Is Electrify America TRYING to Ruin EVs and Adoption!?

[CyberGus]

Tesla should buy EA for their real estate and power hookups, and replace all the crap EA hardware with drop-in prefab Superchargers. If only half include a Magic Dock, then it'll be a coverage and reliability improvement for CCS users.

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla should buy EA for their real estate and power hookups, and replace all the crap EA hardware with drop-in prefab Superchargers. If only half include a Magic Dock, then it'll be a coverage and reliability improvement for CCS users.

If only that would happen. Of course, I don't know that most EA sites would lend themselves to the pre-fab modules. But really Tesla would probably want to at least double the stall count at each site anyhow, so a whole site redesign would be needed, with the possibility of getting more parking stalls allocated by the site host.

It would help if Tesla would update the pre-fab modules to be V4 with longer cables and to support 800+v, but really even the V3 version would likely be better, and result is faster charges, for most users.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

EA was created by VW as punishment for the dieselgate scandal. They were ordered to build EV chargers. There's no requirement that the chargers actually work. They are doing the minimum required.

VW unveils how it will spend its $2 billion for electric vehicle infrastructure from the Dieselgate settlement

As part of its court settlement with the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)...

electrek.co

The company will make four $500 million investments into Electrify America every 30 months and it must obtain approval from CARB and the EPA, if it still exist at that point, before spending the money.

The plans have to be approved by the EPA and CARB.

Vague reference.

Cycle 1:

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2017-04/documents/nationalzevinvestmentplan.pdf

2.2.1.4. Maintenance plan for ZEV infrastructure
Electrify America will issue RFPs to external vendors to ensure that periodic
maintenance will be available across the network for 10 years after the Effective Date to enable
the hardware to remain operational over the entire 10 year period. Furthermore, contract
terms negotiated after completion of the RFP process will ensure that the charging equipment
is marked with a toll-free customer service hotline available 24/7 and that this number will be
answered by a live operator if any maintenance issue should arise. Additionally, service
response time metrics will be tracked.

I think the EPA was aware of problems so wanted more. We now get a 72 hour fix period with a bit of weasel-wording:

Cycle 2:

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-02/documents/cycle2-nationalzevinvestmentplan.pdf

3.5.Maintenance Plan for Infrastructure
Electrify America’s mission to build a comprehensive, technologically-advanced and customer-
centric charging network requires that equipment be maintained to industry-leading standards,
customer support is available when needed, and stations are repaired in a timely manner when issues
occur. Regardless of whether maintenance is performed in house or by a contractor, Electrify America
has ensured contractual requirements to reasonably resolve issues with all stations within a maximum
of 72 hours.
To meet these expectations, Electrify America conducted a competitive bid process and selected
a vendor to provide maintenance for all Electrify America DCFC stations nationwide. This agreement
includes routine preventative, campaign, and emergency maintenance for all stations through the
contract period. Prior to the conclusion of the contract, or as necessary, Electrify America will solicit
competitive bids to ensure no lapses in maintenance coverage for 10 years from the Partial Consent
Decree effective date. In addition, all Cycle 2 stations will be marked with a toll-free customer service
hotline. Should a customer encounter any issues fueling at an Electrify America station, the 24/7
Customer Contact Center will be available to provide support. Agents and operators have access to real-
time station status information and can perform tasks such as reviewing unit performance history,
initiating a charge, resetting a charger, or other issue resolution tasks

OK, now they're worried, better give more explanation of what they're planning to do about it ...

Cycle 3 (June 2021):

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/assets/pdf/cycle3_investment_plan_epa.1aa21b9b.pdf/

4.8 Maintenance Plan for Infrastructure
Electrify America recognizes that customer experience is a critical element to PEV adoption and is
committed to industry-leading customer service and station maintenance and repair. To this end,
Electrify America has established contractual requirements to reasonably resolve critical issues with all
stations within a maximum of 72 hours.

