Model Y Alignment & Anxiety-Triggering-Angles on the Steering Wheel

[ACRei]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping I could get your help regarding my Model Y Performance.

I picked up my MYP last April. The steering wheel was off-center to the right. Ironically, my Model 3 looked the same in regards to the off-center steering wheel, so I didn't give it much thought. I thought it was just a Tesla-thing.

After reading about the off-center steering wheel experiences in this forum, I decided to bring it to my nearest service center in for due diligence.

The service center checked and found the front right toe was off by .05.° The improper tire was adjusted from .15° to .10, and the service center centered my steering. Everything looks great now. However, I'm a bit confused about some of the measurements they gave me:

1. I've looked through the Model Y Performance manual (North American version, I'm assuming) and I can't find any stats regarding the factory caster, camber or toe degrees. Do those camber degrees look correct for a Model Y Performance? Are they within spec?
2. Is it normal to have a difference on camber for the front vs rear tires? Driver vs passenger tires?
3. Is it normal to have the differences in caster degrees?

I'm a complete car noob, but I would like to understand what I drive on a daily basis.

Thank you in advance,

 

[ngng]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping I could get your help regarding my Model Y Performance.

I picked up my MYP last April. The steering wheel was off-center to the right. Ironically, my Model 3 looked the same in regards to the off-center steering wheel, so I didn't give it much thought. I thought it was just a Tesla-thing.

After reading about the off-center steering wheel experiences in this forum, I decided to bring it to my nearest service center in for due diligence.

The service center checked and found the front right toe was off by .05.° The improper tire was adjusted from .15° to .10, and the service center centered my steering. Everything looks great now. However, I'm a bit confused about some of the measurements they gave me:

View attachment 1007816

1. I've looked through the Model Y Performance manual (North American version, I'm assuming) and I can't find any stats regarding the factory caster, camber or toe degrees. Do those camber degrees look correct for a Model Y Performance? Are they within spec?
2. Is it normal to have a difference on camber for the front vs rear tires? Driver vs passenger tires?
3. Is it normal to have the differences in caster degrees?

I'm a complete car noob, but I would like to understand what I drive on a daily basis.

Thank you in advance,

1. You generally won't find alignment data in the owners manual, it's typically in the service manuals: https://service.tesla.com/docs/ModelY/ServiceManual/index-model-y.html However, you won't find any specs in the Tesla docs.

I'm attaching an alignment I had done at Redwood Motorsports, but I'm not sure if these are factory values. You can see the ranges in the top left and right corner of the individual values.

Did you say the service center did yours?

2. Yes, you typically see more camber in the rear. This is by design so people don't spin their vehicles out. Camber should be similar from side to side.

3. No, caster should be the same. Approx 5 deg is a good value on the street. This is felt as the "self centering" effect of the wheel when you stop steering.

What sticks out the most to me is your "corrected" rear toe values.

 

[ACRei]

1. You generally won't find alignment data in the owners manual, it's typically in the service manuals: https://service.tesla.com/docs/ModelY/ServiceManual/index-model-y.html However, you won't find any specs in the Tesla docs.

I'm attaching an alignment I had done at Redwood Motorsports, but I'm not sure if these are factory values. You can see the ranges in the top left and right corner of the individual values.

Did you say the service center did yours?

2. Yes, you typically see more camber in the rear. This is by design so people don't spin their vehicles out. Camber should be similar from side to side.

3. No, caster should be the same. Approx 5 deg is a good value on the street. This is felt as the "self centering" effect of the wheel when you stop steering.

What sticks out the most to me is your "corrected" rear toe values.

View attachment 1007824

Thank you for the comparison with your alignment. It’s good to have a frame of reference. I did go to the local Tesla Service Center. It took about 3 hours.

They did fix the steering wheel angle. So I’m grateful for that.

Thanks for the explanation. The only docs I found with camber, caster, and toe angles was an english Tesla manual for China. I can’t find anything for the N.A. MYP.

The number that jumps out to me is the -1.30° camber on the front driver side wheel. With the passenger front side wheel at -.85°, is that right? Do all the numbers seem proper?

 

[fiehlsport]

@ACRei You have way too much negative front camber. That will cause a pull if the left & right are not equal, even when toe is corrected on the front wheels.

My Tesla SC states this is non-adjustable - though the service manual says you can get some adjustment by moving the front upper control arm (FUCA) mount in its holes, but there is barely any wiggle room. I had to bore out the front upper control arm mounting holes on my car to allow for the camber to be corrected. My car was severely out of alignment from the factory, and after 3 alignments, I had to modify the vehicle in order for it to be able to be aligned properly. I was showing -0.5 camber on the front left (fine), and -1.5 degrees on the front right. Had to use a carbide bit to "oval" out the holes in the frunk area, which allowed me to slide the upper control arm more "positive," and the alignment techs were able to fine-tune it at the shop to get -0.5 degrees on both front wheels.

