Range, Tesla vs Others

[S&B's M3]

Today I was watching an episode of MotorWeek and they were testing the GV70 from Genesis (link below). It appears to be a very nice lux EV, but what stuck out to me was its range. The GV has a published range of 236 miles. However, in their testing, they observed 254 miles for a net INCREASE of 18 miles OVER the published range.

This has been my only issue with my 2019 SR+. As we all know the SR+ has a published range of 240 miles and we all know that simply isn't achievable. Mine is 4 years old with 14k on the ODO. I bought it while living in SoCal for commuting from my home in Orange County to my office in LA county, ~70 miles round trip. I kept a spread sheet on the Tesla's daily performance, i.e., actual daily miles driven, daily range miles consumed, start miles, end miles, and average range miles consumed per trip. I found that daily driving consumed 1.30 range miles to 1.52 range miles, based on several factors, for an overall average of 1.41 range miles consumed for every actual mile driven. This means that every fully charged battery, IF I could charge to 240 range miles, should give me ~170 miles actual miles (240÷1.41=170). However, like many of you, I can't charge to 240 range miles, but rather to a fairly consistent 90% of those range miles. And that's pretty constant whether I charge to 100%, 90%, 80% or less. The corresponding max miles is always 90% of whatever I set the charging session at. For instance, at 100% or 240 miles I only get about 215 to 217 range miles. At 80% charge I am only getting about 194ish range miles and at 70%, I’m only getting about 156 range miles.

Those figures are bad enough as is, but then you have to calculate net miles after the consumed range is figured in… at 100% of 240 I see a max charging range of 216, then take that 216 and divide by the average consumed range percent, in my case it’s 1.41, netting me an actual driving range of roughly 153 miles on a 100% fully charged battery. So out of a published range of 240 miles, netting me 153 or 63% of what Tesla says I should be getting. If I charge to 80% as suggested by Tesla for day-to-day driving, sadly, I see only 123 actual miles available or 51% of what Tesla says I should be getting.

I know, I know, “so sell it”.. that’s not the point. The point is that Tesla should advertise a real world average range not an unachievable EPA range. ICE monroney (MSRP) labels have an MPG showing best and worst mileage, so should Tesla.

Here’s the MotorWeek link:

 

[nicksp]

So if you charge your car to 100% and drive it till you get to 0, what's your driving range? 220 miles?

 

[johnny_cakes]

So if you charge your car to 100% and drive it till you get to 0, what's your driving range? 220 miles?

If I understand OP correctly, the observed range is 153 miles. 10% battery degradation and consumes 1.41 miles for every rated mile. So:

240 * 0.9 / 1.41 = 153 miles

 

[3sr+buyer]

I.e. the OP drives much less efficiently than the EPA rating, resulting in disappointing range.

 

[ucmndd]

How does the Model 3 perform on the same Motor Week test?

Comparing the results of a controlled range test to your own real world driving in completely different circumstances proves nothing of value.

 

[yesimon]

If you want to replicate EPA range numbers on a Tesla, drive at 60mph or slower with no A/C.

As for why Teslas have worse real-world numbers than other manufacturers, it's mainly because Tesla uses the 5-cycle EPA test procedure for EVs versus the 2-cycle test. Automakers can choose which one they want to use. This has been reported on extensively The Secret Adjustment Factor Tesla Uses to Get Its Big EPA Range Numbers.

 

[nicksp]

If I understand OP correctly, the observed range is 153 miles. 10% battery degradation and consumes 1.41 miles for every rated mile. So:

240 * 0.9 / 1.41 = 153 miles

I've owned 3 EVs. None of them have given me the range discrepancy OP has. If I drive at 65 mph with the AC on and the fan speed on 5, I get the advertised range.

 

[KenC]

Today I was watching an episode of MotorWeek and they were testing the GV70 from Genesis (link below). It appears to be a very nice lux EV, but what stuck out to me was its range. The GV has a published range of 236 miles. However, in their testing, they observed 254 miles for a net INCREASE of 18 miles OVER the published range.

View attachment 980376

This has been my only issue with my 2019 SR+. As we all know the SR+ has a published range of 240 miles and we all know that simply isn't achievable. Mine is 4 years old with 14k on the ODO. I bought it while living in SoCal for commuting from my home in Orange County to my office in LA county, ~70 miles round trip. I kept a spread sheet on the Tesla's daily performance, i.e., actual daily miles driven, daily range miles consumed, start miles, end miles, and average range miles consumed per trip. I found that daily driving consumed 1.30 range miles to 1.52 range miles, based on several factors, for an overall average of 1.41 range miles consumed for every actual mile driven. This means that every fully charged battery, IF I could charge to 240 range miles, should give me ~170 miles actual miles (240÷1.41=170). However, like many of you, I can't charge to 240 range miles, but rather to a fairly consistent 90% of those range miles. And that's pretty constant whether I charge to 100%, 90%, 80% or less. The corresponding max miles is always 90% of whatever I set the charging session at. For instance, at 100% or 240 miles I only get about 215 to 217 range miles. At 80% charge I am only getting about 194ish range miles and at 70%, I’m only getting about 156 range miles.