At Electrify America, maintenance and customer experience actually starts long before chargers and
technology are deployed in the public. Our Center of Excellence lab allows our team to test new
hardware and software releases before they roll out nationwide. In addition, we work closely with
partners from nearly all automotive manufacturers to test upcoming vehicles before they hit the
market, and ensure any charging related bugs are addressed prior to a customer reaching our station.
Electrify America also invests significant resources in training our staff and the staff of our vendors. We
have developed a curriculum to teach technicians how to safely and effectively perform both routine
preventative and emergent maintenance on ZEVs. While the specific details of this program are
proprietary, this program is a critical element in providing industry-leading service.
All routine preventative, campaign, and emergency maintenance is conducted by a contractor we
selected through a competitive bid process. Prior to the conclusion of the contract, or as necessary,
Electrify America will solicit competitive bids to ensure no lapses in maintenance coverage for 10 years
from the Partial Consent Decree effective date. In addition, all public Cycle 3 stations will be marked
with a toll-free customer service hotline. Since our inception in 2017, our Contact Center has received
repeated praise from consumers for its customer service, and should any customers encounter issues
charging at an Electrify America station, the contact center will be able to provide support. Agents and
operators have access to real-time station status information and can perform tasks such as reviewing
unit performance history, initiating a charge, resetting a charger, or other issue resolution tasks. The
Contact Center is able to resolve the majority of customer-related issues by receiving and triaging phone
calls from customers. In 2020, the Customer Support Center handled 47,477 calls, a 79% increase from
the call volume in 2019, and the average wait time to speak with a Charging Specialist was just five
seconds. In 2020, the average call length was just under nine minutes. For non-English speaking
customers, a translation line 3-way service is available to agents to translate between the customer and
the agent.
For customer issues that require further technical assistance, Contact Center agents work with Electrify
America’s Network Operations Center (NOC) to identify a solution for the customer. The NOC team
conducts root-cause analysis of customer issues, develops solutions with hardware manufacturers,
functionally operates and monitors charging assets, supports maintenance service personnel, manages
field maintenance deliverables, drives key performance metrics, reports network trends, and works to
maximize the value of equipment and service warranties.

I look forward to seeing how big the Cycle 4 maintenance section is.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Tesla should buy EA for their real estate and power hookups, and replace all the crap EA hardware with drop-in prefab Superchargers. If only half include a Magic Dock, then it'll be a coverage and reliability improvement for CCS users.

There is some overlap they could sell off. I know of at least a handful of locations on the East Coast that are in the same parking lots, or within a mile of each other.

 

[MP3Mike]

There is some overlap they could sell off. I know of at least a handful of locations on the East Coast that are in the same parking lots, or within a mile of each other.

Do those locations need more capacity or redundancy? (Especially if they went with V4 for the replacements.)

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Do those locations need more capacity or redundancy? (Especially if they went with V4 for the replacements.)

If they're wiping out EA, I'd go with capacity.

Maybe they could spin those off, or maybe someone like Walmart gets in the game, since many EA chargers are already in their parking lots.

 

[beatle]

or maybe someone like Walmart gets in the game, since many EA chargers are already in their parking lots.

God, I hope not. Putting DCFCs in Walmart parking lots was and is a terrible idea. They're not all open 24 hours a day, and if you need to use the bathroom during operating hours, you've got to hike into the back of the store. If you want food, you've got to be okay with stale donuts from the bakery case, a full size bag of chips from the grocery aisle, or a candy bar from the register. There's no single serving food available to order. While it's true that not all superchargers are in ideal locations (hotels, malls) Tesla's partnership with Sheetz and Wawa have been great for traveling resources. I'd wager it's a nice symbiotic relationship since I almost always buy something while I pull in to charge for 15-30 minutes. I almost never bought anything while filling up any of my gas vehicles.

 

[Rocky_H]

If you want food, you've got to be okay with stale donuts from the bakery case, a full size bag of chips from the grocery aisle, or a candy bar from the register. There's no single serving food available to order.

What in the world? I generally don't like Wal-Mart, but most of this doesn't seem right. Every Wal-Mart I see has a deli area with things you can grab like sandwiches or potato salad or the protein things with hard boiled eggs and meat and cheese.

ADD: Last time we stopped at a Wal-Mart for charging, my wife grabbed a pack of hummus and some carrot sticks.

 

[CyberGus]

Last time I stopped for Supercharging was at IKEA. I got the Swedish meatballs

 

[SVMike]

God, I hope not. Putting DCFCs in Walmart parking lots was and is a terrible idea. They're not all open 24 hours a day,

I hope they do put DCFC at Walmarts. And at Targets and at McDonalds, N-and-out , and everywhere else.
It is actually best at a place with a big parking lot since it is more likely that they won't be ICEd.

And who cares about the 24 hrs? Lots of Superchargers are at places not open 24 hrs.
Hiking to the restroom at back of the store is really a first world problem, I guess.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

What in the world? I generally don't like Wal-Mart, but most of this doesn't seem right. Every Wal-Mart I see has a deli area with things you can grab like sandwiches or potato salad or the protein things with hard boiled eggs and meat and cheese.

ADD: Last time we stopped at a Wal-Mart for charging, my wife grabbed a pack of hummus and some carrot sticks.