I also had to adjust the caster using the same method, albeit not as aggressively, on my front left wheel. With the caster and camber identical on both sides, the car finally steers correctly and "self-centers" well. (A factor of having the caster set correctly around 6 degrees)

My alignment shop hates Teslas and was very impressed with the result after my modifications. They say they are difficult to get right - probably because these cars aren't straight from the factory. I've never had alignment issues with any other of my many cars, except my last two Teslas. They're junk in that regard - the variances are way off from what they should be.

TL;DR: Your car won't drive straight (Or have acceptable front tire wear) until you can get the front camber corrected.

 

[nate704]

@ACRei You have way too much negative front camber. That will cause a pull if the left & right are not equal, even when toe is corrected on the front wheels.

My Tesla SC states this is non-adjustable - though the service manual says you can get some adjustment by moving the front upper control arm (FUCA) mount in its holes, but there is barely any wiggle room. I had to bore out the front upper control arm mounting holes on my car to allow for the camber to be corrected. My car was severely out of alignment from the factory, and after 3 alignments, I had to modify the vehicle in order for it to be able to be aligned properly. I was showing -0.5 camber on the front left (fine), and -1.5 degrees on the front right. Had to use a carbide bit to "oval" out the holes in the frunk area, which allowed me to slide the upper control arm more "positive," and the alignment techs were able to fine-tune it at the shop to get -0.5 degrees on both front wheels.

I also had to adjust the caster using the same method, albeit not as aggressively, on my front left wheel. With the caster and camber identical on both sides, the car finally steers correctly and "self-centers" well. (A factor of having the caster set correctly around 6 degrees)

My alignment shop hates Teslas and was very impressed with the result after my modifications. They say they are difficult to get right - probably because these cars aren't straight from the factory. I've never had alignment issues with any other of my many cars, except my last two Teslas. They're junk in that regard - the variances are way off from what they should be.

TL;DR: Your car won't drive straight (Or have acceptable front tire wear) until you can get the front camber corrected.

It sounds like an warranty work rather than modifying yourself with a drill.
Every car I have owned had some kind of steering/alignment issue, so it is not Tesla specific issue. I have no issues with the alignment, so as my other friends and family members (15 Tesla cars total) have no issue,.

Is there any reason you didn't go through the warranty process?

 

[fiehlsport]

This can't be covered by warranty since the car doesn't have 100mi or less on it. Anything alignment related is on the customer after delivery and 100mi have elapsed. Tesla can claim that the customer hit a pothole and screwed up the alignment.

Now, if I brought my car back to the delivery center right when I noticed the alignment was bad at delivery (I didn't notice until a few days after I got home, 1000mi later...) I would have a case for them to make it right, but there's not really anything that can be done once a car has 18,000mi on it and is un-alignable. (In my case) I even discussed this with the Service Center and I get their point of view, they don't know if I hit a curb with my car. I know I didn't, but there's no way to prove otherwise.

It's not like I took a considerable amount of metal out of my car - just had to widen the adjustment area by a few mm in order to get everything in spec. This is really the only way to fix this problem - and it fixed it 100%.

 

[nate704]

This can't be covered by warranty since the car doesn't have 100mi or less on it. Anything alignment related is on the customer after delivery and 100mi have elapsed. Tesla can claim that the customer hit a pothole and screwed up the alignment.

Now, if I brought my car back to the delivery center right when I noticed the alignment was bad at delivery (I didn't notice until a few days after I got home, 1000mi later...) I would have a case for them to make it right, but there's not really anything that can be done once a car has 18,000mi on it and is un-alignable. (In my case) I even discussed this with the Service Center and I get their point of view, they don't know if I hit a curb with my car. I know I didn't, but there's no way to prove otherwise.

It's not like I took a considerable amount of metal out of my car - just had to widen the adjustment area by a few mm in order to get everything in spec. This is really the only way to fix this problem - and it fixed it 100%.

Not really. If the alignment is way off the limit and cannot be adjusted for whatever reason, Tesla should cover the work.
Based on your post, your car alignment was way off (or you were exaggerating a bit), and you should be able to notice within 100 miles after you took the delivery.

 

[fiehlsport]

Idk what to tell ya - Tesla told me they don't cover alignment related *anything* after the 100mi is up if you don't report it within that window. Any road hazard can tweak the body or suspension parts, and the blame shifts away from them. Sure, they should cover it in the event that wasn't the case, but there's no way to prove it, so they don't.

No exaggeration - I posted the before & after alignment figures from my car above. The consensus from my shop was that my car's toe was manipulated from the factory to make it drive somewhat straight despite the uneven camber - it wasn't horrible, the wheel was just off. (And tires were wearing poorly up front) When it was actually aligned so the toe was corrected, the car had a horrendous pull because of the uneven camber. I fixed the camber, the car was re-aligned, and it drives straight now.

 

[ngng]

This can't be covered by warranty since the car doesn't have 100mi or less on it. Anything alignment related is on the customer after delivery and 100mi have elapsed. Tesla can claim that the customer hit a pothole and screwed up the alignment.

Now, if I brought my car back to the delivery center right when I noticed the alignment was bad at delivery (I didn't notice until a few days after I got home, 1000mi later...) I would have a case for them to make it right, but there's not really anything that can be done once a car has 18,000mi on it and is un-alignable. (In my case) I even discussed this with the Service Center and I get their point of view, they don't know if I hit a curb with my car. I know I didn't, but there's no way to prove otherwise.