Those figures are bad enough as is, but then you have to calculate net miles after the consumed range is figured in… at 100% of 240 I see a max charging range of 216, then take that 216 and divide by the average consumed range percent, in my case it’s 1.41, netting me an actual driving range of roughly 153 miles on a 100% fully charged battery. So out of a published range of 240 miles, netting me 153 or 63% of what Tesla says I should be getting. If I charge to 80% as suggested by Tesla for day-to-day driving, sadly, I see only 123 actual miles available or 51% of what Tesla says I should be getting.

I know, I know, “so sell it”.. that’s not the point. The point is that Tesla should advertise a real world average range not an unachievable EPA range. ICE monroney (MSRP) labels have an MPG showing best and worst mileage, so should Tesla.

Here’s the MotorWeek link:

You're in SoCal and now Texas. I doubt your highway speeds are anywhere close to what the EPA test uses.

Doesn't matter if it's ICE or EV, everyone knows that the EPA test can't be accurate for anyone or everyone. Generally, you base it upon your experience with prior vehicles, and where you currently live. Now, to be fair, EVs are far more sensitive to speed, just like hybrids were.

I'd recommend getting ABRP, and registering for free. That will give you a "calibrated" consumption rate at 65mph, which you can compare to EPA. Mine can be as low as 235Wh/mile under optimal conditions, but in the screenshot below it's 247Wh/mile. Basically, if I were to drive 65mph, it'd give me the EPA rating. Fine, I don't drive that slow, but it's good to know what my car is getting the range it's supposed to if I were to drive that slow.

If you're higher than what you expect, it could be your climate control settings. But this way, you've taken speed out of the equation.

Then go into your detailed energy use screen and look to see what the car sees as your energy use breakdown. Is your higher consumption due to speed or climate or something else.

Now that was an interesting usage, as I was driving to a Supercharger, the car was pre-conditioning the whole 75miles, and it sucked down ¼ of my total usage! I had no idea that it used so much to pre-condition. Now that I do, if I'm iffy on getting to a SC, I would actually turn off pre-conditioning, by resetting my destination so it would stop heating the battery. In those situations, it's far more important to get to the charger than it is to charge fast!

So, the reason for my example, is I wonder if pre-conditioning is distorting some people's understanding of range. Of course, typically the time spent pre-conditioning is quite short, but I think my battery had been cold-soaked overnight.

 

[DuncanM]

Today I was watching an episode of MotorWeek and they were testing the GV70 from Genesis (link below). It appears to be a very nice lux EV, but what stuck out to me was its range. The GV has a published range of 236 miles. However, in their testing, they observed 254 miles for a net INCREASE of 18 miles OVER the published range.

View attachment 980376

This has been my only issue with my 2019 SR+. As we all know the SR+ has a published range of 240 miles and we all know that simply isn't achievable. Mine is 4 years old with 14k on the ODO. I bought it while living in SoCal for commuting from my home in Orange County to my office in LA county, ~70 miles round trip. I kept a spread sheet on the Tesla's daily performance, i.e., actual daily miles driven, daily range miles consumed, start miles, end miles, and average range miles consumed per trip. I found that daily driving consumed 1.30 range miles to 1.52 range miles, based on several factors, for an overall average of 1.41 range miles consumed for every actual mile driven. This means that every fully charged battery, IF I could charge to 240 range miles, should give me ~170 miles actual miles (240÷1.41=170). However, like many of you, I can't charge to 240 range miles, but rather to a fairly consistent 90% of those range miles. And that's pretty constant whether I charge to 100%, 90%, 80% or less. The corresponding max miles is always 90% of whatever I set the charging session at. For instance, at 100% or 240 miles I only get about 215 to 217 range miles. At 80% charge I am only getting about 194ish range miles and at 70%, I’m only getting about 156 range miles.

Those figures are bad enough as is, but then you have to calculate net miles after the consumed range is figured in… at 100% of 240 I see a max charging range of 216, then take that 216 and divide by the average consumed range percent, in my case it’s 1.41, netting me an actual driving range of roughly 153 miles on a 100% fully charged battery. So out of a published range of 240 miles, netting me 153 or 63% of what Tesla says I should be getting. If I charge to 80% as suggested by Tesla for day-to-day driving, sadly, I see only 123 actual miles available or 51% of what Tesla says I should be getting.

I know, I know, “so sell it”.. that’s not the point. The point is that Tesla should advertise a real world average range not an unachievable EPA range. ICE monroney (MSRP) labels have an MPG showing best and worst mileage, so should Tesla.

Here’s the MotorWeek link:

The Motorweek test is interesting but really quite useless!!! They don't give the average speeds and other parameters of their test cycle!

