectfully disagree with them.

How about putting things back to the way it was with Version 11. You want to use TACC, you use TACC. You want to use FSD, you use FSD without needing to jump through hoops like a trained seal. How lovely to hear going though all these unnecessary steps to activate TACC is not a big deal when someone else has to do that.

Customers who paid for FSD should be able to use FSD because that's what they want to use over TACC without having FSD crammed down their throats by making TACC unavailable if the current driving session has FSD enabled.