sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Hands at 9 & 3 instead of 10 & 2, because it’s truly life and death. /sHalf the people I see already do not use turn signals, Tesla or not. I just wonder what kids are being taught in driver Ed.
You can install our site as a web app on your iOS device by utilizing the Add to Home Screen feature in Safari. Please see this thread for more details on this.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Hands at 9 & 3 instead of 10 & 2, because it’s truly life and death. /sHalf the people I see already do not use turn signals, Tesla or not. I just wonder what kids are being taught in driver Ed.
Sure there is: often I don't signal when changing lanes because if I do, the A-hole I am moving in front of will speed up to cut me off.Not tons of benefit to not signaling.
I think I understand the opinions here then. I can see why some people think it is very uncommon. In my brief observations yesterday I saw compliance to be very high! Will keep looking though!Sure there is: often I don't signal when changing lanes because if I do, the A-hole I am moving in front of will speed up to cut me off.
Looks super nice. Stock springs or lowered?Hey I love my 22’ M3LR/boost! (Hw3 and USS and already 576km range..not the reduced).
I run 20” v1 rims/tires, black tint, gun metal decals, carbon fibre interior trim. To me handling is incredible as is the power
I have no inclination to upgrade to the new highland until I’ve driven this baby for 150k or 4-5 yrs
I’m sure the new revised specs are an improvement and I look forward to testing one out regardless. Now if they introduce a Perf with ludicrous…hmmm…maybe something to consider.
View attachment 970088
Whether we like it or not, it's a forced "innovation" that they're pushing to get people used to it for future applications, i.e. robo taxi and such. At some point they'll be able to recede the wheel/yoke back into the dash when using FSD. Stalks have to go away for that option.It Depends on whether the stalkless 'features' (such as they are) are available with both versions. The yoke has the nominal advantage that it doesn't block the screen but there is no clear advantage to the stalkless design that I can discern and there's the potential disadvantage that it may harm resale value. (There's no one that will decide not to buy a car that has stalks but there are plenty of people who would decide not to buy a car that doesn't have stalks.)
Given the choice I would bet most (80-90%+) people would opt for the stalks.
The examples above actually were progress. Auto over manual allows one to multitask while driving and results in smoother shifts, comfort and less transmission damage.Seatbelts used to be optional, so was auto transmission, just to name a couple of examples.
Neither of which were "popular" when they were initially released
However, being different but not better is not an advantage, as opposed to being different because it is better. Turn signals by steering wheel buttons instead of a stalk is an example of the former, not the latter.I've said it before. If we all had grown up learning how to drive in stalkless vehicles, there would be no controversy.
I'm not here as a promoter of stalkless. I don't own one, haven't driven one myself.The examples above actually were progress. Auto over manual allows one to multitask while driving and results in smoother shifts, comfort and less transmission damage.
Seatbelts ..well …proven safety. No one can discount this ever.
The issue many seem to wonder is whether the yoke /stalkless are in fact ‘better’.
Example..what if yokes were the standard for decades and all of a sudden a wheel came out? Functionally superior, easier to control, easier grip, better control in emergency situations…list goes on.
Instead of all the negativity, I’d be willing to wager the wheel would be touted as a genius move.
Stalks I guess it’s again a matter of functionality. Going from a single move function (flick up or down while holding the wheel) to a dual function swipe with a diff hand while holding the wheel…is this progress? It’s cool, sexy and new. But reverse it again. If it were always stalkless and stalks were introduced to make a 2 function process into 1…I bet you way less pushback. Nothing to do with dangerous or not. Just whether it’s necessary.
I agree progress takes time to adapt to. Somethings are simply not progress as opposed to backward.
Once full FSD, sure makes total sense to have no stalks or a retractable yoke. For now, it’s taking away simplicity for ?
For all those who love stalkless and yoke …hey enjoy it
Functionality: How is taking your hand off the wheel, or at the very least, losing grip with the wheel, to move your hand to the stalk and push it, better than simply taking your thumb and pushing a turn signal button?
Definitely not without the !A yolk would not have been possible
Just because something is new doesn't mean it's not stupid....e.g. this on hyundai's new santa fe.The examples above actually were progress. Auto over manual allows one to multitask while driving and results in smoother shifts, comfort and less transmission damage.
Seatbelts ..well …proven safety. No one can discount this ever.
The issue many seem to wonder is whether the yoke /stalkless are in fact ‘better’.