I had an ID4, briefly, before coming back. Walmarts aren't that bad, and to be fair, pre-pandemic, many were open 24/7. Now, most close at 11, but EA couldn't have foreseen that fundamental shift in how we do business.

The times I've stopped at a Walmart for charging were always convenient. But you preplan that stuff anyway. Your WM stop will be sundries and restrooms. Your "gourmet" meals aren't coming from there.

 

[beatle]

I hope they do put DCFC at Walmarts. And at Targets and at McDonalds, N-and-out , and everywhere else.
It is actually best at a place with a big parking lot since it is more likely that they won't be ICEd.

And who cares about the 24 hrs? Lots of Superchargers are at places not open 24 hrs.
Hiking to the restroom at back of the store is really a first world problem, I guess.

Of course it would be nice to have DCFC everywhere, but right now they're still sparse, and their deployment is still relatively slow. If faced with a choice between having a DCFC in a suboptimal place and not having one at all, of course I'd take one anywhere, as would probably anyone. I used to stop at one at Patrick Henry Mall in Newport News every Christmas Eve on the way to visit family. It was a real boon to be able to get home in my 2015 in the cold. I also had to walk 1/4 mile to a nearby hotel to use the restroom, but I was glad to have the station vs. none. My point is that when choosing where to build a DCFC, they should choose to put them in places with good travel resources.

 

[beatle]

What in the world? I generally don't like Wal-Mart, but most of this doesn't seem right. Every Wal-Mart I see has a deli area with things you can grab like sandwiches or potato salad or the protein things with hard boiled eggs and meat and cheese.

ADD: Last time we stopped at a Wal-Mart for charging, my wife grabbed a pack of hummus and some carrot sticks.

That wasn't my experience charging my Lightning. Not all Wal-Marts are created equal. The Super Centers have better choices.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

With Ford and now GM on the NACS standard, EA is on borrowed time now, anyway

 

[MP3Mike]

With Ford and now GM on the NACS standard, EA is on borrowed time now, anyway

Nah, they will just continue to eat up VW/federal funding. They will probably go to installing dual cable stalls with CCS/NACS. (Just after their "next gen" units went to having only a single cable.)

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Nah, they will just continue to eat up VW/federal funding. They will probably go to installing dual cable stalls with CCS/NACS. (Just after their "next gen" units went to having only a single cable.)

I don't know, once Hyundai/Kia get their factory up and running and are producing NA-spec EVs here (likely with the NACS port), VW will be the only ones left in any real numbers on EA. Rivian and Lucid will have some decisions to make at that point.

(Which makes Lucid's guerilla marketing campaign at Superchargers that much funnier in hindsight)

 

[MP3Mike]

VW will be the only ones left in any real numbers on EA. Rivian and Lucid will have some decisions to make at that point.

What about Stellantis, Polestar/Volvo, BMW, MB, etc. Stellantis in a good spot because they haven't really started shipping anything yet, so they can make their new RAM truck come with NACS from the start. I think they all have a decision to make...

I think Rivian is likely in a bad spot because Tesla is still in the process of suing them over alleged IP theft. Maybe if they settled that Tesla would let them use the Superchargers. (They could switch to the NACS inlet anyhow, since that is an open standard.)

 

[beatle]

What about Stellantis, Polestar/Volvo, BMW, MB, etc. Stellantis in a good spot because they haven't really started shipping anything yet, so they can make their new RAM truck come with NACS from the start. I think they all have a decision to make...

I think Rivian is likely in a bad spot because Tesla is still in the process of suing them over alleged IP theft. Maybe if they settled that Tesla would let them use the Superchargers. (They could switch to the NACS inlet anyhow, since that is an open standard.)

It seems like the lead time to shift a vehicle over to NACS is pretty long. At least it seems to be for Ford and GM who aren't going to have NACS ports for another 2 years. Logically it seems that adapting to a smaller port would be easier, but I guess that's their timeline.

 

[mspohr]

It seems like the lead time to shift a vehicle over to NACS is pretty long. At least it seems to be for Ford and GM who aren't going to have NACS ports for another 2 years. Logically it seems that adapting to a smaller port would be easier, but I guess that's their timeline.

Tesla makes changes daily. Everyone else takes years.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

It seems like the lead time to shift a vehicle over to NACS is pretty long. At least it seems to be for Ford and GM who aren't going to have NACS ports for another 2 years. Logically it seems that adapting to a smaller port would be easier, but I guess that's their timeline.

I'm guessing it's a supply chain thing. Who is building the ports? Gm and Ford respectively? Or are they purchasing pre-made? if tesla was smart, they'd spin up production of the ports and make money on that end too.