I have tested my M3 in SW NW on level state hwys from Portal AZ to Columbus NM then Deming NM and back. I drove with AP on and +5mph over the posted limit (60-65 mph) and my M3 used 50% indicated SOC to drive 131 miles and when the bottom battery buffer is taken into account, this indicates a range of over 270 miles on this test loop at 60-65mph which equals the EPA combine range rating for my M3. Deming Walmart NM to Lordsburg NM EA station is 62 miles and when I cruise at 84mph on the I10 I will use ~33% of indicated SOC upon arrival at the Lordsburg EA station which gives a predicted range of about 186 miles at 84mph (and ~5% more using the bottom buffer). My experience is that my Tesla M3 fairly and accurately reports range and will achieve rated range at ~60-65mph.

 

[DuncanM]

2023 M3 RWD = 264 miles at 70 mph (100% SOC to exhaustion):

 

[RayK]

The Motorweek test is interesting but really quite useless!!! They don't give the average speeds and other parameters of their test cycle!

Note that according to the MW transcript, their "mileage" appears to be an estimate.

Quote by MotorWeek (bolded is mine):

The Electrified GV70 is rated to travel 236-miles between those charging sessions.

But based on our driving loop, we’d say more is easily possible as we were on pace for over 250-miles; making it an overachiever, much like the G80.

To me that indicates they didn't drive the full 250+ miles but extrapolated from some lower distance. And again, not knowing what kind of speeds were used, nor the type of road (highway vs. city streets), nor the weather, etc. Not a very scientific methodology.

ref: 2023 Genesis Electrified GV70 Road Test: Genesis Waves Their Magic EV Wand Yet Again

 

[GtiMart]

This has been discussed before in other threads. 1- conditions of the drive (speed, temperature, winds etc). 2- some manufacturers publish a range that is different / lower than the actual EPA test. You cannot compare cars in that case since you are not using the same reference. Obviously those cars will appear better when compared to the published number when you test them independently. Look at the Porsche Taycan as an example.

 

[S&B's M3]

This is interesting.. seems I'm not the only owner that feels they were mislead or outright lied to about range.

Tesla owners suing automaker for falsely overstating vehicle range

Tesla owners suing automaker for falsely overstating range

ny1.com

 

[IdaX]

It's the EPA that measures the range. I don't get why ppl think that it's Tesla that's overreporting the range.

I can do better than rated range, you just have to pull out all of the stops. Perfect weather, no A/C (fans only), 40mph, aired up tires, I got 20% over rated range in my 2017 Model X. Zooming up and down LA freeways I'm not surprised that you're getting less than rated, however.

 

[nicksp]

On my 18 M3LR I have no problems driving 300 miles at 65 mph and with AC on manual. But the range will go down at 70 or 75 mph and the AC set on auto and low temp.

 

[DuncanM]

This is interesting.. seems I'm not the only owner that feels they were mislead or outright lied to about range.

Tesla owners suing automaker for falsely overstating vehicle range

Tesla owners suing automaker for falsely overstating range

ny1.com

You haven't provided any info to support your position. Your initial post doesn't say anything about what speed you're driving at, which of course is the most critical factor in range measurement; I and others have measured our range and found that at ~60mph we can achieve rated range. The other factor is altitude change, as going uphill for much of the journey will increase consumption, and cannot be fully recovered via regen on the way down.

 

[chrisg05]

As others have stated the EPA test for all cars is quite optimistic at best. I had a toyota camry hybrid that was rated for 37 mpg and the only way I was able to achive that was going 55 mph with no climate control on straight and level roadways. This was the same for my highlander hybrid that I traded away for my model X,. In the wiinter on that said highlander I achieved between 30 and 32 mpg. The model X is no different

typically on my 2020 model X both my wife and I on average will get 350 whm or 2.85 miles per kilowatt. When you add that over a 100 kwh battery you get 285plus miles per chage from 0 to 100 percent. Now on average we do not charge to 100 and we do not run it down to 0%. With my average what hours per mile and the spread that we do with charging 20% to 80%., my real world range would be aproximately 171 miles per charge.

In my summer driving we get between 300 and 333 whm with summer tires and 22 inch wheels. The climate control is set at 72 with ac. In that case, using the same formula we would get between 180 to 200 miles per charge. if we were to go from 0 to 100 state of charge I would be looking at in my summer configuration 300 to 333 miles. All of my tests were done at 60-65 mph with proper tire pressure

the point of my rant is in ideal conditions.. yes you will get EPA or close to EPA range. Most people do not drive in Ideal condiditons.

 

[strider]

While not illegal, Tesla is by far the most "optimistic" EV vendor. Here are the results of Car and Driver's real world testing from: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a44676201/ev-range-epa-vs-real-world-tested/

It also gets WAY worse with the less aerodynamic cars. I can get pretty close to rated range in my wife's MS but I can only get 83% of rated in my MXP. This is a mix of highway at 74mph and city (~35mph average). The higher speeds and larger frontal area of the MX is a killer. This is also why CT owners are finding it effectively impossible to meet rated range.

 

[KenBlub]

Don’t know what to say. In the summer I have a 30 mile commute each way. Model 3 LR AWD. My average Wh/mi was 221. The commute was 60% on a 60 MPH highway and 40% on semi rural roads at 40-45 MPH. Pretty close to the EPA test and as you can see, I got rated miles because I drive the speed limit. obviously my winter consumption is higher.