Possible Total Insurance Loss: Best Practices for Handling FSD (Full-Self-Driving) and FUSC (Free Supercharging) with Insurance Carrier?

[houstonian]

Greetings all.

Sad to say my S75D was involved in an accident earlier this week. Glad to report no one was hurt (thanks Tesla!) but now facing a possible total loss of the vehicle and trying to understand the best paths forward here.

Some details - can provide more if needed:

• Diver's steering wheel + driver's footwell airbag deployed; NO other airbags deployed
• No apparent damage, save the airbag deployments mentioned above, to cabin
• All damage occurred in the front of the vehicle
  • (assumed) passenger front quarter panel appears to be non-damaged
  • (assumed) driver front quarter panel will need replacement
  • (assumed) driver door will need replacement
  • (assumed) front suspension will need replacement
  • (assumed) bumper-to-main batter replacement of front components
  • (assumed) NO damage to the main battery
  • (unclear) frame damage - there is a small buckle in one of the components, can post pic if requested, this is NOT the main frame but rather one of the two sub-frames connecting the bumper to the body.

Also of note, when ordered in late 2016 I opted for the FSD package and Tesla grandfathered the car into FUSC and Premium Connectivity. The FSD and FUSC are listed on the car's 'window sticker'.

About 3 years ago I also opted for the MCU1 > MCU2 upgrade as well.

My tremendous preference is for State Farm NOT to total the car, opting for a repair instead but given the nature of the damages it is currently unclear as how it will shake out. Ideally, if the carrier agrees with me and opts for repair then this thread is moot, but if not, I'm trying to understand if others have any wisdom to offer.

State Farm mentioned if airbags deploy they typically -but not always- move to total the car citing the cost of having to replace the entire dash from the passenger airbag deployment. Fortunately, in my case, the passenger airbag did not deploy and (I assume) the interior of the car to be damage free, so perhaps there's a glimmer of hope there.

To be clear: I anticipate a major repair bill here ($~20/30k) but am hoping to do all in my power to demonstrate the repair costs to be under the threshold to total, which State Farm advises is ~75% of the value of the vehicle.

Therefore the key metric, I think?, to focus on is 75% of the value of the vehicle, giving two avenues I can pursue concurrently: finding ways to reduce the costs to repair AND ways to ensure the fair market value is correct.

The cost aspect appears self-explanatory: making sure the adjuster accurately records costs (e.g. noting while airbags DID deploy, there is no damage to the dash).

The value aspect is more nebulous as it is unclear how to value optional items delivered with the car (and therefore on the 'window sticker') when the prices of the options have changed (e.g. FSD going from $8k > $15k) or them no longer being offered and therefore being unable to price (e.g. FUSC).

FWIW with FUSC I do have logged via TeslaFi ~98% of my charging usage, including SC'ing since delivery. Uncertain if this will prove useful, but can substantiate my supercharger usage for the life of the car.

Lastly are things implied at delivery but formalized afterwards (e.g. Premium Connectivity).

My overall point is I need to ensure the carrier considers the replacement cost of the vehicle at FMV (e.g. $15k for FSD) when making their determination to total or repair and am willing to do their legwork so they can correctly assign the correct value to the car's current replacement cost.

The adjuster is scheduled for next week and I plan on being there when the report is made but am hoping to get whatever wisdom or guidance others may have to offer here.

Thanks in advance.

Other relevant thread: How is your insurance handling "autonomy"?

 

[ucmndd]

First, sorry about the accident, glad you're ok.

My overall point is I need to ensure the carrier considers the replacement cost of the vehicle at FMV (e.g. $15k for FSD) when making their determination to total or repair

To be blunt, this is really not how it works and I don't think you're likely to have a lot of success pursuing this angle.

The insurance company owes you replacement value for your car as it was just prior to the accident. In your case, that means a 75D with FSD and free supercharging. Your best bet is to make sure that the comps they pull to justify their valuation are accurate, and to have examples of recent sales that match your vehicle config on-hand to argue that valuation if you need to.

Second-hand value of FSD is quite low... it seems to add about $1-2k to the price of a used car. The insurance company is going to base the valuation on a similar vintage and condition used car with FSD. The current retail value of the option on a new car is inconsequential.

Same with FUSC - the value to YOU (as measured by your charging receipts) is not in question - only what the market value is of a replacement car with FUSC. This is where you need to come armed with data, be ready to explain how the transferability works, and show examples of recent sales that included free charging.

Good luck.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

With the poor quality of work being done by body shops these days, if I were you, I would happily take the payout, per the advice above, and find a nice replacement with the same specs.

Your car will very likely never be close to the same one you loved before the accident, and it's resale value would be beyond tanked with a major accident on its vehicle history. Plus it will probably take forever with lots of stress and frustration dealing the body shop and issues sure to arise after the repairs.

 

[jeremymc7]

OP message is way too much. To read.

