My Tesla Model S P85 Accident - Is it REPAIRABLE or TOTALED?

[Velo1]

First, I hope no one was hurt, at least seriously. No expert, but I'd say totaled. If it was mine, I'd want it totaled so I could replace it. If it is totaled, what about salvaging the battery? Not sure what I'd do with the battery, but it must have some value.

 

[dvn222]

Thank you for those great tips Glenn!

At this point, I think I'd rather have the car totaled than waiting 2-3 months for a repaired front-end damaged / airbag deployed Tesla. I will try have the service center weigh in, but it's difficult given the fact that they'd probably want to see it in person.

You also want to gather evidence about the fair-market value of your Model S before the accident. How old was it and how many miles are on it? You want to look for comparable sales if possible, trying to find the lowest ones possible.

I received it on November 26, 2013 and has about 800 miles. Specs: Tesla Model S P85, with Pearl White Paint, All Glass Panoramic Roof, Performance Seats, Carbon Fiber Decor w/ match Yacht Carbon Fiber Floor, Tech Package, Smart Suspension, Parking Sensors, Fob Lamps, Premium Interior Package... total = $108,670.00

Side Note... glad I got GAP insurance.

I would then try to get some information about the salvage value of the Tesla (which might be pretty high if the battery pack is intact). You want the salvage value to be high.

The battery is still intact.

Does anyone have idea of how to find out the salvage value given the specs above?

 

[bluetinc]

DVN,

It looks totaled to me also.

Just a word of caution. I believe the box being pointed at near the rear of the passenger wheel is the DC-DC converter (with the orange cables). It was referred to as a battery cooler, but in reality it takes in a raw 400V DC feed from the battery. A very high level of caution should be used with any of the High Voltage parts in the car, and the car should have it validated that the High Voltage Pack has been disconnected for everyone safety.

Peter

 

[GlennAlanBerry]

@Velo1 If it is a TLV, then the insurance company gets the vehicle, which they would dispose of for its salvage value. You can't have your cake and eat it too...

 

[100thMonkey]

I've seen new cars totaled with a lot less apparent damage. as folks have said, it did it's job protecting you and has lots of fractures to prove it. It's hard to imagine anyone every being able to get that car back to a fully functional form. Also, intense impacts are not good for batteries. there is untold hidden damage. IMHO, do what you can to hit the reset button and start over with a brand new Tesla S, they only keep getting better!

 

[lolachampcar]

One interesting approach insurance companies appear to take is to low ball the initial damage assessment then let the shop "go to work on them" with supplemental adjustments. One recent example had the initial estimate at less than $8K with a final bill over $22K. There were at least four supplemental adjustments (search I'm in mourning on TMC). This appears to either be complete ignorance/incompetence on the part of the insurance company adjuster or a calculated method of doing business so as to slow the process down and manage losses. I do not think insurance companies are stupid.

The down side is that it is difficult to get the insurance company to have a reasonable PD discussion on day one when you can make the call to sell it as is or have it repaired. An honest assessment of the situation might open non-traditional avenues for lowering the net loss but, without those honest conversations, you're making decisions based on garbage in, garbage out.


I believe there is another thread on the forum where the owner had a lesser sub-set of the damage you have and the repairs were north of $40K (if memory serves me).

 

[Doug_G]

I can tell you, I wouldn't want that car back. I'd want to get a new one.

 

[dvn222]

Update: Tesla does not sell firewalls to even Certified Repair Shops. (If you look at video, the mechanic points out the ~1" crack in the firewall). I wonder if that will make the car totaled.

On a different note, Bill/ Glenn, how do you calculate loss of use?

 

[Canuck]

It is pretty simple. From a claims adjuster and auto insurance perspective, the total repair costs, plus loss of use during the repairs have to be more expensive than the fair market value of the vehicle minus the salvage value. It really comes down to dollars and cents.

If you really want the car to be a TLV, tell the adjuster that right up front. Then help supply documentation to make it easier for the adjuster to make that decision and sell it to his superiors. I would get a repair estimate from a good shop (to negotiate down from), and I would also try to the local Tesla Service Center to weigh in on the expense and difficulty of the repairs due to the structural damage. Perhaps the SC might think that it is impossible to economically repair the car.

I would then try to get some information about the salvage value of the Tesla (which might be pretty high if the battery pack is intact). You want the salvage value to be high.

You also want to gather evidence about the fair-market value of your Model S before the accident. How old was it and how many miles are on it? You want to look for comparable sales if possible, trying to find the lowest ones possible.

Good advice, plus there's a further head of damages called "accelerated depreciation". You can read about the nature of this head of damages, known as "one of the largest hidden secrets in the car insurance industry" here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...full-value-for-my-crashed-car/article9454999/


You should let them know that if they decide to repair it, you will also be pursuing a claim for accelerated depreciation, since that fact can assist in having it written off.

