Lucid Air Will Be Better Than Model S, Says Former Tesla Engineer

[BlindPass]

I take about a half dozen road trips each year from N. Cal whose total distance is 1000 miles or more round trip. The quantity, speed, and availability of the charging network, comfortable cabin, and autopilot are my most important considerations.

Because the perfect product or service does not exist, all products and services are suboptimal, which is not a reason to ignore a feature. Needless to say, the supercharger network is a huge plus for me.

However, I believe Lucid's 9.9 seconds quarter mile and 500 mile range will be a non-feature by the time they ship. I'll bet that Tesla will counter with similar or better specs within 12 months.

Maybe as early as Sept 22 or when plaid comes out, because EM does not typically let competitors bask in the sun for more than a month or two.

Only 6 trips? That’s even less than I thought. How many times do you use your car for trips less than 500 miles?

For the vast majority of people, the delta between EA and SC is minuscule in the grand scheme of things. I’m the future they’ll be even or EA ahead. If road trips are a prominent decision variable, it’s hard to fathom getting an EV at all. No is ignoring it, but rather simply just not irrationally weighting a small difference and promoting the false narrative behind range anxiety.

Whatever Tesla releases on 9/22 will likely quickly be surpassed by the tri-motor Lucid. Remember, Rawlinson just topped himself, and Lucid’s DNA is in Formula-E whereas Tesla’s DNA is robo taxis cost-cutting. I don’t anticipate Tesla keeping up, nor is it important for them to do so

 

[Mo City]

This is incorrect. If you go to the Design Studio, FSD comes standard on the Air Grand Touring ($139k) and is an available upgrade option on the Air Touring ($95k). The only unknown is the sub $80k version since the details are not available.

I stand corrected.

What is the price of that option? It didn't increase the price when I chose the Dream Drive Level 3 option.

 

[qingshan]

Free for 3 years at EA is a deal but they aren't present at that many locations yet and when the time runs out, watch out! EA has the worst prices.
ALSO
I personally think the car is fugley

 

[diplomat33]

I stand corrected.

What is the price of that option? It didn't increase the price when I chose the Dream Drive Level 3 option.

It does not say what the price is. It does not increase the price for me either when I select it. Maybe it is a bug in the design studio or perhaps the price already includes the option?

 

[meomyo]

Agree.
Range anxiety was overblown when the S was just 200 miles and there were sparse SC network. So, yeah, charging on a much larger EA network with a car with 500 miles of range isn’t an issue.


Like most people, a vast majority of our miles are less than 200 miles and we charge at home 80% of the time.

I agree with this.I think the market is ripe to have tesla or someone else release a daily commuter auto at 20-30k that gets 150 miles to compete with the leaf/volt and bmw i3. But make it look way sportier: the 3 was a shot at this and many jumped on but there is a market for an even less $$ ev thats sporty looking and basic to drive daily and charge at night: 100 mi? 150 max? I mean the offerings from nissan and bmw and gm look terrible in styling

 

[uujjj2]

This Peter Rawlinson guy is a much better public speaker than Elon Musk. Lucid is a company full of ex-Tesla people, and it shows. They really are trying to make a better/luxury Tesla.

 

[meomyo]

I musy be the only one who thinks the model 3 and y and even the x now look boring and unattractive and generic with duckbill frontend(yea headlights are cool "porsche " like but the front end looks stunted and not sleek and the rear looks like a chevy or bmw-boring and not sexy. The model s lines are still sexy and sleek to me but i agree the interior is far too simple and basic for the price it commands: the lucid will win in that dept for sure so i guess the drive will be more comfy?
The cybertruck to me is also sexy and cool in looks and i like no paint and the design. The 3 was made to get more into a tesla at less$$ and worked/works fine to do that but to me looks boring like the i3/leaf and volt.
The Y looks like a cross between a 3 and and x which looks even more boring to me. Just my opinion and many will disagree. Lucid and porsche look very nice style wise but seem like they will be more $$ then tesla s: i would have expected them to be less then tesla to get even more people on the fence pulled away from tesla but they are going for the luxury money crowd- i get that.

FSD to me is a joke and wont even be a reality even in 20 years because no matter how advanced people wont beable to trust the system with thier lives. do you? will you? If you have kids in the back will you read a book in front and surf your phone and let the car do it all? I think not. Even now you have to keep your hands on the wheel lightly for when the car may veer off and its even more nerve wracking driving like this with auto pilot. Sure some of you will say...i drive with auto pilot all the time just fine: but you have to be ready to grab control..whats the point
? its a neat parlor trick

 

[Mo City]

It does not say what the price is. It does not increase the price for me either when I select it. Maybe it is a bug in the design studio or perhaps the price already includes the option?

Maybe it is deliberate because sticker shock might be an issue. Their sensor suite could be quite costly.

The problem remains that you must decide at the time of purchase and cannot upgrade later. This could be a minor issue though.

