I haven’t, but I’ll see if I have any; the car is currently in Michigan (with 225/45/19 snows mounted on 19x8.5 sport wheels) and I am currently in California.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]
- Thread starter Daniel L
- Start date
Honestly the Plaid time is disapointing to say the least vs HP.
Mainly linked to the fact that it cannot be at full power for more than 3 min before overheating, so the lap attempt was 100% power/heat management. For example in 2017 a stock 650HP C7 Z06 did 7min13s with Sport Auto ... I have one which is fully prepped for roadcourse (full aero, full racing suspensions and bushings, weight saving and slicks) and this car would probably be a sub 7 min car no problem in its current configuration. The Plaid would absolutely destroy me in straight line but ends up 30s slower because of weight (slower in braking and corner) and power/cooling...
So a 700HP Model 3 with good suspensions, brakes and above everything COOLING should be able to beat the Plaid time by quite a margin...
My concern is that without the 800V architecture, the cooling will alway be an issue... It's time for Tesla to go full 800V lon all models ike the Cybertruck.
On the current Model 3 Performance, power needs to be limited to 220KW (300HP) to be able to run 15 min without power drop. This is the power level current battery and cooling can handle, and what is used on the Model 3 Spec challenge... Ways to go...
The max sustainable power (more than 10min) the Plaid can do is around 300-350KW ...
Last edited:
I work 65H a week so I select where I spend time... Looking for parts that I don't need is not something worth my time
Both Mechanical and Electrical Engineer though, so I know quite a bit about drives and motors/robots. (and also build engines, tune and race ICE cars on the side)
If you don't want to look things up to prove your point, then maybe don't start with the assumption that other people who are looking things up for you are wrong. All the prices I posted are accurate. And I think pretty clearly shows that if Tesla wanted to put the Plaid drivetrain or similar in the M3P, they could do so pretty cheaply.
With the state of technology today, an ICE car makes a better track toy than an EV; at least with anything which is practical for the street as well. That is why the comparison was of Porsche Taycan to Tesla Model S. Porsche has quite a few ICE cars that can take the Plaid on the Nuburgring. Maybe that will change in the future, but today the EVs have issues with heat, range, and weight. Teslas do make pretty good drag racing vehicles however; their consistence and speed in the 1/8th or 1/4 mile make them outstanding for cars that are practical daily drivers as well.
Tiger
Active Member
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
There are only 2 Porsches faster than the Plaid on the Nürburgring and both are in the half-million dollar price range, the GT3 and GT4. It'd be quite a stretch to call that "quite a few". And considering that this is all supercar territory, it's hard to argue that "EVs have issues" in this context.
Nürburgring times are an interesting metric of course, but only a handful of owners ever "race" their car anywhere more substantial than a parking lot sprinkled with orange cones. So it's quite a fantasy to imagine Tesla optimizing their $47K people's car for unlimited back-to-back runs on the 'ring.
They’d have to put the 19x9.5s back on. Which, given the recent weather, isn’t such a bad idea; but nevertheless unlikelySend someone to take a photo
Porsches with faster Nurburgring laptimes than the Model S Plaid
918
911 GT2 RS (multiple variants)
911 GT2 (multiple variants)
911 GT3 RS (multiple variants)
911 GT3 (multiple variants)
Cayman GT4 RS
911 Turbo S (multiple variants)
911 Carrera GTS
A number of these models are well under half a million dollars, although I think you can get a brand new Model S Plaid for less than any of them, other than a used 911 Carrera GTS. A Panamera Turbo is close as well. If Porsche put a little racier package together for it, just better tires, seats, a minor suspension tune, and roll cage, and then had a special track day, like Porsche and Tesla did with the Taycan and Plaid respectively, I think the Panamera would set a noticeably better time than the Plaid.
Hoosier-Daddy
Member
On the street as in where less than .0000000001% of "destroying happens?" What is this high school? Only benefit on the street is feeling the Gs. Either enough for you or buy something quicker. Then again, I used to destroy everything on the road with my GF's Beetle. I would pull off at the top of exit ramps and jot down every car I "killed" as it rolled past!
canasion35
Active Member
So true - I just want the plaid acceleration and top end pull in a model 3 chassis with a solid suspension setup and square tires...I'll swap both my Teslas out for one of those...
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Well, there's no way to know the cost of a new Porsche without actually buying one.
But used, they go for about $300K after god-knows how much track thrashing, so it would be reasonable to assume the new price is much higher.
At any rate, they are roughly 10X the cost of a Model 3 so my point is simply that we might be "Highland Performance Speculating" a little too far here.
But used, they go for about $300K after god-knows how much track thrashing, so it would be reasonable to assume the new price is much higher.
At any rate, they are roughly 10X the cost of a Model 3 so my point is simply that we might be "Highland Performance Speculating" a little too far here.
Actually, the new list price on most limited production Porsche models like the Cayman GT4 RS or the 911 GT3 RS, is actually much lower than what you can typically buy them for. The problem is you can't get them new unless you have an in with a dealer. A 911 GT3 RS shows on Porsche's website as starting at $241,300 and a Cayman GT4 RS shows as starting at $160,700. It's also possible to load up 10s of thousands of dollars of options on these cars.
P.S. Mostly just talking about other cars since there hasn't been any recent news on the new Model 3 Performance. I wish Tesla would tell us at least a little something, or let a couple of leaks out.
I don't care about street on my end.
I race on AutoX and Roadcourse with either my model 3 (AutoX) or my Corvette (AutoX and Roadcourse). I don't give a rats ass about street racing, no skills involved here, or too much risks in mountain roads (I used to do "Touge" style driving, done with that).
Ring times are a summuray of overall roadcourse performance and endurance. Tesla so far have outright speed with brakes and suspension/tires mods (you can make a Model 3 be a freaking weapon on AutoX or time attack), but they cannot do more than 3-4min at full speed before going into limp mode.
Hyundai/Kia with their 800V architecture can do 2 laps of the Nurb without power drop. Tesla is FAR from that... (barely half a lap)
Hoping new Model 3 will somewhat catchup, but without 800V doubt it will be the case... Tesla is starting to fall behind, they need to wake up
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
What does voltage have to do with track performance?
800V architecture simply adds some potential for faster charging if the battery chemistry allows. But modern batteries can barely approach 4C charge rates - and only momentarily and in very rare circumstances. This works out to <300kW charge for a ~80kWh battery which is perfectly doable at 400V, so there would be little benefit to increasing the voltage of the 3/Y today.
Yes there's some copper savings to be had with higher voltages, but this is offset by larger and more expensive transistors and capacitors, so any potential cost benefits are unclear.
The CT is 800V because of the larger battery. Hyundai is 800V because of the crappy CCS charger which can't handle 600A.
800V architecture simply adds some potential for faster charging if the battery chemistry allows. But modern batteries can barely approach 4C charge rates - and only momentarily and in very rare circumstances. This works out to <300kW charge for a ~80kWh battery which is perfectly doable at 400V, so there would be little benefit to increasing the voltage of the 3/Y today.
Yes there's some copper savings to be had with higher voltages, but this is offset by larger and more expensive transistors and capacitors, so any potential cost benefits are unclear.
The CT is 800V because of the larger battery. Hyundai is 800V because of the crappy CCS charger which can't handle 600A.
Last edited:
800V vs 400V means 2x less amps for the same power, so less heat loss overall in the battery and motors (Joule heating) = equal less cooling needed for same power output
