Quadbreaker in panel for Mobile Connector?

[jgd108]

Hello TMC electrical gurus!
What do you think of my panel to add a breaker for using the mobile connector?
I'm not an electrician, I just know for my last house they added a quadbreaker to squeeze in a 50amps breaker.
Panel also looks full here but my untrained eye thinks it might be possible to convert the bottom left 2 breakers into a quadbreaker.
Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Sophias_dad]

It is probably possible, but some panels have a limit on the number of tandem breakers. Get a picture of the inside of the door and someone will look it up.

Additional considerations:

That feed line looks like its only about 4 or maybe 2 AWG tops. That panel is likely already beyond its load capacity. What kind of breaker is feeding it?

Note that one of those lower-left breakers is 15 amps and the other is 20 amps. It doesn't look like eaton sells any quadbreakers where the outlying breakers don't match, so you'll have to make it either 15/15 or maybe 20/20(presuming the wiring would handle it!) Again, you probably don't have ANY excess capacity right now.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Looking further at the quadbreaker in the upper left, I think its missing a component that's supposed to link the outer two breakers! Note the four colored wires... three blacks and one red, and the red is connected to an outer breaker. This is 'unusual' in that red is usually used as the extra-hot-wire for a 240 volt circuit. Additionally, I looked up the BQC220230 and it is supposed to be switching 2x240 volt loads https://smile.amazon.com/Eaton-BQC220230-Quad-Breaker-1-2P/dp/B004Q06GQ2

Its also a little unusual to see two black wires connected to the center pair, but not necessarily incorrect. Its too hard to follow the wires, but if they are both going to the same conduit, it would make sense.

 

[jgd108]

Thanks @Sophias_dad you bring excellent points!
I have yet to read your second post, just took a picture of the inside door, let me know if that's what you were looking for!
Thinking of a duplex now instead of a quad.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Sorry I can't tell you if that lower right pair can be converted to a quad. You'll have to remove one of the breakers(after switching it off) and look at the tab. Its not a big deal, no tools required. Just switch it off and pull it up at the switch-end. It pivots on a lip built into the underside of the the screw-end. Once you have it tilted out look at the tab in the middle of the panel and compare it to the picture near the hand icon on the door. If its solid all the way across and into the other bottom breaker, tandem breakers aren't allowed there. If instead there's a cutout section(per the picture) near the middle of the panel, tandems are allowed there.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Thinking of a duplex now instead of a quad.

Still probably cant squeeze much more out of that panel, and you also will then have to piggyback those two circuits with two others already in your panel. You can easily add the 15 to the 'garage door' breaker. See Graphs of common devices energy use. YMMV.

I can't read enough of the other wire labels to suggest a good piggyback for the 20 amp. Maybe 'Hood' or the one driving your clothes washer. If 'Hood' is a common range hood, it won't take much power on its own for a fan and light.

As I look further at it, I see other strange cases of reds being on individual circuits. I suspect the installer was using 12/3 or 14/3 wire and separating out the two loads downstream. Not something I would do, but then again, I'm not a professional.

 

[jgd108]

Thanks @Sophias_dad I really appreciate your feedback. Seems to confirm my suspicion that it might be tight to add a 40/50amp breaker to this panel. Amazing for a 2011 built home that they give such small panels, last house I upgraded to 200amps when I installed solar, but on the 100amps I think there was an empty slot at the top to add the quadbreaker.

 

[Sophias_dad]

lower right pair

I meant lower left pair, but the rest still applies.

 

[Sophias_dad]

The next course of action here should be to find the breaker that's feeding this entire panel. With luck, you'll find that its larger than I expect(2 gauge wire can take only 95 amps, so a 100 amp breaker) or maybe my calibrated eyes are misreading the gauge of the wire. With more luck, you'll find that there's a free pair of breaker spots next to the feeder breaker and you can just add your breaker there.

If you are gonna go messing around with the feeding panel(beyond looking at the breaker rating) you'll likely want to get an electrician involved because you'll be unlikely to know what the feeding panel's feedER is able to supply.

