EldestOyster
Member
I had decided to withhold my snarky remarks about the gas tax allegedly going to fix the roads. But, yeah, that :smile:
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In my opinion, Elon is the most likable and identifiable billionaire CEO, visionary maybe ever. If you didn't know it, you would think you're listening to your nerdy buddy in algebra class, or your quirky college roommate late at night cramming for finals hyped up on red bull fumes. He expresses his fears, foibles, but never gives up on reaching higher for all his friends and family(and the rest of us too). Elon is using his mind to have the courage to follow his heart and that's something we wish to do in our own lives. His palpable fear of public speaking just makes him more endearing and real and that's something rare in this world of polished, calculating, and distant, and scripted CEOs looking no further then their golden parachute. Elon is the business Titan of our times and needs to be emulated for generations to come.
I do get the impression that plugging them into an existing solar string inverter is the current use case as it stands. I still don't see the financial benefit to doing so, however. See my analysis of such things in my other thread.
Grid arbitrage is not going to work out well with this without solar. See my other thread.
this would not let one go off grid unless you live near the equator, or have a huge number of solar panels.
I think you're severely underestimating the solar power generation during non-summer months. Nonetheless, it's impossible for anyone to tell you if the Powerwall makes financial sense without knowing your monthly energy consumption, your exact variable rates, and your monthly solar power generation. Without those details, it's just a guessing game that doesn't serve any real purpose.
People here have commented on why they won't buy this product. Here are my thoughts as to why I am going to line up (all alone) outside Tesla here and buy the very first unit I can get my hands on.
First power here is expensive (with a capital E).
- Grid power costs $0,33 pr kWh (all prices in $US) and 80% of that is tax.
- Solarpower shipped to the grid can be used inside of an hour with no penalty. Hence the grid is a 1-hour battery.
- Solarpower sold back to the grid gives me $0,195 pr kWh.
Since we are not home at noon and can't use our solarpower this means that we effectively become an underpaid generator for the grid. The Powerwall would allow us to run without the grid for approx. 150-250 days pr year. It really makes solarpanels a much better deal than before and as an added bonus the tax-man never sees a dime.
Our daily usage is between 8-14 kWh's and with just a little work we could probably get below 8 kWh all the time.
So to sum it up: I want this powerwall and I wanted it yesteryear.
If the 10kwh pack is not meant for daily cycling, then it could possibly be defended for tax purposes for use primarily as a standby battery. Although I toyed with the power shifting idea, my real reason for getting one of these is to enable my house to continue operating from PV panels after the grid goes down. Thoughts?
From the specs, my very strong suspicion is that the 7kw will easily be defended for the tax credits.
The output looks to me like it will go between solar panels and a new or existing solar inverter. No possible way to charge it from the grid to load shift. It will get all of its energy from the sun, and take the early morning energy, store it and dump it from 6-9pm, this shaving off the peak that occurs when the sun is setting.
In this scenerio, there is no question wether it would qualify for the ITC.
Thanks for this interpretation, Theshadows. Although I currently have microinverters on all my 54 PV panels, the microinverters are failing at a pretty good clip right now (about 10% in the past year). I may choose to have microinverters removed from some of the PVs (if that is possible), hold onto the good microinverters as spares, are then take the DC current from the modified PV panels, run it through the Powerwall batteries, then use a traditional inverter to connect with my system. The whole idea is to enhance the reliability of my electric power at the house and provide backup power for times when the grid is down. If I get tax breaks, I'd probably go for two 7kwh powerwalls. I'm hoping if my panels are producing 30kwh or more in a day that I could pass some of that current through the powerwall (or bypass) and use more than 14kwh of PV power that day when the grid is down.
Just tried to PM you on micro-inverters in general... message bounce, said your inbox quota has been reached...!Let me guess, Enphase.
They are the next Tesla battery killer didn't you know?
Let me guess, Enphase.
They are the next Tesla battery killer didn't you know?
http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2014/10/Enphase-AC-Battery-Brochure-1.pdf
I think this product will the the one that ends them for good.
They want to put small packs of lifepo4 batteries on people's roofs. Where it easily hits 180 deg F.
We send guys out every week to do warranty work on Enphase systems.
We installed 1209 Enphase micro inverters before we realized there were reliability issues. I asked our PM to run a report for me tomorrow to see exactly how many inverters we have replaced.
Tesla Motors chose SolarEdge string inverters that have a panel level optimization system. They handle shade down to the panel level and they are also much safer to work on.
SolarEdge: maximum PV energy at a lower cost - Part 1/3 - YouTube
In my experience with solar inverters there is no doubt in my mind that Tesla chose the right partner.
We only install SMA and SolarEdge inverters and there is a reason for that.
Let me guess, Enphase.
Guilty as charged ; ) Sounds like I have all the more reason to dump the Enphase microinverters and go with a string inverter for a bunch of the panels. Now, if I can just find out if that's possible. I understand the issues of shade and orientation when changing from microinverters to a string inverter.
0 issues if you go with Solar Edge.
If your shading isn't too bad, the new SMA -22 series are really good too. Not as good as Solar Edge though.
Agreed, putting batteries on the roof is stupid, but the "AC Battery" brochure says nothing about roof mounting. "Install mounting bracket on studs", "Flexible configurations for any garage" says to me they clearly intend them to be mounted inside the house.Let me guess, Enphase.
They are the next Tesla battery killer didn't you know?
http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2014/10/Enphase-AC-Battery-Brochure-1.pdf
I think this product will the the one that ends them for good.
They want to put small packs of lifepo4 batteries on people's roofs. Where it easily hits 180 deg F.
We send guys out every week to do warranty work on Enphase systems.
So are you saying that the optimizers can handle complete shading of a panel? Is there a limit to the number that can be shaded (absolute #, or % of string)? I couldn't find that clearly stated in the brochures I looked at.Tesla Motors chose SolarEdge string inverters that have a panel level optimization system. They handle shade down to the panel level and they are also much safer to work on.