Example..what if yokes were the standard for decades and all of a sudden a wheel came out? Functionally superior, easier to control, easier grip, better control in emergency situations…list goes on.
Instead of all the negativity, I’d be willing to wager the wheel would be touted as a genius move.
Stalks I guess it’s again a matter of functionality. Going from a single move function (flick up or down while holding the wheel) to a dual function swipe with a diff hand while holding the wheel…is this progress? It’s cool, sexy and new. But reverse it again. If it were always stalkless and stalks were introduced to make a 2 function process into 1…I bet you way less pushback. Nothing to do with dangerous or not. Just whether it’s necessary.
I agree progress takes time to adapt to. Somethings are simply not progress as opposed to backward.
Once full FSD, sure makes total sense to have no stalks or a retractable yoke. For now, it’s taking away simplicity for ?
For all those who love stalkless and yoke …hey enjoy it
Here's a simple example. Remember all the different cars you've gotten into and couldn't immediately figure out what turns on the headlights, or which button(s) or levers are used to run the wipers? I sure can.How is taking your hand off the wheel, or at the very least, losing grip with the wheel, to move your hand to the stalk and push it, better than simply taking your thumb and pushing a turn signal button?
Agreed. And how is it diff pushing buttons? Well for one the wheel moves and the turn signals move with it lol.Here's a simple example. Remember all the different cars you've gotten into and couldn't immediately figure out what turns on the headlights, or which button(s) or levers are used to run the wipers? I sure can.
Now, remember all the times you have been in different vehicles and didn't know exactly how to indicate a turn?
I'm actually profoundly lazy when I drive, always driving with one hand. So I could probably tolerate these buttons more than most, but I'm left wondering why or how this is progress...
I bet a lot of people complaining about the turn signal button actually do not use turn signal at all. LOL
People always complain no matter what.
Yup!Whether we like it or not, it's a forced "innovation" that they're pushing to get people used to it for future applications, i.e. robo taxi and such
This is a quick aside about an issue ultimately not relevant to a Tesla debate, but what you say about auto transmission was true for most of the history of that form of transmission, but is no longer accurate. My understanding is that modern auto transmissions have minimized energy loss and perfected gear selection relative to driving needs in any given situation so that they are more efficient for ICE vehicles than any person now can achieve with a manual transmission. Of course, what is even better is EV technology where multiple forward gear selection is not even needed.[…]
Auto trans: Has it's positives and negatives. Worse gas mileage, much added weight and an entire additional system that needs maintenance. Some would say being able to multitask while driving is not a good thing.
[…]
If you’re going to be a devil’s advocate you need to have solid arguments!I'm not here as a promoter of stalkless. I don't own one, haven't driven one myself.
I'm being more of a devil's advocate than anything else.
Auto trans: Has it's positives and negatives. Worse gas mileage, much added weight and an entire additional system that needs maintenance. Some would say being able to multitask while driving is not a good thing.
Seatbelts: Agreed, safety add, even if some people are dumb enough to not to use it.
Functionality: How is taking your hand off the wheel, or at the very least, losing grip with the wheel, to move your hand to the stalk and push it, better than simply taking your thumb and pushing a turn signal button? Sure, right now, apparently people have a fit about using them in roundabouts. I drive a roundabout every day and I don't see the issue. 1) what percentage of your driving is in roundabouts? 2) what percentage of other drivers actually use their signal in roundabouts? 3) Steer-by-wire will make it a non-issue soon enough.
I know you mentioned the gear selector on the screen: Again, the car chooses for you most of the time, and for the times it doesn't, you're not moving, so what's an extra half second? Seriously, the biggest gripe I hear about that is during 3-point turns. Really? How many 3-pt turns have you done in your lifetime? After the one we do during our DL road test, I can count the times I've done them on one hand.
It's not about function. If it were, there would be more problems.
It's about competence and comfort level. People don't like change.
Even if stalks vs stalkless is a wash, not better, not worse, people would still b!tch about it simply because it's new and different from what they're used to.
Steering wheels were round because there was no power steering assistance, so you had to actually use force and effort to turn. And they were much larger for a long time because that extra circumference added leverage that was needed.
A yolk would not have been possible. Plus a circle was cheaper to manufacture.
So other innovations allow for progress in adjacent areas.
Stalkless was not even possible pre-computer or advanced electronics.
Seatbelts weren't mandatory before higher powered engines, and lighter building materials.
And now auto transmissions allow every idiot on the road to be looking at their phones. So hey, no innovation is 100% for the better. But it's progress.