Allstate covered my FSD. Possibly because it was on original purchase. Post purchase probably would have been covered as long as it was added to policy just like any other post car additions like custom stereo or other upgrades.

The SuperCharging they would not cover it. Per their argument it’s equivalent to gas on an ICE far which they don’t cover as well. The future value argument for use during potential ownership of the car would likely require you to get a lawyer and go after your own insurance company.

Either way they paid me more than I purchased car new for and I was still able to get credits / rebates on the replacement so I came out ahead in multiple ways.

 

[houstonian]

First, sorry about the accident, glad you're ok.

Thanks - as bummed as I am to be out the car, the fact everyone walked away without injury is a blessing. Grateful for it.

To be blunt, this is really not how it works...this is where you need to come armed with data, be ready to explain how the transferability works, and show examples of recent sales that included free charging.

Good luck.

This helps; I'll start working on comps this weekend to get an idea of where the market's at.

The car itself was at ~210k, so high mileage, but will dig around to see what other datapoints exist.

With the poor quality of work being done by body shops these days, if I were you, I would happily take the payout, per the advice above, and find a nice replacement with the same specs.

Appreciate the pragmatic advice.

Plan on using Tesla's body shop (they've got one here in Houston) if the carrier opts to repair but still understand a repair may never restore the vehicle back to 100%.

Allstate covered my FSD. Possibly because it was on original purchase.

Good to know - FSD was included with the car at the time of purchase, which appears to be more beneficial than having it added after the fact?

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I would be more worried about using a Tesla body shop than an independent. The Tesla SC’s here in Houston do a lot of poor and sloppy work, and I would expect their poor management and lack of pride in workmanship extends to their body shops, especially their knack for redefining what is considered good fit and finish and what is “normal” for functioning components.

 

[Bill22]

Sorry about the accident and glad to hear everyone is ok. In December I hit a buck causing a total loss on the car (2015 70D, 215k) also with the free charging...very similar damage to your car. Don't worry, the buck was fine, in fact he didn't even fall over. It took until last week for the body shop (via State Farm) to even look at it. I had no problem driving it for the last 4 months. Settlement was for $24,675 but I still owe about $16,000 on a loan which means by law Pennsylvania requires State Farm to take the car and it can no longer be registered.

2 options at this point:
1. cancel the claim and repair the car myself. Are there enough Model S's out there in salvage yards? (needs hood, front driver panel, coolant for battery, headlight)
2. buy used same year same model using my down payment of $8,000? I am seeing several in area for around $30,000

Hope this info helps and good luck!

 

[TLLMRRJ]

The comps being $30k didn’t help you to get $30k?

 

[ucmndd]

The comps being $30k didn’t help you to get $30k?

I doubt there are very many direct comps with 200,000+ miles

 

[jeremymc7]

In my case there was no comps with 1500 miles and 6 months old. Let alone with FSD on it as well.

 

[houstonian]

Update - the carrier decided to total. Working on seeing if there's any leeway but so far it is not looking good.

Thanks to the advice here I submitted a copy of the window sticker showing the various packages included with the vehicle (their 3rd party comp supplier did not have the correct packages coded into their model) as well as documentation for the MCU1 → MCU2 upgrade as well.

Updated comp report expected back next week.

Uncertain how they'll value FUSC but note this promotion from Tesla offering a $5k trade in bonus specifically for FUSC.

If comps on the market are what determine the value, one wonders what could be more authoritative in determining value than a direct and open offer from the manufacture specifically addressing the value they assign to buy back the feature: $5,000.

I would be more worried about using a Tesla body shop than an independent.

Thanks - reached out to a well reviewed one earlier today. Figured it can't hurt to submit the pics and see if they can do a quick and dirty guess on repair costs.

Sorry about the accident and glad to hear everyone is ok...

Hope this info helps and good luck!

Thanks Bill - had north of 200k on my car and luckily it only took SF about 3 business days to follow up.

As I mentioned upthread, my tremendous preference is for the car to be repaired but if that option is truly off the table, then I've got to figure out a way to demonstrate to the carrier the FMV of the car with the major sticking points being: FSD, FUSC, MCU2, and premium connectivity.

The comps being $30k didn’t help you to get $30k?

Curious here too.

I doubt there are very many direct comps with 200,000+ miles

Yeah - paucity of data here.

 

[dannycamps]

I assumed the car would be totaled based on your description. Sorry to hear that but always good to hear that the Tesla did its job and everyone walked away without injury.

When my first Tesla was totaled in an accident, the front end was very badly damaged but the cabin looked untouched. It really is amazing how safe the cars are.

As far as valuation goes, be sure to provide your MVPA if you have it. Certain options that were paid at the time of purchase (e.g. premium audio, certain pain colors, wheels, etc...) can be factored in even if they are now included as standard.

 

[blkswn]

Update - the carrier decided to total. Working on seeing if there's any leeway but so far it is not looking good.

