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June 23 UK Car Sales
- Thread starter Mr Miserable
- Start date
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
I've been reading one of yesterday's twelve anti-EV articles/comments on the Daily Fail/Hate. If the
On a different subject, I've become addicted to watching diesel van problems on Riley's Autos youtube channel. Seems to be many people unable to use their vans/cars for months/years, paying out thousands for fixes (that don't) over multiple garage/dealer visits. The one I liked most was the persistent DPF fixes that failed to fix the problems. Root cause? Wrong wing mirror - missing an outside temperature sensor. Customer laughing at mechanic that that could be the problem. Fixed it quickly. Lesson, ICE are now so complicated that they are a complete liability, garages can't fix them, error codes are confusing and don't buy wing mirrors from eBay.
I suspect a Tesla van would do well with those affected by dodgy diesels.
stonecoldrmw
Member
To be fair, I've fallen out of love with the M3. I've ordered the Fisker Ocean Extreme. Looks far better.
stonecoldrmw
Member
Agree with the original point and the quote above that this was replying to.you mean a bit like tesla owners when their car value is 25% of its sale price.
Shocked that i owe £4k more than my M3P is currently worth!
There’s a lot of truth in this. I was talking to a mechanic the other day and he said when he started an exhaust was a pipe, silencer box and that was it, £50 in todays money. Today it’s 10 different sensors, catalytic converter, silencers, valve flaps and the like and cost £500 (I imagine the 5 pints he’d dunk led to some some simplification in the numbers). But then he also admitted at least they generally start nowadays and when did you last see a choke on a car or the glow plug warming light on a diesel. Progress..
EV power trains appear to be simpler but we’ve not really run into the problems we may get in the future. Most are still covered by 8 year warranties, Tesla will just replace what’s broken, and the number of higher mileage cars outside warranty going wrong aren’t that high in number to make a significant noise, but we could reach the stage where a man with a laptop is going to have the same issues a mechanic trying to sort out a DPF filter currently has, especially if manufacturers start to reduce the battery warranty to 3 or 4 years in line with legacy car warranties.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
I used to think that but having just paid over £5K for a 12 year old Fiesta for my daughter. A car that goes out of production this week to be replaced by a BEV I can see there being a strong used market for good value, cheap to insure, cheap to tax, fuel efficient small cars for a long time to come because new supply is going to start to dry up. The people with low incomes and no off street parking are not going to be that tempted by BEV's any time soon unless significant carrots or sticks are applied.
So I think it very much depends what ICE car. Anyone buying a basic petrol Corsa or Fiesta I think will be just fine in 3 years. A 3.0 SUV maybe not so great?
Jason71
Well-Known Member
There are a lot of things to go wrong with ICE but they tend to fail incrementally in manageable chunks, alternator, starter motor, Lambda sensor. Death by 1000 manageable cuts if you like.
Sure catastrophic engine or gearbox failures do occur but are rare so its not often someone suddenly is facing putting in a whole new engine unless its a very high mileage car.
What concerns me is that with EV's, at present, it either works or you need a whole new battery or drive unit which are ruinously expensive. Maybe in time replacing a battery module or fixing a drive unit will become common place ( though not if Tesla's structural battery pack catches on!) but until then owning a BEV out of warrantee feels a bit like playing Russian roulette
diesels, especially new ones, have DPFs. if van is used in the town/city and never sees motorway, then it means that dpf cannot kick-start the regen. means that dpf will become blocked and it will cause shitloads of issues.
however, saying that, the second hand market will always be there. and I see a lot of people will be interested in having ICE
Nah.. I used to think that, but I've been driving BEVs since Q1 2019 and the public non-Tesla charging infrastructure has barely improved since then. In places it's gone backwards, both in terms of coverage, reliability and price.
Onstreet charging is still nowhere ot be found, except a couple of trials here and there. No meaningful plan or strategy exists to facilitate people sorting their own charging (cables across pavements), councils are all over the place in terms of guidance. People are just left to deal with it themselves, which is a real barrier to entry.
The Government clearly aren't really that serious about meeting the 2030 target for no more ICE sales, for a variety of reasons. It's arguable whether there is even the money there with things being what they are for local authorities to pursue (or be compelled to) this stuff at the sort of scale that is actually necessary for widespread EV usage to be a thing.
I think BEVs are going to be the preserve of well-to-do people with driveways, etc, or those prepared to leech off of infrastructure designed for visitors, etc (e.g. supermarket chargers) for the forseeable future.
Teslas fail incrementally too. Sure you occasionally get new battery packs needed, but i see no difference in failure modes between ice and EV. All parts fail.
