Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Model X with child in drivers seat allegedly injures woman

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
...it can probably not easily be entirely prevented).

We'll disagree on that count...witness pin to drive. They've clearly established many lockout mechanisms for folks to employ if they feel unsafe with the car in the default state. They cannot be blamed if folks choose not to employ them.

On the other hand, if their literature is incorrect or even misleading to the majority...well that's a different story.

The whole purpose of this post this to convey that folks have a responsibility to operate their dangerous property with full knowledge and foresight of how variables could result in an undesirable outcome. It's the same with a stove, lawnmower, or chainsaw. As someone else here mentioned, there is, of course, a reasonableness limit to this. No one would permit a vehicle that could be touched from the exterior with no key or other pre-existing conditions to launch itself at great speed. But this is not what we're talking about.

We're talking about a car that has conditions that need to be met in order to operate, and the mother should have absolutely familiarised herself with those before letting her child anywhere near the front seat. And please don't give me the excuse that she wasn't aware of where the child was, because I intimately understand how a parent's sense of perception works with young children. You may not always be reading fine detail of their actions, but you're hyper aware of their general location and disposition.

Don't get me wrong, there is certainly some level of "reasonable" that needs to be established when you're "reinventing the wheel" (just like my gripes of the car auto locking itself when I get out), so I can absolutely see Tesla settling this one even if the woman is ultimately culpable, but it doesn't excuse her actions one bit.

I do think a thorough test and documentation effort needs to come out of this to indicate exactly what is required to engage the drive function of the car.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlK
We'll disagree on that count...witness pin to drive.

You quoted my pre-edited version of my post. ;)

(it can probably not easily be entirely prevented, except with PIN to drive of course).

I do think a thorough test and documentation effort needs to come out of this to indicate exactly what is required to engage the drive function of the car.

I agree, see my testing above. I encourage other users to carefully test for themselves, or just turn on PIN to drive, if they are worried. They'll find it is quite easy to engage the drive function of the vehicle, I think.

No one would permit a vehicle that could be touched from the exterior with no key or other pre-existing conditions to launch itself at great speed. But this is not what we're talking about.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, but you do not need the key in the vehicle to launch your Model 3 at great speed - but the process can't be done entirely from outside the vehicle.

Don't get me wrong, there is certainly some level of "reasonable" that needs to be established when you're "reinventing the wheel"

I agree. It's tough to know what makes the most sense, but I would say maybe requiring someone to be sitting in the driver's seat would be a good prerequisite for Drive to be engaged. That at least would have prevented this case (if they required the seat occupancy sensor to exceed the correct threshold).

I also think that Tesla should work on adequately locating the phone that is the key for the Model 3; currently they allow the car to be turned on with the phone outside the vehicle, which is inferior to at least some other manufacturers (with keyless fobs).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Neon001
Contrast Test:

I have my Chevrolet Spark EV at work today as well, and I was moving it to get some free charge as well:

1) I left my key on the ground outside the car about 1 foot away, left the door open.
2) Pressed brake pedal, tried to turn on the "ignition" with the pushbutton start
3) Nothing happened - ding, ding, ding - error message saying "key not detected"

Final follow up on this, contrasting:

The Chevy Spark EV requires the following to move the vehicle:

1) The key has to be IN the vehicle, not near it.
2) The brake must be depressed, and concurrently the start button must be pressed. The start button does not work or do anything if the brake is not pressed.
3) The brake must be pressed, the button on the shift lever must be pressed, and the shift knob must be moved to reverse (or whatever). The button on the lever cannot be pressed if the brake is not also pressed.

You do not have to be in the seat, the door can be open, and the seat belt does not have to be buckled.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: CarlK
0579C1F2-3E78-4A7F-A8AC-E2977E58114B.jpeg
I don't know why some people keep saying that there's no way a two year old could put the car in drive. They absolutely could. My Model X got hit by a DUI driver a few weeks ago so I'm waiting on the replacement, but I test fit my very own two year old in my Model 3 and he could easily easily put it in drive. The Model X is bigger, certainly, but it still would be super easy for him to do. For a kid to do this, you don't have to be sitting on the seat. A two year old can stand on the floor and hit the pedal and pull the lever, they can hang off the steering wheel, they can sit on the floor and press the lever and reach up high enough (In a model 3 or S, the X might be too high for that).

But they definitely could do it. And on the model X, And trigger the seat sensor too (It's very sensitive). In fact the second I put him in the car, this is how he sat down so he could hit brake and I have no doubt leaving my little troublemaker in the for more than a minute or two unsupervised he *would* have hit the brake and pulled to stock to try to put it into gear. And it's why we never let the kids play inside the cars (any cars, ever, not just the Teslas.)

Source: My test fit baby (note: I have pin to drive and nobody was in danger during my test)

View attachment 414159

Thank you.


I have a 15 month old.

We bought a model x when she was 7 months old and were lucky to receive a kids model S as a referral award from a TMC member. Our daughter loves the model s for kids but about two weeks ago I realized she really started to figure out what it is and how it works. She is still at least a year (likely 2) away from being able to reach the pedal but a week ago she got in it as she usually does, giggled while turning the wheel but then quickly got into a position to press the accelerator to turn it on and accelerate it. She held down on the accelerator until it drove into a wall (just a couple feet away in our house).