 

[jgd108]

Hi @Sophias_dad since it's 4 condos next to each other I went to the electrical closet again and opened the "service disconnect" for my unit to find it's a 100amp breaker.

Even though the cover doesn't show it the diagram shows 7 slots on both sides and it does look like there is a seventh row..
Took a picture of the writing on the cable also if it helps. Looks quite thick, copper I believe.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Hi @Sophias_dad since it's 4 condos next to each other I went to the electrical closet again and opened the "service disconnect" for my unit to find it's a 100amp breaker.

Even though the cover doesn't show it the diagram shows 7 slots on both sides and it does look like there is a seventh row..
Took a picture of the writing on the cable also if it helps. Looks quite thick, copper I believe.

There's no bus bar for that row, and no cutout in the door for it, so it shouldn't be considered as a usable position. Looking a bit further, I think its a BR1224L125V1 loadcenter, and should be able to take a quad breaker in the lower left, replacing the two BR breakers that are there now.

Regarding the 100 amp service, you'll have to do a little work to figure out if there's any available capacity. You might be able to squeeze a 30 or 40 amp 240 volt circuit in, but until you do the math you won't really know. If you have any ability to convert to gas powered appliances, that would help significantly.

 

[jgd108]

Thanks you've been amazingly helpful! I appreciate all the help.
Yes load calcs for sure!
Luckily all my main appliances other than AC (water heather, stove / oven, heating) are all natural gas!
Maybe that's why they gave such a tiny panel..

 

[Sophias_dad]

Might want to read through this, to get some ideas and links for load calculations:

Difficult situation with a Condo, advice appreciated...

Hi everyone! I recently took delivery of a Tesla Model 3 Long Range, and I love it! Unfortunately, it seems that I should have done more homework when it comes to charging. I live in a 1970's condo unit in Los Angeles and I'm trying to get home charging installed. My HOA is receptive to me...

teslamotorsclub.com

TLDR is that he's looking at a 70 amp main and STILL seems to be able to put 30 amps toward an EV charger, also in Los Angeles.

 

[jgd108]

For posterity (I always appreciate when I look at posts when the outcome is posted!)
I called an electrician and glad I did it was a bit above my pay grade
Was able to install a quad breaker and got the outlet near the panel flushed with the wall.
Tested with a friend's Tesla UMC and it was green.
Now just need the car

 

[Sophias_dad]

Wow... 50 amps.. Might be an 'interesting' Summer cooling season.

Thanks for the update!

 

[jgd108]

That's right, we discussed about AC. The UMC only draws 32A - 7.7kW
No idea what the AC peaks at since it's not sustained like charging.
I typically never run AC during the night or mornings, which should be plenty of time for getting a full charge.
Looks like NEMA 14-50 adapter has to be purchased now?! haha

 

[Rocky_H]

Looks like NEMA 14-50 adapter has to be purchased now?! haha

Yeah, been that way for a couple of years now, and I think it makes sense. With lower priced models making a more broad market, people with smaller houses and less electrical capacity are buying the cars, and are going toward 20 or 30A circuits for their home charging, so giving away the same type of plug with every car, half of which will never be used, just isn't making sense anymore. I do think they should just have a voucher to let people pick one adapter plug of their choice, so if people are going with 6-20 or 14-30, they can get that.

 

[ChrisMPK]

That's right, we discussed about AC. The UMC only draws 32A - 7.7kW
No idea what the AC peaks at since it's not sustained like charging.
I typically never run AC during the night or mornings, which should be plenty of time for getting a full charge.
Looks like NEMA 14-50 adapter has to be purchased now?! haha

You'll be fine. From the labels on your breaker panel you are unlikely to run any significant current on any of those breakers in the middle of the night. As long as you schedule your charging after 11PM or so you should never have a situation where you are maxing out your panel. People often underestimate the time-value of electrical usage when sizing their breaker. Yes a lower rated outlet draws less, but for a much longer period of time during which you are likely to use other appliances such as air conditioning.