As an aside there are instruction in the service manual for replacing a structural battery pack.
Replacing a structural pack isn’t the issue. Repairing it is, so the only option is to replace it for £15k+. When a car is 8 years old and only worth <£20k that‘s a big risk.
If an ICE fails you obtain a new piston, crank, camshaft etc and fix it without the cost of an entire new engine.
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
Much of that might be UK-specific/worse problems. Without getting into politics, I think the practical aspects of many UK things aren't subject to overarching plans, it's much more muddle-through, local responsibilities (often unfunded) and soundbites at every level. EV parking in London is devolved to local councils and it makes it a pain. Every car park in most towns seem to have different regulations. A few towns have standardised which helps visitors and residents alike (not just EV, overall).
Cables/street charging should be national as otherwise it's confusing when visiting. France has initiatives for solar canopies, chargers in car parks.
This discombobulation might slow BEV takeup, as will the nonstop propaganda against EVs. Other countries may have to lead the way. Norway has many people living in apartments, maybe old houses near the coast without driveways. Eventually, these will make their way here. Things can change - just slow now.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
I think most people on here agree that BEV's are the future and it will happen....in time. The premise here though was will BEV adoption mean that someone buying a new ICE today be FUBAR'd in 3 years when they come to sell because no one will want their old ICE car and I think the general consensus now is nope.
Twelve months ago when used EV's were flying off the forecourt for almost new money I might have agree'd but now I think it is going to take a bit longer...
i would disagree that situation barely changes.
My small town had 4 pod point 7 kw chargers for like 4 years... and suddenly, on top of that, there is 4 x 140 kw at nearest services (140 kw shared by 2 points) and then another 120 kw at nearest tesco.
My small town had 4 pod point 7 kw chargers for like 4 years... and suddenly, on top of that, there is 4 x 140 kw at nearest services (140 kw shared by 2 points) and then another 120 kw at nearest tesco.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
Yeah and based on a sample of my household UK EV adoption rates are at 50%
You are still statistically insignificant (and so is your small town). sorry
That is too small a sample size from which to infer anything about the UK's general EV adoption / readiness.
but the thing is that I see new sites popping all over the place.
the only thing is i struggle to understand, why each and every bloody petrol garage does not have at least 50KW charger placed near the pump/water station. it is simple and easy with space..
New sites at services and on or very near motorways or major roads, maybe.
I haven't seen any real improvement in local infrastructure. Generally speaking it seems to be the case that you might find the odd charger here and there, maybe a couple that can service two cars at once, but nothing like the sort of provision like supercharger sites, etc. Whenever I drive anywhere it's a gamble whether I'll be able to charge when I get there - if the equipment isn't out of order, or occupied.
Worse, there's no overarching requirement (legislation) for places to implement charging facilities. Should it not be the case that any new shopping centre, or car park, etc should have a minimum number of charge points? There should imo be legislation around EV charging spaces too - i.e. like disabled spaces where misuse is prosecuted.
Would agree that it seems odd that petrol stations don't all have at least one rapid on site, it's an extremely logical place for them.
I haven't seen any real improvement in local infrastructure. Generally speaking it seems to be the case that you might find the odd charger here and there, maybe a couple that can service two cars at once, but nothing like the sort of provision like supercharger sites, etc. Whenever I drive anywhere it's a gamble whether I'll be able to charge when I get there - if the equipment isn't out of order, or occupied.
Worse, there's no overarching requirement (legislation) for places to implement charging facilities. Should it not be the case that any new shopping centre, or car park, etc should have a minimum number of charge points? There should imo be legislation around EV charging spaces too - i.e. like disabled spaces where misuse is prosecuted.
Would agree that it seems odd that petrol stations don't all have at least one rapid on site, it's an extremely logical place for them.
MrBadger
Badger out
Parked up a few weeks ago in Barnes, West London. No signage that I noticed, and seeing one Tesla plugged in was the only clue, but looked like semi decent proportion of the whole road was full of EV charge points built into lamp posts.
Didn’t need to charge so didn’t notice the charge provider.
So just because you don’t see charge points doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. Inconspicuous, exactly how it should be.
Looks like it might be
ubitricity.com
48p/kWh - not far off our home peak rate until start of month.
Didn’t need to charge so didn’t notice the charge provider.
So just because you don’t see charge points doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. Inconspicuous, exactly how it should be.
Looks like it might be
AC Lamppost Chargers
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ubitricity.com
48p/kWh - not far off our home peak rate until start of month.
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