Model 3 Highland Steering Issues

[spdpsba]

think I had a F10 BMW M5 with hydraulic steering, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one

That’s not what this review says, anyhow I’ve never driven one, so got to go by your feel. But what I know is it can’t beat the M3P 0-60 3.1 seconds.

The BMW F10 M5 is the forgotten M car | Machines With Souls

The BMW F10 M5 was s stunning performance sedan that's often gotten lost in the shuffle. I review one to see what we're missing out on.

machineswithsouls.com

 

[jrmnet]

Love the cooled seats & swipe to drive (much faster than the old 'gear shift'.

I find that interesting that you find swipe to drive much faster. I've test driven a Model 3 Highland twice now and swipe to drive is my number 1 disappointment. I find it to be much slower than the usual stalks.

 

[FastLaneJB]

That’s not what this review says, anyhow I’ve never driven one, so got to go by your feel. But what I know is it can’t beat the M3P 0-60 3.1 seconds.

The BMW F10 M5 is the forgotten M car | Machines With Souls

The BMW F10 M5 was s stunning performance sedan that's often gotten lost in the shuffle. I review one to see what we're missing out on.

machineswithsouls.com

You have to remember they are comparing M steering to very high end performance saloons. A lot of them have lost steering feel over the years as they've gone electronic for the most part but it's still good, just maybe not as good as the one before it. Ultimately still better than what is to be fair a much cheaper car with an electronic rack but I do love Model 3 steering. It's very good.

 

[Jason71]

unfortunately I'm in Herefordshire

Harsh

 

[wow400]

Harsh

Thankfully it could be worse!!

 

[wow400]

I think OP is talking about a completely different issue than the vibrating steering wheel one that some have. This reads to me like he’s a bit of a dead in the centre spot with the steering.

I loved my Discovery but if I was to give my one pet annoyance with it then it was this. I assumed it was because it was designed also to off road they wanted a bit of play in the wheel however even on a straight road you’d have to keep correcting the steering a bit left and right to keep it straight. The initial small amount of movement in the centre wouldn’t do anything to affect the direction.

Minor in the schemes of what was a great car but I figure this is what the OP means. Which at least isn’t anything like my wife’s M3P which is pre-highland but the Tesla is extremely accurate steering at all points just like say a BMW would be.

Exactly!

 

[wow400]

I find that interesting that you find swipe to drive much faster. I've test driven a Model 3 Highland twice now and swipe to drive is my number 1 disappointment. I find it to be much slower than the usual stalks.

Oh, I'm surprised to hear that.
The old car I had to keep pulling the stalk down to get it to go but perhaps it's an increase in processing speed or something?
I can literally put in my pin2drive, swipe and I'm off!

 

[wow400]

I shall book the car in & Tesla can check it over but I'll (try to) insist on a full alignment check....

 

[mikez10288]

I feel like as an American you don't know how UK number plates work

You are correct. I just looked it up, and it's an interesting system.

 

[FastLaneJB]

So on the way back from dropping my son off at Gatwick today I thought I'd see if there was a slot to book in a Model 3 Test Drive and hope I could get a Long Range this time. Managed to get myself booked in as I was close to one of their pop up centres and sure enough a Model 3 Highland with 19inch Nova's.

Part of this was to test the acceleration vs my wife's Performance to see if the Ludicrous / Performance Highland is worth waiting for (Hopefully be announced very soon but getting fed up of waiting) but also to see around this steering wheel vibration. First same takeaways that the suspension comfort and noise isolation is nicely improved and the cooled seat works really well. Some cars have these and frankly they do almost nothing, looking in your direction BMW. Ambient lighting also when I went in a tunnel is a nice touch to improve the cabin.

Back to the 2 main points. Been years since I tried a Long Range and maybe first time I could try back to back with a Performance. The Long Range is a bit more progressive off the line vs the Performance that is everything from the get go but once the Long Range is going it's still extremely quick and frankly is probably more than enough. Seeing as we wrecked 2 tyres and rims on the Performance a couple of weeks ago from a pothole, 20's are too big but seems like Ludicrous will have 19's as an option so let's see.