A two year is definitely capable of mimicking and kind of understands what makes a car “go”.
 
They've clearly established many lockout mechanisms for folks to employ if they feel unsafe with the car in the default state. They cannot be blamed if folks choose not to employ them.
I think it is far from obvious to many people how dangerous the Model 3 is in the default state if you have small children. You could read the entire manual front to back and I don’t think you’d get that impression. I bet if you take a survey of people on this forum that the majority of people with small children do not have pin to drive enabled (a feature that didn’t even exist when the car was released and is described as a security feature, not a safety feature).
 
I think it is far from obvious to many people how dangerous the Model 3 is in the default state if you have small children. You could read the entire manual front to back and I don’t think you’d get that impression. I bet if you take a survey of people on this forum that the majority of people with small children do not have pin to drive enabled (a feature that didn’t even exist when the car was released and is described as a security feature, not a safety feature).

I'll add to your survey. +1 for pin enabled and have a 2yr old.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlK
I think it is far from obvious to many people how dangerous the Model 3 is in the default state if you have small children. You could read the entire manual front to back and I don’t think you’d get that impression. I bet if you take a survey of people on this forum that the majority of people with small children do not have pin to drive enabled (a feature that didn’t even exist when the car was released and is described as a security feature, not a safety feature).

You should start an actual survey and see! Would make sense to start in the Model 3 forum probably, since that's arguably the most dangerous vehicle, with the phone key option.
 
You should start an actual survey and see! Would make sense to start in the Model 3 forum probably, since that's arguably the most dangerous vehicle, with the phone key option.
I don’t think it would be an accurate survey. Everyone on the internet is a genius to whom this issue is so obvious that it doesn’t even warrant a warning in the owner’s manual (despite their being dozens of other warnings regarding children). :rolleyes:
 
Makes me mad when Tesla gets bad news like this. Sorry someone got hurt, but come on, loaded gun on kitchen table, kid takes it and kills someone, you can’t blame the gun manufacturer......
This is purely down to the negligence of the women, you have pin to drive, lock the car, or maybe should be looking after your 2 year old a little more carefully.

Anyone that thinks this is the fault of the Model X and Tesla is deluded. Seriously.
 
... read the entire manual front to back...
No need for that - pin to drive is obvious when you run through the settings options on the touchscreen. There aren't even that many of them. If people haven't done that, well, gee I guess they just don't care about what their car can do. Still no good excuse for not knowing, especially when you consider that the consumer has some responsibility to familiarize themselves with a car that's clearly broken the mold in so many ways.

Dont know about everyone else, but for me how to engage drive modes came up twice: first during the test drive and again during delivery. And yes, they mentioned pin to drive during delivery too. Did yours not?

I don’t think it would be an accurate survey. Everyone on the internet is a genius to whom this issue is so obvious that it doesn’t even warrant a warning in the owner’s manual (despite their being dozens of other warnings regarding children). :rolleyes:
I'm not saying it wouldn't be a decent idea to put some additional cautions in the manual, but there's a big difference between that and believing this woman deserves a settlement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Badmonk
Sorry someone got hurt, but come on, loaded gun on kitchen table, kid takes it and kills someone, you can’t blame the gun manufacturer......
This is purely down to the negligence of the women, you have pin to drive, lock the car, or maybe should be looking after your 2 year old a little more carefully.
This accident happened 4 days after purchasing the car. I guess everyone here realized less than 4 days after purchasing their Tesla that their car was equivalent to a loaded gun unless they enabled pin to drive? It's strange how no one bothered to post this realization to forum. I guess it was just too obvious.
Dont know about everyone else, but for me how to engage drive modes came up twice: first during the test drive and again during delivery. And yes, they mentioned pin to drive during delivery too. Did yours not?
They mentioned nothing about pin to drive.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: AlanSubie4Life
decent idea to put some additional cautions in the manual, but there's a big difference between that and believing this woman deserves a settlement.

I think it would be a decent idea to put in an additional safety interlock, and worry less about the manual. It is easier to put the vehicle in drive than most other vehicles (see above) - it requires one fewer step, and it also does not require a key to be in the vehicle in the case of the Model 3. Just one more interlock would be good, and I don’t see that it would need to be intrusive (and you could make it overridable from the screen in case of sensor failure or inconvenience). I just don’t envision needing to put the car in drive too often when I am not in the driver’s seat!

Something Tesla should consider anyway. I am sure there is something they can do which causes minimal or no inconvenience and makes the vehicle safer, even for those with unsupervised children. This is supposed to be the safest car in the world, after all!

If the parents here can truly say their toddler never got into *anything* without their knowledge, they must be super-parents! Now imagine your older child going to get his homework from the car left the door open to the garage and the Model 3 door open accidentally, when your phone was in the next room (close enough to allow opening), and your toddler decided to try to get into the car. Honestly, this seems like it could easily (but rarely) happen to responsible parents. That is not negligence, it is life...

