Performance vs Long Range AWD: Operating Cost…

[shephard357]

Hello All,

I came across this club while doing some research on Teslas. I‘m looking to buy a Model 3 in the next few months and want to make sure I make and educated decision. One of my main concerns is maintenance costs. I am considering getting a Performance model but am concerned that there may be more costs in maintaining the vehicle. In my experience, performance parts usually equate to less life and higher costs.

Anyone with a performance model 3 have any input on this? Any issues with the life of suspension parts (control arms, ball joints, etc)? What about the cost for the annual brake lubrication…what does that run? (I live in northern VA and we get snow). Any other issues with a performance model that might have added costs (other than the price tag)?

I don’t mind spending the extra few thousand up front, provided its not going to come with a bunch of extra maintenance over time…

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[jjrandorin]

I do not believe there is any difference at all in the maintenance costs of these two vehicles, because they are virtually the same car. There isnt any motor maintenance, no transmission, etc.

The difference in cost is going to be things like tires and suspension, which you both can control by changing the tires / rims, and / or suspension.

The brakes are different on a performance model 3 but I dont think there is any such thing as an "annual brake lubrication". You dont use the brakes on these cars as much as you do on an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle, due to regenerative braking, so you need bi annual brake checks on both of them, but I havent heard of "annual brake lube" on a Model 3.

TL ; DR -- the costs are going to be virtually identical between the two.

I guess I should add that my model 3 performance is 3 years old, and what I have spent on maintenance items so far is a 12V battery replacement, and tires.

 

[TacoSteve]

Hello All,

I came across this club while doing some research on Teslas. I‘m looking to buy a Model 3 in the next few months and want to make sure I make and educated decision. One of my main concerns is maintenance costs. I am considering getting a Performance model but am concerned that there may be more costs in maintaining the vehicle. In my experience, performance parts usually equate to less life and higher costs.

Anyone with a performance model 3 have any input on this? Any issues with the life of suspension parts (control arms, ball joints, etc)? What about the cost for the annual brake lubrication…what does that run? (I live in northern VA and we get snow). Any other issues with a performance model that might have added costs (other than the price tag)?

I don’t mind spending the extra few thousand up front, provided its not going to come with a bunch of extra maintenance over time…

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Nothing different that would make a substantial difference in Operating costs. The brake system on the Performance model is more expensive to maintain just due to the parts being more expensive, but unless you are really beating on it you'll most likely never change the Rotors and pads will last years. We are talking a few hundred dollars difference here on something you may never have to touch.

Only other consideration is the P model is slightly lower, larger wheels and performance tires, so it'll be less ideal for winter conditions. That be solved with a winter set of tires though.

If you can afford it and like a really fast car, go for the Performance.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

I do not believe there is any difference at all in the maintenance costs of these two vehicles, because they are virtually the same car. There isnt any motor maintenance, no transmission, etc.

The difference in cost is going to be things like tires and suspension, which you both can control by changing the tires / rims, and / or suspension.

The brakes are different on a performance model 3 but I dont think there is any such thing as an "annual brake lubrication". You dont use the brakes on these cars as much as you do on an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle, due to regenerative braking, so you need bi annual brake checks on both of them, but I havent heard of "annual brake lube" on a Model 3.

TL ; DR -- the costs are going to be virtually identical between the two.

I guess I should add that my model 3 performance is 3 years old, and what I have spent on maintenance items so far is a 12V battery replacement, and tires.

I agree with most of this, but since Teslas tend to eat a lot of tires, the single biggest difference between regular and performance maintenance costs will be the larger (by default from the factory) performance tires which will cost more.

 

[tm1v2]

Tires for larger wheels cost more. You can fit as small as 18" wheels on a Model 3 Performance though, for the one time (hopefully) cost of buying the wheels. Teslas (and probably other heavy, large battery, powerful EVs) tend to wear through tires quicker than the ICE cars many of us came from.

Probably the performance brake pads cost more (I haven't checked) but as @jjrandorin said, brake pads should last you a very long time on a street-driven EV. Got about 120k miles out of the original front pads on my 2013 S P85. Original rear pads aren't worn out yet. That car is heavier and almost as powerful as the Model 3 Performance.

So, yeah, don't worry about maintenance costs besides tires. If tire costs are a concern and you drive a lot of miles, get smaller diameter wheels. Plus the extra sidewall will smooth out the ride a bit and protect better from potholes (maybe or maybe not a concern for you).

 

[gearchruncher]

Probably the performance brake pads cost more (I haven't checked)

They are WAY more. About $1K for a set of performance pads from Tesla, vs $200 for the normal brakes, and the aftermarket now has normal Model 3 pads for about $50. Nobody is selling cheap aftermarket pads for the performance rotors yet.

If you actually track the car, you will wear these out. If you don't, you never will and it's irrelevant.