With the vibration on this car, if I hadn't have read threads on this I wouldn't have noticed it but did pick up on it a bit on the demo car but it was minor. They had it in Sport steering and switching to comfort it seems to go a bit. Interestingly going back into the old Model 3 Performance after the test drive and same roads I can notice something on that also though it's a bit less.

I have to assume that people that have this, it's much more pronounced so doesn't affect all cars. I think if I was going Long Range I'd do 18's for less change of issues with potholes, that bit extra comfort and that bit extra range.

I'm kind of curious though with active suspension on the Ludicrous being confirmed, does that actually make it more comfortable and / or less likely to have any steering vibrations. Of course then there's the seats which might be less comfortable on longer journeys if the side bolsters aren't adjustable which I don't think they are on the Plaid's new seats. They'll need to be thinner I guess to fit in Model 3 which means it'll be tighter. Decisions, decisions.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

So on the way back from dropping my son off at Gatwick today I thought I'd see if there was a slot to book in a Model 3 Test Drive and hope I could get a Long Range this time. Managed to get myself booked in as I was close to one of their pop up centres and sure enough a Model 3 Highland with 19inch Nova's.

Part of this was to test the acceleration vs my wife's Performance to see if the Ludicrous / Performance Highland is worth waiting for (Hopefully be announced very soon but getting fed up of waiting) but also to see around this steering wheel vibration. First same takeaways that the suspension comfort and noise isolation is nicely improved and the cooled seat works really well. Some cars have these and frankly they do almost nothing, looking in your direction BMW. Ambient lighting also when I went in a tunnel is a nice touch to improve the cabin.

Back to the 2 main points. Been years since I tried a Long Range and maybe first time I could try back to back with a Performance. The Long Range is a bit more progressive off the line vs the Performance that is everything from the get go but once the Long Range is going it's still extremely quick and frankly is probably more than enough. Seeing as we wrecked 2 tyres and rims on the Performance a couple of weeks ago from a pothole, 20's are too big but seems like Ludicrous will have 19's as an option so let's see.

With the vibration on this car, if I hadn't have read threads on this I wouldn't have noticed it but did pick up on it a bit on the demo car but it was minor. They had it in Sport steering and switching to comfort it seems to go a bit. Interestingly going back into the old Model 3 Performance after the test drive and same roads I can notice something on that also though it's a bit less.

I have to assume that people that have this, it's much more pronounced so doesn't affect all cars. I think if I was going Long Range I'd do 18's for less change of issues with potholes, that bit extra comfort and that bit extra range.

I'm kind of curious though with active suspension on the Ludicrous being confirmed, does that actually make it more comfortable and / or less likely to have any steering vibrations. Of course then there's the seats which might be less comfortable on longer journeys if the side bolsters aren't adjustable which I don't think they are on the Plaid's new seats. They'll need to be thinner I guess to fit in Model 3 which means it'll be tighter. Decisions, decisions.

Well, we're still confusing various reported problems in this thread.
The OP describes a vagueness when the steering is centred. That's likely an alignment issue.

Then there are those Highland owners reporting a fairly pronouned vibration they can feel through the steering which doesn't go away when the wheels are re-balanced. From a few reports posted in various places, that seems to be flat-spotting of the tyres and changing the tyres sorts it.

What you're describing seems to me to be something the Model 3 has suffered from for a long time and that's feeling vibrations transmitted from the road surface to the steering wheel. My cars had that to a certain extent and it was largely due to the sub-optimal suspension set up. I have aftermarket suspension now on both and I only feel it now when I drive another Model 3 with factory suspension.
That very subtle vibration through the wheel tends to be at most speeds (unlike the flat spotting one) and varies depending on what wheel and tyre combination you have fitted (and how much tread the tyres have at the time).

If you're driving two cars back to back to get a feel for how they handle, ride, how noisy they are, etc. tyres play a big part so it's important to note which tyres are fitted, what the pressures are, how tread depth compares and drive the exact same route one after the other in the same conditions and at the same speeds.