Can EVERY safety hazard be prevented, no, - but can Tesla take simple unobtrusive steps to make the vehicles even safer around young children - probably yes.

And I am fairly sure Tesla’s lawyers will settle this one...
 
I would argue that it is unsafe even for supervised children unless your definition of supervised is literally having the child on a leash. The claim is that the kid ran into the car through the rear door, climbed into the front seat where he put it in drive while she moved around the front of car to retrieve him.

True. It is actually quite easy to see an uncooperative kid who is just trying to get away from a parent trying to squeeze past the steering wheel and engaging drive. It could definitely happen even if the child is supervised, but simply highly uncooperative.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: CarlK
True. It is actually quite easy to see an uncooperative kid who is just trying to get away from a parent trying to squeeze past the steering wheel and engaging drive. It could definitely happen even if the child is supervised, but simply highly uncooperative.
Everyone knows that having an uncooperative 2 year old is a result of poor parenting and/or poor breeding.
She should sue Darwin.
:rolleyes:
 
Can EVERY safety hazard be prevented, no, - but can Tesla take simple unobtrusive steps to make the vehicles even safer around young children - probably yes.

That's exactly point for to do or not to do certain things. It all depends on how extreme you want to go. The only car that is 100% safe would be one that no one could make it to move.

Tesla already has the pin to drive feature but most people, including the mother, do not want to bother with using it.
 
That's exactly point for to do or not to do certain things. It all depends on how extreme you want to go. The only car that is 100% safe would be one that no one could make it to move.
I agree and automakers get sued all the time for design flaws that lead to injury or death. Cars are safer today than they have ever been partially because automakers are held liable.
Tesla already has the pin to drive feature but most people, including the mother, do not want to bother with using it.
When I do a search for "pin to drive safety" on this forum I get zero hits. Every mention of it is in the context of it being an anti-theft feature. And yet you think it is reasonable to blame someone for not knowing that they need to enable it if they have small children?
 
I agree and automakers get sued all the time for design flaws that lead to injury or death. Cars are safer today than they have ever been partially because automakers are held liable.

When I do a search for "pin to drive safety" on this forum I get zero hits. Every mention of it is in the context of it being an anti-theft feature. And yet you think it is reasonable to blame someone for not knowing that they need to enable it if they have small children?

Fortunately, the good engineers at Tesla will likely have a much less dismissive attitude towards this newly revealed safety issue than most of the people on this forum, and I would not be surprised to see some minor tweaks that only an astute observer will notice implemented in the next few months.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: CarlK
Makes me mad when Tesla gets bad news like this. Sorry someone got hurt, but come on, loaded gun on kitchen table, kid takes it and kills someone, you can’t blame the gun manufacturer......
This is purely down to the negligence of the women, you have pin to drive, lock the car, or maybe should be looking after your 2 year old a little more carefully.

Anyone that thinks this is the fault of the Model X and Tesla is deluded. Seriously.

I agree, but unfortunately, the US does not have a 'loser pays' legal system for law suits. Thus, relatively easy to sue anyone for nearly anything. Sure, the case has to be somewhat credible or it will get tossed on summary judgment, but still, very easy and cheap to file a law suit. The Attorney picks up the filing costs and the plaintiff pays nothing unless she wins, and then the attorney takes a third of the settlement plus expenses.

And then, of course, (CA) juries hate to see people injured and just love to punish the big bad, nameless corporation. If this goes to trial, I predict an easy seven figure award. That is why Elon's insurance company will be pushing to settle. (Since a nearby phone unlocks the car, and a two year old can climb in to start it, the jury will find the car design at fault. One way to mitigate in the future would be for the Pin start to be 'On' at delivery and force the new owner to turn it off. So if a untoward kid climbs in, that's on the onwer from turning off the locking mechanism. )

(Please don't hate on me.)
 
I agree and automakers get sued all the time for design flaws that lead to injury or death. Cars are safer today than they have ever been partially because automakers are held liable.

When I do a search for "pin to drive safety" on this forum I get zero hits. Every mention of it is in the context of it being an anti-theft feature. And yet you think it is reasonable to blame someone for not knowing that they need to enable it if they have small children?

Anyone can sue anyone in this country but you need to prove there is a negligence to have a case. Cars are safer today because of safety regulations demanded by consumers or consumer orgnizations not because of all those meritless lawsuits with the only purpose of supporting a certain profession. Company can and will be sued by responsible agencies if it did not follow regulations.

Pin to drive is a security feature so no unauthorized person could start or drive the car. That includes anyone in your household you don't want to have access of the car. The worst aspect of this whole fiasco is some people forgot who has the most responsibility for everything in their life. It's never somebody else. You need to do your part the best you can first. This attitude of I could do any stupid thing I want but you need to make sure nothing bad will happen to me is just so moronic.

One more thing is do you own a Tesla? Please take some time to read the manual and go through the set up screens to see if you have missed anything. Ask question if there is anything that you don't understand. Even that you probably deserve any consequences you're responsible to no one likes to see anything happen to you or your loved ones.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Neon001