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Have you got a screenshot from that time by any chance?
Just to flag up, I'm pretty sure that Tesla's website at some point said, "All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances”. The "almost all circumstances" was something I considered when putting together my case, because in my experience there were quite a few circumstances the hardware limited Autopilot, e.g: Low sun, rain at night, condensation, salt/grit from roads blocking the cameras just over the course of a single journey. This seems to be partly confirmed by what you say above, e.g. Tesla have now added better cameras, heaters & ventilation to HW4. My thinking was that this could demonstrate the hardware wasn't suitable for FSD in "almost all circumstances" and have a legal claim that way.There have been a number of revisions to hardware over the years - the repeater assemblies got redesigned to stop the orange indicator bulb blowing out the feed, HW4 adds heaters and ventilation fans to the B-pillar and front cameras respectively. Cameras are getting better in quality and no doubt the Autopilot computer will be upgraded too. HW4 is not retrofittable to HW3 cars, so these changes are unavailable to anyone who paid for FSD on a pre-Highland Model 3.
Now one could argue that FSD Beta in the States shows that full self driving is possible with this hardware, but I'd suggest that's by no means certain. Elon says a lot of things, very rarely nowadays do these claims or promises seem to hold any water at all.
Well we took delivery of a Standard Range Plus model 3 in August 2019. We too paid £5800 for FSD. At the time I was glad to support the effort. Now in later life I thought the car would one day be able to drive us when we could not ourselves. What really upsets me is that FSD now has not changed at all for several years here in the UK. Just new games and making the text and icons smaller and access to operations requiring more clicks.I'm not planning to publish the Tesla docs, because I don't want to give any reason things could be taken down. If you send me your email address I'm happy to send a redacted one though.
...and will also brake at random moments when it doesn't need to.I think Tesla need to rename full self drive to "will slow down at traffic lights and junctions" for c.£6000
That’s very disappointing to hear.I own a 2015 Model s, and recently rented a 2023 Model 3.
The 2015 Autopilot is better in most respects than the 2023 one. Much less phantom braking for example, and not slowing down for cars that are 50 m+ ahead of me (at city speeds).
Whilst I can see the reason for your frustration/annoyance, so long as they make it clear, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with Tesla specifying that add-on (software) functionality stays with the car rather than the individual who purchased it.“Expected” as in if I want to retain the functionality I have at the moment I have to pay for it again, making my spend on FSD just under £20k over the years for a system that has gone backwards and pretty much none of the promised features are available or satisfactory working in the the UK.
Agreed but the bloody software doesn’t work anywhere near as advertised. I use autopilot every day and it’s absolutely shameful at the moment. On top of that features that I paid for originally have now been removed thanks to vision-only.Whilst I can see the reason for your frustration/annoyance, so long as they make it clear, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with Tesla specifying that add-on (software) functionality stays with the car rather than the individual who purchased it.
I purchased FSD in 2016 and 2019 and now they are expecting me to pay for it again if I purchase Tesla no3. Since the first purchase the system has gone so far backwards I now consider it to be dangerous with its constant vision-only ultra-uber phantom braking issues.
I absolutely feel aggrieved and rightly so.
“Expected” as in if I want to retain the functionality I have at the moment I have to pay for it again, making my spend on FSD just under £20k over the years for a system that has gone backwards and pretty much none of the promised features are available or satisfactory working in the the UK.
The way Tesla have sold FSD, and continue ot do so, is that once you've bought it you've got everything you need for full self driving, once it is available.
There have been a number of revisions to hardware over the years - the repeater assemblies got redesigned to stop the orange indicator bulb blowing out the feed, HW4 adds heaters and ventilation fans to the B-pillar and front cameras respectively. Cameras are getting better in quality and no doubt the Autopilot computer will be upgraded too. HW4 is not retrofittable to HW3 cars, so these changes are unavailable to anyone who paid for FSD on a pre-Highland Model 3.
Now one could argue that FSD Beta in the States shows that full self driving is possible with this hardware, but I'd suggest that's by no means certain. Elon says a lot of things, very rarely nowadays do these claims or promises seem to hold any water at all.
Notwithstanding all of that, if you'd bought FSD on a 2019 car, there's a very good chance - a very high chance in my opinion - that you won't receive FSD beta before the battery warranty expires. Certainly a lot of people will have dropped out of the usual finance cycles without ever realising a benefit from having purchased it. They really shouldn't be allowed to sell it "as is", certainly not in Europe where FSD Beta being allowed is some way off.
Just like the diesel emissions claims there will be mass Tesla lawsuits in the coming years over this.
And they will sugar coat with a model Y if they exchange their S/X for the same price or something reasonable for the buyer. They know what works with customers and though I hate to say this money talks! And if you have trillions it talks loud and clear. Not fair but to an extent fairness depends on your POV.All very manageable for Tesla. Case numbers relatively small by comparison and they have the money to settle in hand.
eh?For the radar point (and USS) points, you are buying a feature not the hardware. The hardware is one means to an end but it’s not actually the feature.
The saying ‘there is more than one way to skin a cat’ couldn’t be more true here.
Back to FSD, U.K. consumer law has your back here, Tesla doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
In my mind there are actually 3 potential ways you could attack the FSD issue in U.K. consumer law. To note these would only apply if you about the car from tesla with FSD or bought FSD after the fact from Tesla. The contract has to have been with Tesla, if you bought it used or or leased it, your contract is with that person.
1) The way the OP did it, successfully arguing a breach of contract.
If you purchased it later where there was no date, you’d probably have to argue those contract terms are unfair and therefore unlawful. You’d also probably have to argue reasonable expectation of ‘soon’ has been breached and that tesla are knowing selling something they cant deliver. They can’t recognise the revenue/profit from your FSD sale which adds to your argument.
2) Distance selling regulations. You have the right to cancel up until 14 days after delivery. FSD is a separate line on the invoice and a distinct software feature of the car which Tesla can easily add or remove and it’s available to purchase as a standalone item.
It hasn’t been delivered yet and therefore you could argue you have the right to cancel under distance selling regulations. This is definitely will be the case if you bought it via the app after the fact. As noted above, you’ve actually got 14 days to cancel after the feature has been released.
3) if you used finance, you may have rights under the consumer credit act and you’ll try and pass the liability to the finance company to provide you a refund. This is usually the route of last resort.
Nope, it’s not the same.eh?
If you buy a vehicle and during the purchase process it says that it has a radar and it's functionality is advertised, but it is then disabled one way - then it is the same as with FSD..