The new M3P/L or whatever it's going to be called won't have 'active' suspension. It looks like it's going to have 'adaptive' suspension using the same type of dampers fitted to the non-P cars but with a setting which can be adjusted between 'standard' and 'sport'. All that will do is change the valving in the dampers between two settings, so if the dampers used are essentially the same as the ones on the other Highland models, I'm expecting the standard setting will feel the same as the Long Range and the 'sport' setting will firm the dampers up a bit from there. I doubt the M3P/L will be any more comfortable than the other Highland models, if your definition of "comfortable" means a soft ride (like air suspension gives you).

The seats are a much-needed improvement because it's the one thing the current M3P always needed which is a massive pain to do with aftermarket parts. Looking at photos, if anything I think they've gone a bit conservative but we'll see once the reviews come out. I still think they'll be as comfortable, especially as they're now vented.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Just to add to the OP's topic properly, no dead centre steering on the car I tested. And I'd tried a RWD a month or so ago also and that was fine so that one I think is with your car. Hope you can get it sorted.

Well, we're still confusing various reported problems in this thread.
The OP describes a vagueness when the steering is centred. That's likely an alignment issue.

Then there are those Highland owners reporting a fairly pronouned vibration they can feel through the steering which doesn't go away when the wheels are re-balanced. From a few reports posted in various places, that seems to be flat-spotting of the tyres and changing the tyres sorts it.

What you're describing seems to me to be something the Model 3 has suffered from for a long time and that's feeling vibrations transmitted from the road surface to the steering wheel. My cars had that to a certain extent and it was largely due to the sub-optimal suspension set up. I have aftermarket suspension now on both and I only feel it now when I drive another Model 3 with factory suspension.
That very subtle vibration through the wheel tends to be at most speeds (unlike the flat spotting one) and varies depending on what wheel and tyre combination you have fitted (and how much tread the tyres have at the time).

If you're driving two cars back to back to get a feel for how they handle, ride, how noisy they are, etc. tyres play a big part so it's important to note which tyres are fitted, what the pressures are, how tread depth compares and drive the exact same route one after the other in the same conditions and at the same speeds.

The new M3P/L or whatever it's going to be called won't have 'active' suspension. It looks like it's going to have 'adaptive' suspension using the same type of dampers fitted to the non-P cars but with a setting which can be adjusted between 'standard' and 'sport'. All that will do is change the valving in the dampers between two settings, so if the dampers used are essentially the same as the ones on the other Highland models, I'm expecting the standard setting will feel the same as the Long Range and the 'sport' setting will firm the dampers up a bit from there. I doubt the M3P/L will be any more comfortable than the other Highland models, if your definition of "comfortable" means a soft ride (like air suspension gives you).

The seats are a much-needed improvement because it's the one thing the current M3P always needed which is a massive pain to do with aftermarket parts. Looking at photos, if anything I think they've gone a bit conservative but we'll see once the reviews come out. I still think they'll be as comfortable, especially as they're now vented.

That's really useful and you’re right I think about what I must have been feeling. What suspension do you have which makes that go away and what's the comfort like with it?

Yes my bad, I mean adaptive suspension and you are likely right that comfort in the Ludicrious matches what an SR and LR are be default. However it might be because those cars cannot be adjusted they are more of a half way house and comfort in the Ludicrous could be more comfortable. Unlikely I know but need to see what reviews say about the car.

I'm unsure on the seats to be honest because I suspect there's no adjustable side bolsters but they are fixed. That runs the risk that they are a little too tight and become annoying on long trips. I'm more used to cars that can tighten up in sports mode the bolsters and soften back up in comfort. My Eletre could adjust this and in sport mode it held you firm but I'd not want that for a trip as it was too firm. In comfort they’d soften right up when deflated and be just fine.

The Plaid seats look fine but the Model 3 seats are thinner due to the car being less wide so I have a concern the seats actually could be the main deal breaker on having a Ludicrous. I know not aligning with most people but if it's a daily kind of car, I don't want it extreme and uncomfortable.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

That's really useful and you’re right I think about what I must have been feeling. What suspension do you have which makes that go away and what's the comfort like with it?