As everyone says, Tires are a main cost, but I want to point out that there are two other costs- energy and depreciation. The P cars probably depreciate faster (Tesla always has something newer and faster on the horizon), and if you drive hard and use sticky/wide tires, you will use way more energy.

I'm at 2X Tesla's rated energy in my M3P over 13K miles. Tesla rates 250 wh/mi for an AWD, which is about $300 per 10K miles at average USA electric rates. So drive it hard, and you're paying $300 more per year just for the "fuel." Double that if you are only going to charge at superchargers.

 

[VanGuy]

Performance will cost more. Nothing substantial but will be more.

Efficiency - It's not quite as efficient so you'll pay a touch more for the same distance driven. Depending on how you charge this could be virtually zero.

Wheels/Tires - Size - Larger wheels = more expensive tires to replace.

Wheels/Tires - Type - Performance comes with summer tires, if you need winters you'll need to spend extra on another set of at least tires, but likely a whole second set of wheels/tires. Moderate expense, but could be a requirement wherever you live anyway.

Wheels/Tires - Wear - Performance has Track mode. If you take your car to the track, this is likely enough to sway you. But if you're at the track, you're gonna be needing more wheels/tires. So this isn't really applicable if you're not doing this.

Brakes - The brake pads are larger and more expensive. This is however likely never to be much of an impact, unless you're taking the car literally on the track, you MIGHT go through 2 sets in the vehicles lifetime. Very small cost difference in the grand scheme.

Brakes - Maintenance - I am not sure what the impact will be, but the manual does indicate that the Performance requires brake lube service yearly. This is likely mostly for folks not using their brakes at all. I do notice that the pads were sticking during the first big snow storms we had this year so this may end up being a real thing.

Other than that, there's not going to be any differences in cost as the two cars are nearly identical so there won't be any real additional wear on anything due to additional power. The Performance also isn't like...monumentally faster than the LR. It is faster off the line and that gap decreases as you accelerate. It has a higher top speed but likely not going to notice that outside of maybe a track anyway.

 

[shephard357]

Thanks to everyone for all the input.

I suppose that, besides having a car that can run to 60 in the low 3’s, I was considering the Performance because I sort of thought it would depreciate less and not more…given that there are simply less of them. Maybe I’m wrong on that.

So from what I’ve read, if you live in the north where snow (and thus salt) is a thing, you need to clean and lubricate the brakes every year or 2 (Probably due to low cycles on the brakes from regen) I have no clue what they charge for this so if anyone knows, please feel free to share.

Regarding the cars being nearly ”identical”, is that to say that the suspension parts are basically the same?...or to put it another way, the performance model does not have “higher performance” suspension parts?

As an example, my old BMW didn’t go 80K miles before it needed control arms, thrust arms, etc…all the bushings and balljoints were toast and flopping around. It was the ultimate driving machine, but that tight suspension wore out quick. Just curious if thats the case with the Performance (or any model for that matter). Anyone have those issues with their model 3

Thanks again?

 

[shephard357]

…ALSO

i don’t anticipate replacing the tires with another set of Pirelli’s…I’d probably go with a Michelin or something like that…I priced some 20 inch Y rated Michelin A/S sports…not too terrible…less than $1300 for a set and they are warranties to 45K miles. Anyone go that route (or similar) when putting on new tires?

 

[gearchruncher]

Regarding the cars being nearly ”identical”, is that to say that the suspension parts are basically the same?...or to put it another way, the performance model does not have “higher performance” suspension parts?

Shocks, springs, sway bars are different. All other components are identical. Sway bars and springs don't wear. If you ever need to replace the shocks, they might be a few bucks more, but they mount identically to all Model 3's.

There are some bushings on Model 3's that some people have worn out or torn. Probably depends on how you drive. They aren't different on the P.

I was considering the Performance because I sort of thought it would depreciate less and not more…given that there are simply less of them. Maybe I’m wrong on that.

You'll have to do your own research, but given Tesla can turn any model 3 into a 3P with some brakes, shocks, springs, and sways, and the rest is software, this isn't exactly a rare car, and on average the performance models of cars depreciate fastest because enthusiasts always want the newest fastest thing. You don't buy an M3 to save on depreciation over a standard BMW 3. Even if depreciation is the same %, you lost more on a base car that cost more (and sales tax, registration, insurance, etc).

 

[shephard357]

You'll have to do your own research, but given Tesla can turn any model 3 into a 3P with some brakes, shocks, springs, and sways, and the rest is software, this isn't exactly a rare car, and on average the performance models of cars depreciate fastest because enthusiasts always want the newest fastest thing.

Thanks for the info on the suspension…that is helpful.

Regarding the input on the depreciation, I get your point. I suppose I didn’t think of it that way. I certainly don’t consider myself and “enthusiast”, and therefore don’t think like one…what you say, in that context, makes sense.