 

[lolachampcar]

Diminished Value may be similar if not the same as accelerated depreciation.

Loss of Use or LoU is what you have to do to make up for your car not being available. In my wife's case, it would have been a rental while her car was being repaired. In the OP's case, it would be a rental from the accident onwards although some states do not recognize LoU once a vehicle is totaled.

Florida provides guidance in section 501.2.h of the uniform jury instructions-
the measure of damage is-
"the difference between the value of the () immediately before the incident and its value immediately afterward." This is the portion of the instructions that support an "as is" sale.
or
"the reasonable cost of repair, if it was practicable to repair the (), with due allowance for any difference between its value immediately before the incident and its value after repair." This instruction specifically addresses diminished value of a repaired car.

Loss of Use is contained in-
"You shall also take into consideration any loss to claimant by being deprived of the use of () during the period reasonably required for its [replacement][repair]." Thus a replacement car of similar value while yours is being fixed is a valid claim as would a rental while your new MS comes in.

 

[Seven7]

I think your safe to go ahead and order a new Model S. My car got hit in almost the same spot but on the drivers side- but it wasn't even close to that bad, no airbags deployed, no "firewall" damage, for the most part I just had sheet metal damage and some suspension parts. The final bill from the Tesla approved body shop was $45k
Your car looks way worse than mine. Sorry about your car, glad you weren't seriously hurt. I would talk to an attorney if the insurance co won't total it.
Don't shy away from a Tesla approved shop, in my experience they charge more than other shops and do superior work on Teslas. The techs at these shop are required to go to Tesla training class so they get the cars they are entrusted with back into pre collision condition. You don't want to take your Tesla to a non approved shop.

 

[Seven7]

If you want to take the worry about a disreputable shop, have a service center estimate the repair/loss. That can be done, right?

Not exactly, they could tell you what parts you will need, but not the amount of hours needed to put them on or straighten the A pillar on a frame machine, paint, body shop stuff.

 

[lolachampcar]

Joe,

Yours is a nice comparable repair as it is less than the OP's damage and sets a floor of $45K and three months to repair.

 

[Seven7]

When you look closley at the pics, notice how the heat exchangers and a/c equipment are (for the most part) undamaged, but just above them it gets ugly quick.

 

[GlennAlanBerry]

Most car insurance policies have guidelines for rental coverage/ loss of use for a policy. Quite often it is something like $50/day for 30 days, but you should check your policy. Claims adjusters have some latitude in this area (and they can be more flexible when the liability for an accident is on someone else, since they know they will likely get their money back from subrogation). In any case, most adjusters are probably going to balk at someone renting a Tesla for $500/day, even though that may seem morally correct.

Based on what the OP said about the accident (being the "last car" in a three car accident), he might be partially liable for the collision (since he was following too closely). But I did not take the claim, and I don't know any of the details of how the accident happened.

 

[dgroe]

As a Model S owner that is simply trying to purchase a couple of cosmetic plastic parts, I think Cestevenson's comments may be short-sighted.

I have been informed (much to my COMPLETE surprise), as stated in the initial posting, that Tesla does not sell parts to Owners/Customers.

While "chop-shops" might be a concern, what in the world is going to happen when an owner has a bad "windshield washer motor?" A $10 part that requires $175 in labor to replace at an "authorized" service center?!? I think worrying about chop-shops will be such a minor issue when this draconian policy comes to light!

 

[techmaven]

I learned a bunch about the certification standards for repair for Tesla recently. I think what our preconceived notions on repair and "totaling" will probably have to be adjusted. I hope Tesla produces a blog post about it.

 

[GasDoc]

I'd say it's definitely totalled. Gasdoc's accident was not as severe as this. he got clipped across the front, but it will still declared a total loss. Details on that here: Major accident for me tonight (5/26) (New P85 arrives 7/8))

My car was declared totaled because improper towing technique caused damage to the battery casing.

 

[GasDoc]

Does anyone have idea of how to find out the salvage value given the specs above?

When my car was totaled, they sold me the salvage for a quarter of the settlement. Ex. If the settlement is $100k, you can keep the car (with a salvage title) for accepting $25k less.

In my case, the settlement was $88k. I took $66k, kept the vehicle and sold it for a small profit. BTW, it was repaired, still on the road, and looks great!

 

[cablue]

Mine was just hit and is now at a certified Tesla body shop. My concern is whether it should be totaled or not, also. I just don't know exactly how they determine that. Of course, if there's structural or battery damage, I would assume they would total it. I'm ambivalent about getting a repaired car back. The driver's airbag at steering wheel and feet went off. The front driver's side is crunched. I'm told there are suspension problems there. I'm worried about a conflict of interest between the shop wanting the repair money and the insurance company not wanting to replace the car. Any tips on how to approach this and what to look out for?