Yes my bad, I mean adaptive suspension and you are likely right that comfort in the Ludicrious matches what an SR and LR are be default. However it might be because those cars cannot be adjusted they are more of a half way house and comfort in the Ludicrous could be more comfortable. Unlikely I know but need to see what reviews say about the car.

I'm unsure on the seats to be honest because I suspect there's no adjustable side bolsters but they are fixed. That runs the risk that they are a little too tight and become annoying on long trips. I'm more used to cars that can tighten up in sports mode the bolsters and soften back up in comfort. My Eletre could adjust this and in sport mode it held you firm but I'd not want that for a trip as it was too firm. In comfort they’d soften right up when deflated and be just fine.

The Plaid seats look fine but the Model 3 seats are thinner due to the car being less wide so I have a concern the seats actually could be the main deal breaker on having a Ludicrous. I know not aligning with most people but if it's a daily kind of car, I don't want it extreme and uncomfortable.

I've got 2-way adjustable Ohlins fitted to my M3P along with a lot of other suspension upgrades (i.e. solid bushes) so comfort isn't really the primary consideration there, but the main thing is the harshness and crashiness of the stock M3P suspension is eliminated, so although some might find it still too stiff overall (even when the dampers are softened off) it actually handles rough roads very well.

With the original factory Model 3 suspension, the thing that let it down was always the dampers, particularly the rears, so any decent coilover kit will fix that (which means spending at least £1500 on a good kit and having it fitted and aligned by someone who knows what they're doing).

In terms of comfort improvements, this is always the problem when discussing suspension and all those subjective terms - ride, handling, comfort, soft, stiff, harsh, sporty etc. etc. It's difficult to know what one person likes and another hates unless they experience it first hand, which is why my advice to anyone thinking of changing their suspension is to try before you buy if at all possible.

Re. the seats, I think it's going to depend a lot on your build how comfortable they are, but I doubt the side bolsters will be adjustable. Happy to be wrong though! As with the suspension, I've always been OK about sacrificing a bit of comfort for better performance. I've had several 'M' BMWs with sports seats in the past and they were a good compromise I thought, but I know that won't suit everyone.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I've got 2-way adjustable Ohlins fitted to my M3P along with a lot of other suspension upgrades (i.e. solid bushes) so comfort isn't really the primary consideration there, but the main thing is the harshness and crashiness of the stock M3P suspension is eliminated, so although some might find it still too stiff overall (even when the dampers are softened off) it actually handles rough roads very well.

With the original factory Model 3 suspension, the thing that let it down was always the dampers, particularly the rears, so any decent coilover kit will fix that (which means spending at least £1500 on a good kit and having it fitted and aligned by someone who knows what they're doing).

In terms of comfort improvements, this is always the problem when discussing suspension and all those subjective terms - ride, handling, comfort, soft, stiff, harsh, sporty etc. etc. It's difficult to know what one person likes and another hates unless they experience it first hand, which is why my advice to anyone thinking of changing their suspension is to try before you buy if at all possible.

Re. the seats, I think it's going to depend a lot on your build how comfortable they are, but I doubt the side bolsters will be adjustable. Happy to be wrong though! As with the suspension, I've always been OK about sacrificing a bit of comfort for better performance. I've had several 'M' BMWs with sports seats in the past and they were a good compromise I thought, but I know that won't suit everyone.

I'm used to having my cake and eating it. If you throw enough money into the car purchase you can have handling and comfort. That's normally things like air suspension, 48 volt active anti-roll bars and so on to achieve that though so cars way beyond the price of the Model 3.

Going back though long enough, cars like the BMW 335d with adaptive suspension were more than comfortable enough. Comfort ultimately comes from a mixture of the suspension but also the seats. I think the Model 3 in Highland variety is probably around where I'd like it. It's comfortable enough and the suspension still lets it handle quite well. I imagine not well enough for you considering what you've said but it's a good compromise for most people I think.