It's not like I took a considerable amount of metal out of my car - just had to widen the adjustment area by a few mm in order to get everything in spec. This is really the only way to fix this problem - and it fixed it 100%.

You drilled into the chassis? I wouldn’t touch your car with a ten foot pole. The correct way to achieve adjustment beyond the factory lash and slop would be aftermarket control and toe hardware.

 

[fiehlsport]

You drilled into the chassis? I wouldn’t touch your car with a ten foot pole. The correct way to achieve adjustment beyond the factory lash and slop would be aftermarket control and toe hardware.

The holes for the FUCA had an extremely minimal amount of metal removed, so the control arm is approx 1mm more outward. Definitely not a hack job in any way. These holes are big and considered adjustment points to allow for wiggle room, (Tesla method in their own service manual) it just needed a tiny bit more. It's not even visible or noticeable. My alignment shop agreed that this was the correct course of action. I'm not going to put aftermarket hardware on the car just for it to drive straight when such a small tweak was required to get an extra +1 degree of camber. I was surprised how little it had to move. Seriously - this could have been done with a handheld file.

I don't think OP is going to be keen on spending $500+ on control arms w/an alignment just to lose a degree of camber on both sides either. Luckily, their numbers are close to each other, so there probably isn't much of a pull, if any.

 

[ACRei]

1. You generally won't find alignment data in the owners manual, it's typically in the service manuals: https://service.tesla.com/docs/ModelY/ServiceManual/index-model-y.html However, you won't find any specs in the Tesla docs.

I'm attaching an alignment I had done at Redwood Motorsports, but I'm not sure if these are factory values. You can see the ranges in the top left and right corner of the individual values.

Did you say the service center did yours?

2. Yes, you typically see more camber in the rear. This is by design so people don't spin their vehicles out. Camber should be similar from side to side.

3. No, caster should be the same. Approx 5 deg is a good value on the street. This is felt as the "self centering" effect of the wheel when you stop steering.

What sticks out the most to me is your "corrected" rear toe values.

View attachment 1007824

Pardon me, @ngng . I didn't see that last line - what stood out about the rear corrected toe?

 

[ACRei]

@ACRei You have way too much negative front camber. That will cause a pull if the left & right are not equal, even when toe is corrected on the front wheels.

My Tesla SC states this is non-adjustable - though the service manual says you can get some adjustment by moving the front upper control arm (FUCA) mount in its holes, but there is barely any wiggle room. I had to bore out the front upper control arm mounting holes on my car to allow for the camber to be corrected. My car was severely out of alignment from the factory, and after 3 alignments, I had to modify the vehicle in order for it to be able to be aligned properly. I was showing -0.5 camber on the front left (fine), and -1.5 degrees on the front right. Had to use a carbide bit to "oval" out the holes in the frunk area, which allowed me to slide the upper control arm more "positive," and the alignment techs were able to fine-tune it at the shop to get -0.5 degrees on both front wheels.

I also had to adjust the caster using the same method, albeit not as aggressively, on my front left wheel. With the caster and camber identical on both sides, the car finally steers correctly and "self-centers" well. (A factor of having the caster set correctly around 6 degrees)

My alignment shop hates Teslas and was very impressed with the result after my modifications. They say they are difficult to get right - probably because these cars aren't straight from the factory. I've never had alignment issues with any other of my many cars, except my last two Teslas. They're junk in that regard - the variances are way off from what they should be.

TL;DR: Your car won't drive straight (Or have acceptable front tire wear) until you can get the front camber corrected.

Oh wow. I was a bit thrown off by that #.
I can't seem to find the camber standards for the NA 2023 Model Y.
Where should those numbers be?

 

[fiehlsport]

Attached below

 

[ngng]

Pardon me, @ngng . I didn't see that last line - what stood out about the rear corrected toe?

OP has one corner toe in and one corner toe out.

 

[ACRei]

OP has one corner toe in and one corner toe out.

oh, it's been corrected. Both rear toes are now at 15.°

 

[ACRei]

Attached below

I saw that, too. But it was from Tesla China, and it seems like it's for the Model Y Standard or LR.

In the same section for the NA manual, the specs are amiss. Idk why. A guess is said specs are sold as part of a database for alignment machines in NA.

 

[ngng]

oh, it's been corrected. Both rear toes are now at 15.°

Apparently I don't know how to read. Did a double take and saw the swapped the Before/After columns on the other side

 

[ACRei]

Apparently I don't know how to read. Did a double take and saw the swapped the Before/After columns on the other side

lol all good

 

[ACRei]

Attached below

I just spoke to the Service Center. Another tech from the same garage is willing to look at the results to see if anything is askew, especially the front driver-side camber you mentioned.

 

[ACRei]

One extra question for you guys:

Say the alignment is done properly, but instead of the steering wheel being off-center to the right, as when I first got the MYP, post-repair, it's now very, slightly off center to the left.

If the alignment is proper, but it's still off-center, is that a big deal, or is it alright to brush it off at this point?