Thanks to the advice here I submitted a copy of the window sticker showing the various packages included with the vehicle (their 3rd party comp supplier did not have the correct packages coded into their model) as well as documentation for the MCU1 → MCU2 upgrade as well.

Updated comp report expected back next week.

Uncertain how they'll value FUSC but note this promotion from Tesla offering a $5k trade in bonus specifically for FUSC.

If comps on the market are what determine the value, one wonders what could be more authoritative in determining value than a direct and open offer from the manufacture specifically addressing the value they assign to buy back the feature: $5,000.

Thanks - reached out to a well reviewed one earlier today. Figured it can't hurt to submit the pics and see if they can do a quick and dirty guess on repair costs.

Thanks Bill - had north of 200k on my car and luckily it only took SF about 3 business days to follow up.

As I mentioned upthread, my tremendous preference is for the car to be repaired but if that option is truly off the table, then I've got to figure out a way to demonstrate to the carrier the FMV of the car with the major sticking points being: FSD, FUSC, MCU2, and premium connectivity.

Curious here too.

Yeah - paucity of data here.

Please let us know how it all plays out. I countered the initial settlement offer on mine and waiting to hear back.

 

[jeremymc7]

Based on my limited personal experience was and still is one of the more highly scrapped cars. Insurance know it’s a Pandora’s box on never end unfortunately seen additional costs. Long parts availably and limited quality repair shops just makes things works.

I’ll just got back to what All told me. You won’t get anywhere near what you paid even though car for 6 months and under 1500 miles. They said they were paying me more than I paid and were coming the loaner for more than the policy since it took them so long. They also provided a loaner worth more than the Tesla. Best part was I could to apply for all the fed, state, and electric company rebates. I make thousands on that total.

Far from everyone else’s experience but I overloaded them with a paperwork, argued everything, had dash cam footage - negating “witnesses”.

Pretty painless and Inhad a massive check almost immediately.

 

[ThuLe]

Hope this helps... Total loss on my Tesla. Valuation came really low and the adjuster wouldn't take into consideration my purchased FSD and the free lifetime charging. Reached out to lawyer but they would charge $10-15K and they don't think they can get much more than the insurance valuation to offset the lawyer charge. I went to court and filed a civil case myself for the additional $30k amount to cover current FSD $15k + $10k estimate for the free charging (I calculated how many more mile I will put in the car times the current charge rate $ at supercharger station) + $5k misc not covered in the valuation report. Once the civil claim case filed with a court date, Insurance reached out to me right away and settled out of court the amount I asked for... and asked to dismiss the case as soon as possible

 

[IL_TFan]

@ThuLe, I am in a similar situation where somebody rear ended our vehicle and the insurance is not considering purchased FSD (They keep showing me FSD Compatible and say they are compensating for that less than 2k) and the free supercharing lifetime. Thank you for your post which is helpful for proceeding in that direction. May I know if you picked up your total loss check and then filed a case or prior to picking up you filed the case. Also, did you have to go through bringing in an additional adjuster to prove your point? Would appreciate a quick reply.

 

[IL_TFan]

Hope this helps... Total loss on my Tesla. Valuation came really low and the adjuster wouldn't take into consideration my purchased FSD and the free lifetime charging. Reached out to lawyer but they would charge $10-15K and they don't think they can get much more than the insurance valuation to offset the lawyer charge. I went to court and filed a civil case myself for the additional $30k amount to cover current FSD $15k + $10k estimate for the free charging (I calculated how many more mile I will put in the car times the current charge rate $ at supercharger station) + $5k misc not covered in the valuation report. Once the civil claim case filed with a court date, Insurance reached out to me right away and settled out of court the amount I asked for... and asked to dismiss the case as soon as possible

Hope you are able to respond to my request.

 

[IL_TFan]

Hope you are able to respond to my request.

If easy to do personal message, you can do it at [email protected]

 

[ThuLe]

@ThuLe, I am in a similar situation where somebody rear ended our vehicle and the insurance is not considering purchased FSD (They keep showing me FSD Compatible and say they are compensating for that less than 2k) and the free supercharing lifetime. Thank you for your post which is helpful for proceeding in that direction. May I know if you picked up your total loss check and then filed a case or prior to picking up you filed the case. Also, did you have to go through bringing in an additional adjuster to prove your point? Would appreciate a quick reply.

I did not agreed to the total lost settlement payout and asked for adjustment but the adjuster refused so I went ahead to file with the court for the difference. After they settled out of court, they cut the check for the total amount (original valuation + additional amount). Don't bother to bring in the additional adjuster/appraiser, appears they are in it together and on top of that they will charge you ~$800 just to provide similar report as the insurance's appraiser. You can prove your point yourself. Just print out the $15k price from Tesla app and do your own calculation for the free charge of you have that (estimate how many more miles you will keep your car and multiply .41).

 

[IL_TFan]

@ThuLe, Thank you for this information. Appreciate your response.