I agree the sports seats won't have adjustable side bolsters and the pictures concern me on it. I'm a bit bigger than I used to be and they look like they might be tight and comfortable. However I also try to remember that they are an American car company and there's plenty of far larger than me Americans, are they going to sell a car that wouldn't be suitable for those people? Well maybe...

 

[Foxsbiscuits]

I test drove a RWD Highland a while back and the steering felt noticeably sloppy/sluggish, I then found an article explaining it's because the steering gear ratio was changed. Makes it easier to drive on motorways but IMO less fun and nippy.

However I don't know whether that change applies to the LR model and don't have any way of finding out. The sales people don't know.

Does anyone know?

 

[wow400]

Right, took the car to Solihull this morning for them to rebalance the wheels and sort out this vagueness in the steering. I also mentioned that the car on AP on the motorway doesn't sit in the middle of the lane but to the LHS....
I took one of their Highlands out for a quick test drive to see if it was just me / 2 cars or mine was a duffer. Their Highland felt completely normal.
Got my car back with this summary of the work done:

Carried out wheel alignment and adjusted the front camber and​

toe as well as the rear camber and toe, specs were slightly out​

of tolerance but are now within spec. Carried out a rebalance​

of all 4 wheels. Carried out a road test and confirmed the​

vehicle drives as intended​

​

On the hour long drive home it felt a lot, lot better but I'll need to do some more miles to confirm it's fully acceptable.
As to the cars positioning in the lane - the tech said that might be to do with the alignment issues but to report further...

HTH someone,

Nic

 

[FastLaneJB]

Right, took the car to Solihull this morning for them to rebalance the wheels and sort out this vagueness in the steering. I also mentioned that the car on AP on the motorway doesn't sit in the middle of the lane but to the LHS....
I took one of their Highlands out for a quick test drive to see if it was just me / 2 cars or mine was a duffer. Their Highland felt completely normal.
Got my car back with this summary of the work done:

Carried out wheel alignment and adjusted the front camber and​

toe as well as the rear camber and toe, specs were slightly out​

of tolerance but are now within spec. Carried out a rebalance​

of all 4 wheels. Carried out a road test and confirmed the​

vehicle drives as intended​

​

On the hour long drive home it felt a lot, lot better but I'll need to do some more miles to confirm it's fully acceptable.
As to the cars positioning in the lane - the tech said that might be to do with the alignment issues but to report further...

HTH someone,

Nic

Don't have a highland but ours sits nicely in centre of the lane. I think when you get a new car it runs a camera calibration before Autopilot is available so maybe that didn't work to plan. Guess must be a way to clear that and let it recalibrate but I'd think this is camera based more than tyres that would cause that.

Good to see though that the car drives a lot better for you now.

 

[wow400]

Don't have a highland but ours sits nicely in centre of the lane. I think when you get a new car it runs a camera calibration before Autopilot is available so maybe that didn't work to plan. Guess must be a way to clear that and let it recalibrate but I'd think this is camera based more than tyres that would cause that.

Good to see though that the car drives a lot better for you now.

The first thing I did after noticing that it wasn't correctly positioning itself was to recalibrate the cameras but it made no difference.
Having looked at the service menu, I notice that the steering offset has been removed.
I've yet to have a look at any other options though!

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I test drove a RWD Highland a while back and the steering felt noticeably sloppy/sluggish, I then found an article explaining it's because the steering gear ratio was changed. Makes it easier to drive on motorways but IMO less fun and nippy.

However I don't know whether that change applies to the LR model and don't have any way of finding out. The sales people don't know.

Does anyone know?

Yes, Highland ratio is slightly different. 10.6:1 now, was 10.3:1

 

[Dangerous Fish]

The first thing I did after noticing that it wasn't correctly positioning itself was to recalibrate the cameras but it made no difference.
Having looked at the service menu, I notice that the steering offset has been removed.
I've yet to have a look at any other options though!

Do you mean offset is now at 0? Whatever your offset was peviously it's probably changed due to re-alignment, but after a short drive it should re-calculate it again.