 

[jimmym1981]

FSD to me is a joke and wont even be a reality even in 20 years because no matter how advanced people wont beable to trust the system with thier lives. do you? will you? If you have kids in the back will you read a book in front and surf your phone and let the car do it all? I think not. Even now you have to keep your hands on the wheel lightly for when the car may veer off and its even more nerve wracking driving like this with auto pilot. Sure some of you will say...i drive with auto pilot all the time just fine: but you have to be ready to grab control..whats the point
? its a neat parlor trick

In a way, this is kinda agreeable to an extent. Even today, regular AP has a lot of issues that scares the sh*t out of me and I'm more nervous driving with it than without it (mainly the last minute braking on the interstate that has almost rear-ended a few cars if I didn't slam the brakes ahead of time) Sure, the re-write might fix a lot, but I do agree, I don't think I would ever truly trust it as well. Some will and that is great, however, a handful of major accidents (which will happen) might refute and regulatory repeal the whole 10-15 years of development.

 

[diplomat33]

Maybe it is deliberate because sticker shock might be an issue. Their sensor suite could be quite costly.

Could be. Yes, I agree the sensor suite is probably expensive considering that it includes 30 high grade sensors, including lidar. I suspect the sub $80k version probably won't have FSD. That could be one way that they reduce the cost so low compared to the other models.

 

[thx1139]

But 500+ miles of range will compensate for the lack of fast chargers since you won't need to stop for charging as much. And EA has charging stations nicely spaced out across the US.

500+ miles of range + Electrify America Network seems fine to me. I don't think I would have any range anxiety with that, certainly not more range anxiety than I would have with 300 miles range + Tesla SC Network.

Is 500+ the range for all trims?

 

[diplomat33]

Is 500+ the range for all trims?

No.

Air Dream is 503 mi

Air Grand Touring is 517 mi

Air Touring is 406 mi

Base Air is unknown at this time

 

[thx1139]

This is incorrect. If you go to the Design Studio, FSD comes standard on the Air Grand Touring ($139k) and is an available upgrade option on the Air Touring ($95k). The only unknown is the sub $80k version since the details are not available.

The website is awful. I tried to design the Air Touring and cant seem to get the price to change even though I am selecting items that are marked as optional. Is the car only available in 2 colors? Does it only have one option for interior? I could see that, but it should say that. How much do the options cost?

 

[diplomat33]

The website is awful. I tried to design the Air Touring and cant seem to get the price to change even though I am selecting items that are marked as optional. Is the car only available in 2 colors? Does it only have one option for interior? I could see that, but it should say that. How much do the options cost?

Right now, the prices of the options are not listed. As we noted before, there might be a bug on the design studio or they only tell you the cost of the options when you get to the check-out.

 

[thx1139]

No.

Air Dream is 503 mi

Air Grand Touring is 517 mi

Air Touring is 406 mi

Base Air is unknown at this time

So
503 mile $170K version June 2021
517 mile $140K version September 2021
406 mile $95K version December 2021
??? mile $80K version March 2022

Use last dates of the time period because thats how these things typically go.

Really gives Tesla time to expose significant improvements to the S before any of those dates. Then Lucid can become a sales tool for Tesla. People interested in a Lucid EV cant get many because of initial production ramp up then take a look at the new 2021 Model S which likely will cost a good deal less.

 

[thx1139]

Right now, the prices of the options are not listed. As we noted before, there might be a bug on the design studio or they only tell you the cost of the options when you get to the check-out.

Ok, but the design is awful as well. Color for instance. Nothing indicates that only 2 options. Same for interior nothing indicates it is only 1 option. Dont make people think you have options when you dont have more.

 

[diplomat33]

Ok, but the design is awful as well. Color for instance. Nothing indicates that only 2 options. Same for interior nothing indicates it is only 1 option. Dont make people think you have options when you dont have more.

I don't disagree about that.

The 3D virtual car on the left is cool but the layout of the options on the right side could be better.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Have you used an EA charger yet?

Not successfully. Seriously, every time I have tried the Chademo has been broken.

 

[dfwatt]

Not successfully. Seriously, every time I have tried the Chademo has been broken.

Yes I would love for Electrify America to be a roaring success but it seems like it's about as reliable as VW diesel emission controls.

 

[mrmage]

Only 6 trips? That’s even less than I thought. How many times do you use your car for trips less than 500 miles?

For the vast majority of people, the delta between EA and SC is minuscule in the grand scheme of things. I’m the future they’ll be even or EA ahead. If road trips are a prominent decision variable, it’s hard to fathom getting an EV at all. No is ignoring it, but rather simply just not irrationally weighting a small difference and promoting the false narrative behind range anxiety.

Whatever Tesla releases on 9/22 will likely quickly be surpassed by the tri-motor Lucid. Remember, Rawlinson just topped himself, and Lucid’s DNA is in Formula-E whereas Tesla’s DNA is robo taxis cost-cutting. I don’t anticipate Tesla keeping up, nor is it important for them to do so

I need the space in the model X only 1% of the time, but not having it is a deal breaker. I need the autopilot only 1% of the time for long trips, but not having it is a deal breaker. I need the supercharger network 1% of the time, but not having that is also a deal breaker.

Tesla sold 80% of EVs in America in the first half of the year. Ignoring that competing EVs have worse range for road trips, I don't see EA building a superior charging network next year when it only caters to 20% or 30% of the market that Tesla does.

Btw, range anxiety isn't false if it's felt. Differences aren't small to the people who care about them.