Range Concerns

[Pianewman]

Buyer naivety is the biggest problem, as with most issues in life. "No one told me!" "I had no idea!" "Manufacturer lied to me!"

Capitalism/marketing has always been a slippery slope, when it comes to the facts.

Caveat emptor, in all things.

 

[pipestem]

You’re right in that ICE cars don’t lose that much, but its more inherent to the technologies.

ICE, by default generates and wastes a lot of heat. Heat it can use when you want to warm up the cabin.
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It's literatlly called a heat engine. If you wonder why a BEV can get a 120MPGe, it's because an ICE engine is only about 25% efficient. The ICE only works becuase it has a much larger battery (gas tank).

I will agree that winter range loss is one of the biggest drawbacks to an EV. Fortunately I live in NC and don't need to drive north very often. I have not studied it but I have to wonder where research is going in making BEV's more efficient in the cold.

 

[Attica]

You’re right in that ICE cars don’t lose that much, but its more inherent to the technologies.

ICE, by default generates and wastes a lot of heat. Heat it can use when you want to warm up the cabin.

EVs don’t generate as much waste heat for it use, so it has to generate more to keep you warm. According to the car, of the 13.6% I've consumed so far, 2.2% was for the climate.


and


Conversely, imagine the MPG/range ICE could’ve had if all that heat went into moving the car instead. Then EV’s biggest con would be super dramatic, that is the energy density by volume/weight compared to gas.

Would more energy be used in winter running the cabin heater or in summer running the a/c

 

[Goobers]

Would more energy be used in winter running the cabin heater or in summer running the a/c

Honestly, I can’t say.

That’s too specific to the cars. Of course, I don’t even know which one you are referring to, ICE or EV? And even for EVs, with or without heat pumps?

At best, I can only give generalizations. Not to mention, I’m not an expert or anything close to the matter.

For ICE, an A/C compressor is typically connected to the engine through a belt, which is driven by the crankshaft. So it directly uses up some engine power. A few ICE cars use electrical compressors (hybrids, like Prius?). Using the heater doesn’t require any additional effort from ICE, since all you’re doing is venting air that was passed over a heater core (one of the radiators from the engine). Even if you don’t need to heat the cabin, that heat will still be generated. ICE loses MPG in winter for other reasons.

For EVs, in both summer and winter, you need to divert energy to do either. Pre-heat pump, you “only” run the A/C during summer while relying only on a heating element in winter (I think it’s called PTC). With heat pump, the compressor is now used all the time (heating is just the “opposite” of cooling with heat pump). If there isn’t enough heat, a Tesla runs the motors “inefficiently” to generate it. And if that isn’t enough there is supposed to a PTC as the last ditch effort. Not sure about other brands. The PTC is a big, if not the biggest, battery drain.

And this is focusing on the cabin. Some systems, like Tesla‘s heat pump integrates cabin, battery, battery management and motor circulation together. Even pre-heat doesn’t necessarily separate them completely.