Regarding resale value…right now, its seems pretty nuts across the board. Every used Tesla that I pull up is selling for considerably more than what I would expect…I’ve seen 3-4 year old cars with 30k-40k that seem to be selling for maybe $6k-$9k below new…that, to me, is just odd. I can’t figure out why someone would pay $47K for a car with 30K miles thats 3 1/2 years old when they could bus a new one for $54K ( or there abouts)

I’ve never owned a car that retained value like that in the used market

 

[gearchruncher]

I can’t figure out why someone would pay $47K for a car with 30K miles thats 3 1/2 years old when they could bus a new one for $54K ( or there abouts)

I’ve never owned a car that retained value like that in the used market

Two things: You can't just buy a Tesla right now. You may need to wait 6 months. Hence used ones are worth a lot.

Second, the WHOLE used car market is crazy right now. It's not just Teslas. The 2008 car I bought in 2014 is worth more now than I paid for it.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks for the info on the suspension…that is helpful.

Regarding the input on the depreciation, I get your point. I suppose I didn’t think of it that way. I certainly don’t consider myself and “enthusiast”, and therefore don’t think like one…what you say, in that context, makes sense.

Regarding resale value…right now, its seems pretty nuts across the board. Every used Tesla that I pull up is selling for considerably more than what I would expect…I’ve seen 3-4 year old cars with 30k-40k that seem to be selling for maybe $6k-$9k below new…that, to me, is just odd. I can’t figure out why someone would pay $47K for a car with 30K miles thats 3 1/2 years old when they could bus a new one for $54K ( or there abouts)

I’ve never owned a car that retained value like that in the used market

Late model used teslas are selling for MORE than new right now. Throw BMW depreciation out the window. They wont always be selling for more than new, but model 3s have done very well depreciation wise, even before this crazy car market.

 

[jackmott]

The only substantive difference is that each tire change will cost ~$400 more per set due to being on 20" wheels, and likely more often since the performance comes with softer tires. Of course you could change that if desired. First thing I did was sell the 20" wheels and tires for some 18" ones.

 

[ODWms]

I just replaced my first set of Michelin 20s last week. They cost me $1629, out the door at Tesla. Interestingly, every tire place I called was more, and way more, than Tesla. One place I called was $2120 out the door for the same tires. I have never, ever experienced this at any car dealership.

 

[gearchruncher]

every tire place I called was more, and way more, than Tesla.

Discount Tire is $1564 before tax but after mounting and balancing for the stock tires. Tire rack is the same price, installed in your driveway.

It's awesome that Tesla is basically the same price, but I wouldn't say they are cheaper.

 

[Trbotime]

Shocks, springs, sway bars are different. All other components are identical. Sway bars and springs don't wear. If you ever need to replace the shocks, they might be a few bucks more, but they mount identically to all Model 3's.

What is the difference between the shocks on the performance and long range?

 

[gearchruncher]

What is the difference between the shocks on the performance and long range?

Not 100% Sure. The springs are different for sure, and Tesla only sells shock/spring assemblies, so there is a different PN there.

 

[tm1v2]

What is the difference between the shocks on the performance and long range?

@Trbotime Subjectively the difference is nothing. I am guessing only the springs are actually different. Even the springs aren't much different, just a tad lower, maybe they're a little stiffer but not by a lot.

Even if the shocks are actually different it's not a meaningful difference, e.g. if you aren't happy with LR AWD damping, you won't be happy with P damping either. When I test drove them (October 2021 builds) the ride and handling differences felt exactly in line with the wheel+tire difference, nothing more. That IS a meaningful difference, but changing wheels and tires is trivial, don't pick LR vs P based on that.

However if you like to drive hard...the P's Track Mode is pretty key in my opinion. The nannies can be intrusive in normal driving mode on my M3P, and I assume they're the same on an LR AWD. Plus the extra strong regen available with Track Mode is really nice when tearing up a twisty road.

If I didn't have Track Mode I would consider the MPP Party Box an essential mod for this car (for my driving).

 

[gearchruncher]

However if you like to drive hard...the P's Track Mode is pretty key in my opinion. The nannies can be intrusive in normal driving mode on my M3P, and I assume they're the same on an LR AWD. Plus the extra strong regen available with Track Mode is really nice when tearing up a twisty road.

If you're triggering the nannies during "normal driving" on the road, you're driving like a menace, taking corners way too fast and are right on the edge of traction. Track mode doesn't change anything when you're doing straight line acceleration.

Reminder that track mode disables all sorts of stuff in the car like cruise control, AP, and navigating, and requires you to dig into a menu every time you put the car in drive, so you're not going to be driving around in this mode on your day to day driving.

If you've never had a car to the track, you don't have a need for track mode, and once you have a car on the track you know what is reasonable on the street.